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Why is the Ka-50 being simulated?


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First off, I was going to post in this thread.

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=15615

But I didn't want to risk a flame war starting there; I still do not want one here, but just in case I started a new topic.

 

Anyway, that other thread had these two quotes by Jane's, "By late 2004, it was being presumed that no further production of Ka-50s would take place, the Russian Air Forces having, instead, chosen Mil Mi-28 as main attack helicopter, backed by smaller number of Kamov Ka-52s."

 

"Four for Russian Army service trials, plus eight flying prototype and pre-series helicopters; all delivered. Further 10 ordered in 1997 budget and six in 1998, of which first three were due for delivery before end of 1998; initial helicopter eventually completed in June 1999, two more being due by mid-2000. By early 2004, it was still unclear if helicopters from the first batch of 10 had been delivered to Army Aviation. Two operational Ka-50s shown at Moscow Salon in August 2001 may have been repainted trials aircraft. One army helicopter lost in accident, 17 June 1998; attributed to rotor clash."

 

If I understood Jane's assesment correctly, my question is why are they making a simulation of the Ka-50 if there are only a handful (like 32 total built) of them in the world; and they are discontinued because the Mi-28 was chosen as the main attack helicopter? Shouldn't they simulate a piece of equipment that is fairly widespread and actually likely to see a lot of combat? Maybe the Mi-28 or AH-64A/D? Prior to reading this article, I assumed that because the Ka-50 was being simulated, it was the latest and greatest Russian helo design that would lead Russia into the next century.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to buying the game because it will be a good quality sim of an under simed genre, helos. But, I'm sure there is something I am missing. This is not a flame; but please enlighten me why the Ka-50 was chosen to be simulated! Thanks

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In short, There is a limitation in the modelling of twin seaters in Lock-on (read You can’t) so no flyable Mi-28, The Ka-50 is a single seater, The weapon systems in the Ka-50 have a commonality with the Su-25T ShKval + Vikhr, the Ka-50 has been in combat in Chechnya and IIRC there is also a TV series showing in Russia at the moment staring the Ka-50 which is quite popular.

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In short, There is a limitation in the modelling of twin seaters in Lock-on (read You can’t) so no flyable Mi-28, The Ka-50 is a single seater, The weapon systems in the Ka-50 have a commonality with the Su-25T ShKval + Vikhr, the Ka-50 has been in combat in Chechnya and IIRC there is also a TV series showing in Russia at the moment staring the Ka-50 which is quite popular.

 

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. It's all coming together...

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In short, There is a limitation in the modelling of twin seaters in Lock-on (read You can’t)

 

"Can't"? "Won't" is actually correct. Or maybe "not economically feasible". ED could model an AWACS with every station playable, but the work required would likely be too time consuming for the payoff. It's about the rubles.

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If they had to model the most popular, combat proven and world famous helicopter, that would be the Mi-24. There are thousands produced and still in service, fighting everywhere in the world. Futhermore it's still upgrading. But this was never an essential criteria. Take the Su-25T- how many have been built and are in service?

But I would rather prefer the Ka-50 instead of Mi-24. In frist place it's because of the coaxial rotor design whose big fan I am:D

 

As for online play- helicopter vs. jet fighter sounds rediculous to me. Helos in multiplayer do make sense only in coop missions, where fighters can only provide clear sky for them. In general, this helicopter adds many tactical outcomes but head-to-head helo vs. fighter is not one of them.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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However you can combine them with fighters and attack fighters to accomplish objectives in adversarial multiplay ... the helo pilots won't necessarily have it easy, but hey ... People used to complain about the 25/25T being easy prey.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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i wonder if ubi takes lock on back will that be a good thing?

 

Oh the irony! After all the anti-UbiSoft messages on this board and elsewhere, now suddenly we look to them with nostalgia - our only protectors against Russian anti-piracy schemes. :)

 

I don't have an opinion, but I think it's such a provoking question, I'm giving you rep.

 

Yes, let UbiSoft's critics go crawling back to them, asking forgiveness for their flames, begging for their kind warm mantle of corporate protection against StarForce... :)

 

-SK

 

P.S. I want the MiG-29K

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I think that, apart from the "single seater" and "Shkval/Vikhr", the Ka-50 was chosen because it is an interesting helicopter with lots of unique design features.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

 

P.S. a dynamic campaign would never work without an F-15E.

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JJ

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I think that, apart from the "single seater" and "Shkval/Vikhr", the Ka-50 was chosen because it is an interesting helicopter with lots of unique design features.

 

Still it is interesting that ED chosed to model a helo that operates so very different compared to fixed wing aircraft. I am talking about the much greather depth of environmental modeling for helos, as well as completly new AI routines. It could be argued that a new CAS or A-A fixed wing aircraft modeled with the same depth would need less resources because work could be based in the already existing CAS or A-A environment.

On the other hand it is perhaps better that ED is forced to write the helicopter AI almost from scratch, because they have the chance to do it better this time. A new fixed wing aircraft could tempt to leave the existing AI as is, because it basicaly works.

 

All in all the Ka-50 is certainly a interesting choice and I would love to hear more of the motivation of ED to simulate that particular aircraft.

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TV series showing in Russia at the moment staring the Ka-50 which is quite popular.

What's the name of the show and on which channel I can watch that?

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i wonder if ubi takes lock on back will that be a good thing? More money = better projects? And get rid of starforce :smilewink:

My thoughts first I don't mind starforce may be I'm the exception.

Next about more cahs and more projects I'd like that as well however the question is what will the terms be? In an ideal world ED would team up with some other developers. So perhaps ED would foucus on Russian AC while some one else took the task of Nato craft and some one else specialised in Asia. I don't know what stops this from happening probably money..

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yea i don't mind starforce, i just said that because that usually turn away some new pilots due to "horror" stories. Anyway, i think if ubi took back lock on we will probably see a more "balance" of aircraft between western and eastern aircraft because i think ED added in the A-10 and the F-15 was because ubi told them to. Although i am all in favor of russian planes, improvement on the eagle would be nice, not to mention my beloved flanker.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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What's the name of the show and on which channel I can watch that?

 

Its was actually a movie, not a show. "Black Shark" was the name and it isn't worth looking for, except all the helicopter footage. Funny thing, when me and my dad saw it many years a go (back in Russia, I think), when they showed footage of the Shkval targeting display, he said that they probably recorded the graphic from some cheapo video camera view finder. Turned out it was real!

- EB

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Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer.

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yea i don't mind starforce, i just said that because that usually turn away some new pilots due to "horror" stories. Anyway, i think if ubi took back lock on we will probably see a more "balance" of aircraft between western and eastern aircraft because i think ED added in the A-10 and the F-15 was because ubi told them to. Although i am all in favor of russian planes, improvement on the eagle would be nice, not to mention my beloved flanker.

I'd agree on this I love having Russian AC but at the end of the day ballance is nice IMHO I am looking forwardto the F-16..that would be a good line up..

SU-25 A-10

SU-25T A-10C

KA-50 AH-64

SU-27 F-15

SU-30 F-15E and Tornado

SU-33 F-14

MiG-29 F-16 Mirage

Mig-29K F-18 Naval Mirage

Yak-38 V Harrier GR Mk _ AKA AV-8

and

Mig-23/27 and F-4E

:pilotfly: The question is how big will ED need to be to do this?

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Its was actually a movie, not a show. "Black Shark" was the name and it isn't worth looking for, except all the helicopter footage. Funny thing, when me and my dad saw it many years a go (back in Russia, I think), when they showed footage of the Shkval targeting display, he said that they probably recorded the graphic from some cheapo video camera view finder. Turned out it was real!

I'll have to check it out....a can't be any worse than the Apachee movie with Tommy Lee Jones forgot the name of that one.:P

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Guest IguanaKing

Don't forget "Blue Thunder" and "Airwolf". :D Although, "Blue Thunder" gave us our first glimpse at IHADDS, and even though the movie was supposedly modelled on the AH-64...it was just an Aerospatiale Gazelle with a lot of costume jewelry. :pilotfly:

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However you can combine them with fighters and attack fighters to accomplish objectives in adversarial multiplay ... the helo pilots won't necessarily have it easy, but hey ... People used to complain about the 25/25T being easy prey.

 

Had those people any fighter sweep allies? CAS aircraft, be it plane or helicopter, usualy go into battle after the fighters have cleared the sky for them and the SEAD flights have suppressed enemy's AD. They are heavy armoured to resist ground fire but they are not intended to participate in an air combat. True, they have a couple of AAMs for selfdefense, but it's very unlikely to use'em against enemy fighters. Those missiles would come in hand in case they meet enemy ground pounders.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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