Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[DBO]

Hi Folks

I've been on the sidelines for a while .. age aside, the last time I was flying a PC regularly was around the time that LOMAC and TrackIR came out. Over the last few months however I've gotten back into the genre and am once again faced with a steep learning curve within DCS. The promise of flying in VR was just way too tempting, so I've just built a new battle box and ordered a VIVE (which will arrive next week).

 

Anyway, getting back on subject - and I'm hoping for some info and advice on setup with DCS (non-steam edition). I'm still reading through this rather extensive thread, but is there a current 'sticky' or an article someone can point me at which summarizes the best way to get the Vive working well with DCS outside of Steam?

[hansangb]

DBO,

There's really nothing special. Run the installation routine that comes with Vive, then fire up DCS. Check the box SETUP of DCS that says "detect Rift" (it works for Vive and the setting predates Vive's announcement"

 

Set graphics to LOW to start and experiment from there. Vive currently does not support Aysync Time Warp (used to smooth out frame drops) like the Rift so you have to start at the lowest setting and incrementally crank up your settings from there.

 

But you'll need pretty beefy machine to support VR as of now. So hopefully, you're battle box is up to the task. Good luck.

[DBO]

But you'll need pretty beefy machine to support VR as of now. So hopefully, you're battle box is up to the task. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the heads-up. The box is a new 8 Core i7-6900K, with a Gigabyte G1-1080 and 32GB of 3200 RAM ... so I do hope it's up to the task since there wasn't too much more I could throw at it given the current tech :smilewink:. I'm looking forward to experiencing the Vive - I'm sure it'll be a learning curve to get the most out of it.

[Shabi]

Hi Folks

Anyway, getting back on subject - and I'm hoping for some info and advice on setup with DCS (non-steam edition). I'm still reading through this rather extensive thread, but is there a current 'sticky' or an article someone can point me at which summarizes the best way to get the Vive working well with DCS outside of Steam?

 

This is what I did to optimise performance:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2800507&postcount=1101

[hansangb]

Thanks for the heads-up. The box is a new 8 Core i7-6900K, with a Gigabyte G1-1080 and 32GB of 3200 RAM ... so I do hope it's up to the task since there wasn't too much more I could throw at it given the current tech :smilewink:. I'm looking forward to experiencing the Vive - I'm sure it'll be a learning curve to get the most out of it.

 

 

that'll do! :):joystick::joystick:

[DBO]

that'll do! :):joystick::joystick:

HAHA .. yea sure hope so - it bloody cost enough!. It's funny, you know I lost interest in PC flying when I did a real pilot's license and eventually flew less and less hours because it got too expensive. Then VR comes out, along with requirement specs to make your eyes water ... and here I was complaining about how expensive real world flying was :doh:

[npole]

Thanks for the heads-up. The box is a new 8 Core i7-6900K, with a Gigabyte G1-1080 and 32GB of 3200 RAM ... so I do hope it's up to the task since there wasn't too much more I could throw at it given the current tech :smilewink:. I'm looking forward to experiencing the Vive - I'm sure it'll be a learning curve to get the most out of it.

 

Don't be surprised when you'll find that it won't be enough.. especially in multiplayer (doing 25 fps, in certain circumstances, with all the sets to low with a OC'ed 1080 is pretty frustrating).

Unfortunately DCS is not optimized for VR... let's hope in the future. ;)

[average_pilot]

And don't install the HTC software.

[DBO]

And don't install the HTC software.

 

What did you mean by that? .. surely not the Vive Setup package???

[average_pilot]

What did you mean by that? .. surely not the Vive Setup package???

The HTC software isn't needed. Just install SteamVR through Steam and you'll be able to run all HTC Vive games/whatever.

The less things running on the background the better.

[hansangb]

But it's a pretty cool intro into Vive's VR. So at least give it a try and uninstall if it doesn't add much value.

[M1Combat]

It's also the only way to pair it with your phone to get alerts etc. Not entirely sure that's worth it but... You can install it and not have it on unless you're expecting a call so that's nice.

[average_pilot]

Now you are teasing me. I didn't know it included a demo. I thought it was only to pair your phone with the vive and not much more. I'll give it a try.

[DerekSpeare]

I'm an Oculus user (no hisses, pls :D ), and it's likely you guys know this but it may be that Oculus removed the HMD verification check from the latest runtimes:

 

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive/releases/tag/0.6.2

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course-dumps-its-vr-headset-checking-drm/

 

It would mean, then, that ReVive runs again with the Oculus Store.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[average_pilot]

I'm an Oculus user (no hisses, pls :D ), and it's likely you guys know this but it may be that Oculus removed the HMD verification check from the latest runtimes:

 

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive/releases/tag/0.6.2

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course-dumps-its-vr-headset-checking-drm/

 

It would mean, then, that ReVive runs again with the Oculus Store.

Looking forward to give Henry a go.

[Vivoune]

Yup Oculus took a step back. That should give them some slack from the community. ^^

 

But sadly that's not a sign of a change of heart from Oculus.

 

-They released with an exclusive Store

-Revive devs allowed Vive users to buy and play from the Oculus store

-Oculus answer by adding hardware checks

-Revive devs answer by completely removing the Oculus DRM (allowing Vive users to play all Oculus store games 'for free')

-After consideration Oculus takes a step back so that Revive can add the DRM back.

 

Oculus started a piracy arms-race it cannot win. They just took a step back because that’s in their best interest, in fear of having their whole store pirated instead of simply useable on the Vive.

 

I wouldn’t call that a good will nor the end of that mess by any means. But it surely isn’t a step in the wrong direction.

[hansangb]

Yup Oculus took a step back. That should give them some slack from the community. ^^

 

But sadly that's not a sign of a change of heart from Oculus.

 

-They released with an exclusive Store

-Revive devs allowed Vive users to buy and play from the Oculus store

-Oculus answer by adding hardware checks

-Revive devs answer by completely removing the Oculus DRM (allowing Vive users to play all Oculus store games 'for free')

-After consideration Oculus takes a step back so that Revive can add the DRM back.

 

Oculus started a piracy arms-race it cannot win. They just took a step back because that’s in their best interest, in fear of having their whole store pirated instead of simply useable on the Vive.

 

I wouldn’t call that a good will nor the end of that mess by any means. But it surely isn’t a step in the wrong direction.

 

 

While we get that you hate Oculus/FB, do keep in mind that were it not for them, there would be no Vive. I don't think HTC had Vive in incubation and the timing was purely coincidental. Maybe, but I'll give credit to Oculus for bootstrapping this whole field.

 

I never get folks who think commerce should be for the betterment of mankind. It's there to make a buck, pure and simple. If Oculus walls itself off, and people get turned off, they will go out of business. The market punishes people who make the wrong move (except financials which is another matter for another time for another forum). Oculus taking the risk allowed ED to jump into the VR game. For that, I'm forever grateful. If Rift goes out of business, I'll jump to Vive (again) or the open source version if it succeeds.

 

/* BTW Vivoune, "You seem a decent fellow" a la Princess Bride, I'm not taking this out on you or anything. It's just my opinion */

 

The beauty of all this, is the we get a choice. And ultimately, that makes DCS that much better.

 

BTW, one thing I threw out to a "gov't knows better/gov't subsidy is the best" minded friend of mine. What do you say to a clerk when pay for something. You say Thank you, and the clerk says Thank you. Because both parties benefited. That's the market in action. Two parties benefiting. Oculus' consumer VR revolution makes DCS better. So I'll thank DCS, I'll thank Rift (and Vive until I sent it back) with my money. Finally, HTC pushes Oculus and Oculus pushes Vive. And both begat the opensource movement. We all benefit! I'm positively excited about what VR will bring in the next 24 months. Even as I'm enjoying the hell out of it right now!

Edited June 25, 2016 by hansangb

[hansangb]

which proves the "market corrects - always" theory! :)

 

It wasn't because Oculus found religion or they wanted to "do good for the people" They just wanted to make more money. Pure, simple, and greed works every time. As they should.

[Vivoune]

I don't hate Facebook nor Oculus, not at all. Even if I would that doesn't take away from the hardware quality. If it weren't for their strategy I probably would have bought an Oculus on top of the Vive. I just think their business strategy is choking an emergent market which it needs the most is expansion. And everyone is entitled to its own opinion hansangb, no hard feelings. Once we can get some numbers in the future it'll be interresting to see which strategy paid the best, if the market hasn't been choked down. Of course every business is motived by greed, but the strategy it adopts to reach its goals are important.

 

I was simply stating things straight before some would go on about how Oculus have completely changed their politics as you can already read everywhere. Many are jumping on the thank-you-everything-is-forgotten! wagon without even realizing that being forced into taking that step back Oculus gains some control back, the alternative for them was a completely cracked platform. They didn't have a choice and it completely is in line with their politics so far.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Vivoune

[DBO]

Got the Vive last night and gave it a quick go in the A10C on the Nevada map. I'll need to do some tweaking to get it a bit smoother but .. Oh my! This is just too darn good. All I need now is a motion platform :)

 

Just an incredible sensation when you first sit inside the jet and see everything in 3D. The cockpit always looked so much larger on the monitor. You really get a sense of scale with the VR - the massive size of the aircraft behind you and the height you sit off the ground. Just awesome! I can't wait to get this running a little better - the menu interface was painful with the look/point,click interface and performance on the ground & takeoff was a bit choppy. I didn't get a chance yet to try it with all the SteamVR stuff disabled.

 

The software must still have a lot of optimization left to do though. Given the relatively low resolution, you'd think a modern machine with a 1080 card would blitz a small dual screen output to a VR headset. I was running triple 30" screens in 7680x1600 and everything was butter smooth. Surely that has to be more taxing on the GPU and system than the Vive.

 

Anyway, it's very early days in the scheme of VR and I'm sure things will improve. Hats off to all the developers out there though which are making this stuff a reality.

[Shabi]

I was playing in the OpenConflict server last night and got a lot of black frames (maybe 2 or 3 per second!). Has anyone else had that happen in the Vive?

 

I'm oversampling the render at 1.5x (pixel density) and the server had turned on rainy weather were the only two things that were new. I noticed the flashing seemed to subside when above the cloud cover, but need to confirm that again as was caught up in the heat of the moment. Using a gtx 980, no shadows, AA @ 2x, HDR on.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Shabi
more info

[CptTangerine]

I had the same feeling when I first played the P-51. The cockpit just seems so cramped compared to playing with a monitor.

 

In relation to the smoothness mostly it's very good. The only time I've really had an issue is with the Ka-50. I found that there was some lag in the headset when flying (not there on the ground) giving a sort of double-take effect which was very dizzying.

 

The odd thing is that War Thunder on the Vive operates on the Oculus Rift principle - two big screens side by side on the monitor instead of it all being cramped down into a small screen in the middle. I don't know if this makes any difference in real terms but it does run very smoothly. It also has the advantage that, when changing settings, you are surrounded by them instead of having them move around with the headset.

 

It would be good if DCS changed the menu system so that controls can be set up in-game - at the moment the fresnel lenses make that impossible, or at least, incredibly difficult.

[average_pilot]

Talking about the sense of scale, something that catches my attention is how the side consoles of the A-10C on a monitor felt like long aisles cramped with buttons, switches and dials with the lasts ones in the back far away and difficult to reach. In VR they look like what they are, two relatively small consoles with everything at hand.

[Enduro14]

Talking about the sense of scale, something that catches my attention is how the side consoles of the A-10C on a monitor felt like long aisles cramped with buttons, switches and dials with the lasts ones in the back far away and difficult to reach. In VR they look like what they are, two relatively small consoles with everything at hand.

 

Well unfortunately in 2d and normal 3D non Vr the head position and scale is utter rubish in the hog. Vr is better but I still feel the pits are scaled to small to our relative human size.

[AldoUSMC]

A colleague brought in his HTC Vive and we hooked it up to my machine... running a 980Ti graphics card. Having flown DCS for years now... using 3x1 24" screens with Track IR 5 enabled.... Wow... While I do concur with others comments that some of the dials are a bit hard to read... there are optimizations to take place.. but being in the cockpit of the SU-25T and the Gazzelle..... seeing it in 3d and having the sense of spacial orientation in those aircraft... Wow.