Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[TomOnSteam]

Well, I just discovered that the controllers are seen as gloves inside DCS, so I can only imagine what is coming!!

 

Wow OK, well starting up the aircraft will really be something! Of course it'll be tricky to use when flying though (having to pick up a controller, flip switches, and put it down again). But it's a fantastic start!

[S3NTRY11]

Of course it'll be tricky to use when flying though (having to pick up a controller, flip switches, and put it down again).

I hear that a lot, and I used to think the same, but then I realised I need to do the same with a mouse. I am thinking (yet to be proven, obviously) motion controllers will be far more intuitive, especially if we can see a virtual representation, as gloves for example.

 

We'll find out soon enough!

[smirkza]

I hear that a lot, and I used to think the same, but then I realised I need to do the same with a mouse. I am thinking (yet to be proven, obviously) motion controllers will be far more intuitive, especially if we can see a virtual representation, as gloves for example.

 

We'll find out soon enough!

 

I agree, particularly as the controllers are visible in game even when not held. Easy to pick up and put down again.

 

I haven't seen any posts anywhere though saying DCS is going to be using motion controllers this way. I'm thinking the sighting might have been FSX or P3D instead and mistaken for DCS?

 

Would love to be wrong, mind.

 

Now, after trying the Leap Motion in FSX for a while I can say one of the hardest parts to get right is knowing precisely when your finger is touching a dial/switch without haptic feedback. If you use a motion controller instead I can see two ways of cueing your brain in to recognising you are in the right place.

 

1.) Use the vibration motors inside the controller to give a physical hint you are touching something. I haven't been able to try this to see if it would work or not but in theory it could be ok.

 

2.) My preferred option is to have a small target appear on the control panels as your VR hand draws near (as if drawn by a laser shone at the panel). The nearer your hand gets to the surface of the control panel the smaller the target gets, until when you're touching the panel the circle turns red, or flashes or some other indicator that you're in position. A little practice and you could use this key to quickly hit the right switch. Then the haptic feedback can be used to signify the fact you have flipped the switch.

 

The real joy of course is that the devs can try both, or a thousand other ways of using this new tech until they find something that works perfectly. As long as people are willing to say "We won't know until we try" then VR can move onwards until we find ourselves at a near perfect simulation. That's one of the keys to VR. You have to leave your previous experiences of how to interact with computer tech behind and be willing to try things that are crazy, or didn't work before, or are simply so left field they have no right working (like the Omni).

 

Fun times!

 

Cheers,

 

Smirks

[joji]

guys how about the screen door effect? Are you able to spot targets at long distance?

[Chivas]

guys how about the screen door effect? Are you able to spot targets at long distance?

 

That's the million dollar question that DCS has avoided, and Flyinside didn't mention in their last article. I had hopes for the new displays ,and optics, but after hearing racing/space simmers mention that distant objects appear blurry its doubtful. Flight sims are starting to deploy options like larger decals to depict distant aircraft. Personally I've gone with the Rift because of its slightly better display/optics/ATWsoftware/comfort./larger optic sweetspot, and more square FOV, but its still not likely to be good enough for distant objects. BUT I just may be able to spot a distant enemy slightly sooner than my Vive counterpart. ;)

[OldE24]

That's the million dollar question that DCS has avoided, and Flyinside didn't mention in their last article. I had hopes for the new displays ,and optics, but after hearing racing/space simmers mention that distant objects appear blurry its doubtful. Flight sims are starting to deploy options like larger decals to depict distant aircraft. Personally I've gone with the Rift because of its slightly better display/optics/ATWsoftware/comfort./larger optic sweetspot, and more square FOV, but its still not likely to be good enough for distant objects. BUT I just may be able to spot a distant enemy slightly sooner than my Vive counterpart. ;)

 

well from how they put it you have a Larger FOV in VIVE and in theroy because of this you COULD get more SDE, but it is a million dollar question. i would assume it's a tradeoff in the optics smaller FOV less SDE.

[Hershberg]

A heads up, to save some of you some grief, when your setting up your HTC Vive using the Vive set up installer, it'll tell you to set up the room, lighthouses, etc. When you set up the lighthouse units, and have them plugged in and coded correctly, be sure your set your headset and controllers in the middle where the lighthouse can see them before starting SteamVR. The directions don't specifically say to do such. I had mine sitting on the table, out of sight from the lighthouses, and got errors. Other than that, it's very straightforward.

Also, as I have the Pre, I needed to update the firmware, which again, follow the directions. Don't know about the consumer units as I don't have mine yet.

 

Good to know!

 

Ill be setting up in a couple hours when I get home from work. For cockpit sims like DCS, I assume you do not have to re position the lighthouses at all correct? Just keep in the corners same as roomscale?

[Arctic]

Well, I just discovered that the controllers are seen as gloves inside DCS, so I can only imagine what is coming!!

 

yeah, please upload a screenshot of that:D:thumbup:

[S3NTRY11]

For cockpit sims like DCS, I assume you do not have to re position the lighthouses at all correct? Just keep in the corners same as roomscale?

If your gear is within the tracking volume, no need to change anything.

[rcmodels]

Anyone gotten it running? I tried firing up the game with the headset running and was unable to get it to display anything, game also failed to load properly on my monitor. Is there a setting i need to enable in the game prior to trying it with the headset?

[asparagin]

..

 

Thanks for the update DE. Do you mind posting your setup and commenting on your fps in DCS?

 

Regards,

A

[Corbett1403]

Can I ask as we are having a discussion on the oculus rift thread are you experiencing blur when looking straight in the centre on the lens how does the hud look and mfd's. Are they clear too see

[S3NTRY11]

Can I ask as we are having a discussion on the oculus rift thread are you experiencing blur when looking straight in the centre on the lens how does the hud look and mfd's. Are they clear too see

The sweet-spot for the Vive vs the DK2 is definitely larger... but, this is offset in a negative way that looking away from centre becomes more blurry sooner than it was in the DK2.

 

MFDs are fine, really - TGP is ok, TAD is a little tougher in the detail. HUD is fine for airspeed, but not so great for waypoint info.

 

No resolution miracles here, folks, but the gauges and dials are incrementally more readable than they were in the DK2. CDU/warning panel require some serious lean-in to be legible.

 

I'll write something more substantial up when I get the chance, but just had a quick run through DCS 1.5 and 2 in the A10C.

 

Valve's reprojection works pretty great. I still had momentary stutters here and there, but 1.5 mostly ran well.

 

Needed to disable V-SYNC to get rid of major stuttering, and I'm guessing, that also allows the reprojection to do its work, somehow.

[Corbett1403]

Thanks look forward to hearing your thoughts

[hansangb]

S3NTRY11,

What about the small forward facing camera. I was thinking of using that to use my physical switches that I'm building. I'm not too concern about ruining the VR experience. Is the small camera usable in that way?

 

thnx

[hansangb]

Same question to you DE. Is the front facing camera (small Pic-in-Pic mode) usable for seeing the physical world?

 

hsb

[cichlidfan]

You can manually enter the resolution in DCS, even though it isn't obvious.

[hansangb]

Meaning you can just type over whatever is listed in the resolution setting. You don't have to use the drop down to choose the resolution.

[rcmodels]

Yes, same here, the center area is clear, and a large enough of an area, if I look to the parameter, it is blurry, but, its kind of a strain to do so.

 

Also, with DCS, I'm having a difficulty with jutter, and it seams as if the resolution in DCS is not correct compared with the other SteamVR demo's.

 

Maybe you could help me out S3NTRY11, or anyone else please?

 

I'm running with SteamVR on, with the Device, direct mode checked.

In this mode, the Vive does not show as a second monitor in Windows10 display properties, and of course, in DCS World settings tab, the Vive's native resolution of 2160 x 1200 is not listed. Is this correct. (I have turned all DCS settings to low)?

 

I've also tried with SteamVR, Device, Direct mode unchecked. Then the vive does show as a second monitor in Window10 display settings, with the correct resolution. But, still in the DCS World Settings, tab, the Vive's native resolution is not listed.

 

Any help please? Am I overlooking something obvious?

 

 

I couldn't find a way in game to adjust the resolution. I finally got it running last night and... wow. It's amazing to actually sit in the cockpit. I flew the F86 an the F15 for a little bit. Huds on both are pretty good. Trying to distinguish switches isn't as easy as I thought, maybe the in game resolution is at play here? But not sure.

 

Running on a 390 I definitely had to set it to low.

[cichlidfan]

Thanks cichlidfan, could you bear with me please. What is the process and file / file location for doing so?

 

You don't have to edit a file. Just click in the resolution field, in DCS Options, and enter the correct value.

 

It is possible to edit the default options.lua and add your desired resolution to the pulldown but I don't have the file in front of me to refer to and I don't recall the details.

[hansangb]

You don't have to edit a file. Just click in the resolution field, in DCS Options, and enter the correct value.

 

It is possible to edit the default options.lua and add your desired resolution to the pulldown but I don't have the file in front of me to refer to and I don't recall the details.

 

 

It's here:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Config\MonitorSetup\

 

 

Explanation of the contents of the LUA that I attached is as follows:

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('HSBMFD1');

 

/* Note that the file name doesn't really matter. DCS will read the above "name= " and will display it CONFIGURATION section. */

 

Description = '3 Screens and L-R MultiMFD'

Viewports =

{

Center =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = 5760;

height = 1200;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = 4.8;

},

 

 

 

}

 

UIMainView = Viewports.Center

[cichlidfan]

@hansangb

 

That has nothing to do with the resolution pulldown. That is for the camera definition, or whatever that field is called.

[liq3]

60 FPS limit on consumer Vive

 

Yeh basically the title. FPS doesn't go above 60, even in the menu. Completely unplayable on a Vive because the judder is atrocious. Running version 1.5, Windows 10, 980Ti, i5-3570k. Just checked, GPU usage is 50%, CPU is 25%~.

 

On a side note, the game won't start normally now too, only starts in VR mode.

[S3NTRY11]

S3NTRY11,

What about the small forward facing camera. I was thinking of using that to use my physical switches that I'm building. I'm not too concern about ruining the VR experience. Is the small camera usable in that way?

 

thnx

 

I haven't used the camera in any serious way as yet, in fact I haven't been able to figure out how to get "tron mode" going yet. Must be in the settings somewhere. I was under the impression that it was just always available.

I'll see if I can work it out. Won't be until tomorrow though, unfortunately.

 

Not to rain on your parade, but I get the feeling that decent integration of the camera to achieve what you're after may require dev work on the engine side. ie ED would have to work some magic, or you'd just have to switch to chaperone mode all the time which may be frustrating. Not too sure at this stage.

[S3NTRY11]

Also, with DCS, I'm having a difficulty with jutter, and it seams as if the resolution in DCS is not correct compared with the other SteamVR demo's.

 

Maybe you could help me out S3NTRY11, or anyone else please?

So I turned on the framerate tracker and noticed that I was never at 90 fps, but I was floating on or just under 45 which is a clear indication that reprojection is in effect. It was stuttering madly. That's when I turned V-SYNC off and things became buttery smooth with occasional, but bearable blips in framerate.

 

Not sure I can offer more advice than that at this stage. I've lowered all but textures to minimum until I get time to tweak.

I'm running with SteamVR on, with the Device, direct mode checked.

In this mode, the Vive does not show as a second monitor in Windows10 display properties, and of course, in DCS World settings tab, the Vive's native resolution of 2160 x 1200 is not listed. Is this correct. (I have turned all DCS settings to low)?

 

I honestly thought that the resolution was auto-detected, and basically ignored the ingame setting. Could be worth fiddling with, maybe, but that's also something I'm not too sure on.