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So the issue looks to be about the objects in view.. I enabled the detailed FPS screen and I have noticed that in a random situation (while sitting in hangar), while looking at right, the screen reported 1900 objects loaded and I were doing 18-20 fps, and when looking at my left the objects were 900 and I was doing 52 fps.

 

There must be something really wrong with the ambient occlusion because both the views were similar (no visible objects...).

 

My sets are also all to low (including the view distance)... and again I own a 980Ti .. i don't believe that I would do 18 fps in DCS with all the sets to LOW, while in every other games I do four times that FPS with mid-high settings in VR (in example in Project CARS).

I really advise you to try this:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=36

These are the 1.5.2 old visibility values posted by Mustang. (third time I'm suggesting this... :noexpression:)

 

Another option is trying the 1.5.2 directly. You can downgrade using this command:

dcs_updater update 1.5.2

(Optionally copy your whole current DCS folder to avoid having to upgrade later via network)

And yes, that version already supported the Vive.

 

What I don't understand is why with 5 visibility levels to choose from on the options none, even the lowest, gives any substantial performance gain.

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I really advise you to try this:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=36

These are the 1.5.2 old visibility values posted by Mustang. (third time I'm suggesting this... :noexpression:)

 

Another option is trying the 1.5.2 directly. You can downgrade using this command:

dcs_updater update 1.5.2

(Optionally copy your whole current DCS folder to avoid having to upgrade later via network)

And yes, that version already supported the Vive.

 

What I don't understand is why with 5 visibility levels to choose from on the options none, even the lowest, gives any substantial performance gain.

 

I already tried it.. I also lowered the numbers of the LOW option.. it didn't made any difference (or anything noticeable).

The fact is that if i run the game without the VIVE, it does something like 130fps ..I know the resolution is different and it has to double render.. but from 130 to a low of 18fps seems a way too much. I can't downgrade (I play online).

I think the stereoscopic rendering in DCS is heavily bugged...

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npole, you get this performance loss also in single player mode or is it a multiplayer issue?

Maybe you can record a track in single player and we compare our frame rates. I have the same graphics card.

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npole, you get this performance loss also in single player mode or is it a multiplayer issue?

Maybe you can record a track in single player and we compare our frame rates. I have the same graphics card.

 

Multiplayer (as I specified in the other post) ...SP performance is much better, but SP for me has no value, since I only play online.

Btw I'm surprised that I'm the only one who have noticed it? Everyone who own a HMD is playing SP.... or what?

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Multiplayer (as I specified in the other post) ...SP performance is much better, but SP for me has no value, since I only play online.

Btw I'm surprised that I'm the only one who have noticed it? Everyone who own a HMD is playing SP.... or what?

 

I play the majoirty of my time online, and usually have no issues.

 

If the weather is bad, rain etc my frames will drop. The other issue are cities, i try to avoid them.

 

But usually these issues aside, it works great online.

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Tbilisi River Run

 

Tbilisi River Run in DCS World with the HTC Vive, at mostly 90fps.

Reprojection (equivalent to O/R ATW) kicks in at 45fps drops.

Two passes down the Tbilisi river walk and a pass down the central rail line with a landing and shut down. Showcasing the smoothness of gameplay. Emersion is incredible, resolution, well.., petition HTC and Valve to sell us 4K HMD's is all I can say :)

 

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@DigitalEngine nice!

 

@tkairshows

Is there a way to turn off the mirror on the monitor so the card is not rendering 3 images?

From what I've read elsewehere I understood that the desktop view is just a replica of the Left (or Right) eye render, i.e. not a separate render.

I could be wrong though. If it helps to increase fps I'd be happy to get rid of it.

There is no spoon.

 

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Tbilisi River Run in DCS World with the HTC Vive, at mostly 90fps.

Reprojection (equivalent to O/R ATW) kicks in at 45fps drops.

Two passes down the Tbilisi river walk and a pass down the central rail line with a landing and shut down. Showcasing the smoothness of gameplay. Emersion is incredible, resolution, well.., petition HTC and Valve to sell us 4K HMD's is all I can say :)

 

Now try to do the same in multiplayer ... and lemme know. :)

 

Ah.. what you see you on the screen (the one you recorded) is different from the experience you have in the HMD, because of synched frames: at low fps when the synchronization is lost you will see major stutters, while the mirror on the screen remains fluid because it's a single view port.

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Tbilisi River Run in DCS World with the HTC Vive, at mostly 90fps.

 

Not that I don't believe you but it'd be nice to see where it drops to 45fps. The numbers are too small to see even in 1080p.

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Performance Issues...

 

Here is a repost plus addition info which may help others.

 

If your Using the HTC Vive read this page,

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139912&page=107

 

Basically it seems the Steam app, and also a background services presumably having to do with HTC's e-shop, and/or Steam VR do not seem play well with DCS World (go figure, as DCS is available on Steam...)

I just turn them all off when activating DCS World. Also I basically disable every unnecessary app running in the task bar.

 

Until I (and Holleywood_315 about the same time) figured this out. The stuttering was not sever, but noticeably annoying. Reading the below quote, this stutter was in the 2D monitor version also, it just was not as noticeable as it is in VR, in other words the stutter issue I was having did not have anything to do with fps (running at 180fps!!).

 

Yes, there is a very slight stutter I'm experiencing also, approximately every 1.0 to 1.5 seconds that is sometimes especially noticeable in Virtual Reality. Even when getting 90fps I can see this slight stutter. After trying differing graphical settings (low to medium), I went to 2D mode, and yes, it's there, but in 2D you really have to look for it. In Virtual Reality it's much more noticeable because everything is full and life size.

 

The HTC Vive's equivalent to OR's ATW is "Allow Reprojection", and it works very well. It basically kick's in when the fps drops to 45fps.

 

Another thing I've noticed, is cockpit shadows have a very hard hit on fps, as it keeps the fps in the Reprojection (or ATW) range most of the time, which is a shame as I really love the cockpit shadows. If you'd like a to see a good example of how the "Allow Reprojection" works, fly the "Flight Over Tbilisi" mission with the cockpit shadows on.

 

These are my DCS option setting, and below that is my system hardware description, which I've got overclocked, both the CPU and GPU.

 

Textures = Medium

Terrain Textures = Low

Civ. Traffic = Low (although I haven't seen any yet)

Water = Low

Heat Blur = OFF

Shadows = OFF

*N/A

*N/A

*N/A

Res. of Cockpit Displays = 256

MSAA = 8x

HDR = ON (don't know is it really does anything in VR)

Depth of Field = OFF

Lens Effects = NONE

 

Clutter/Grass = 0 (haven't really played with it yet)

Tress Visibility = 1500 (haven't really played with it yet)

Preload Radius = 150 (played with it, but not quite understanding how it really works and effects DCS World in VR yet)

 

Anisotropic Filtering = 4x

Flat Terrain Shadows = OFF

Disable Aero Interface = Checked

 

My system is fairly up to date, and I personally consider it really the minimal for a good DCS World / HTC Vive experience. It just takes some beefy hardware for this VR thing.

My system basics are,

i7-6700 CPU,

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO ALPHA motherboard,

G.SKILL F4-3400C16Q-64GVK 64GB memory (maybe this is what's forcing me through issues others are having?)

Zotac GeForce® GTX 980 Ti AMP! Extreme GPU

Windows10

SSD Harddrive

 

Ah.. what you see you on the screen (the one you recorded) is different from the experience you have in the HMD, because of synched frames: at low fps when the synchronization is lost you will see major stutters, while the mirror on the screen remains fluid because it's a single view port.

What I'm seeing in the HMD is mostly 90fps (about 92%-98% guess). While it's not possible for me to monitor the monitor while wearing the HMD to compare both, I do see and I am able to read the fps indication in the HMD very well as it's displayed a little lower in the HMD, closer the Vives sweet spot than the comms messages.

 

I do get the occasional drop down to 45fps, but (and this is only just an observed subjective speculation) it seems to be certain object textures and at only certain altitudes or distances from the offending object, whatever it might be, I don't know.

But I have the suspicion the ED team is already aware of the culprit(s) and it(they) are on a to do list for termination.

And I haven't got to doing multiplayer yet, just not enough time :noexpression:.

 

This is the best help I can give for those using the Vive, hope it helps some of those struggling with the stutter issues.

 

Again, keep in mind all this is new, DCS World wasn't built from the keyboard up for VR, so it's gonna take some time and a lot of work by the Eagle Dynamics Team and the dedicated DCS World fans to get to where we'd all like DCS + VR to be.


Edited by DigitalEngine

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When watching the extended fps counter in-game during VR testing with the Vive I have the following observations, appreciate if you can confirm and share your thoughts

 

1) 'Surf' (presumably water) eats quite a lot of render time (1.5+) even though my Water setting is LOW and there is hardly any water surface in sight when looking around.

 

2) The 'Camera Angles' counter spontaneously resets to 90.00000 0.000000 every two seconds. This is regardless of whether Allow Reprojection has been set to ON or OFF.

This could be innocent but I do find it suspicious i.e. could point to erroneous addressing of the VR driver. I have not seen this behaviour before with TrackIR in 2D but perhaps others have?

Would be nice to hear if others can replicate and if this counter resetting is the same with the OR.

There is no spoon.

 

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Thanks for your settings, DigitalEngine!

One question: Does "Flat Terrain Shadows = OFF" have a positive or negative impact on the frame rate?

A warrior's mission is to foster the success of others.

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Simple tip @all: If like me you have no particular need for rendered tree objects in VR you can set the Trees slider below 1500 by editing the options.lua file. I set it to zero myself.

 

["treesVisibility"] = 0

 

@averagepilot

 

I really advise you to try this:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=36

These are the 1.5.2 old visibility values posted by Mustang.

 

Thanks for this. I'm using Mustangs High settings now and these seem to give me better overall results than the regular Low visibility range.

There is no spoon.

 

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OK, did some tweaking and got DCS Vive back to a playable state, im using a gtx980. Firstly, I disabled the background services as per Hollywood's post on this page:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139912&page=107

 

 

*) service ViveFSM Service: change startup mode from Automatic to Manual

*) service Viveport Services: change startup mode from Automatic to Manual

*) service HTC Account Service: change startup mode from Automatic to Manual

*) using msconfig (look this up on internet if you're not familiar with it) I disabled startup for HTCVRMarketplaceUserContextHelper

 

(I'm on win10 so used the Services thing in the start menu/computer management. MSconfig startup doesn't seem to be in win8, you can at least kill the processes in task manager).

 

Next up I tweaked the graphics settings using the F15-C instant action mission (intercept), diving down to the urban area to check how it went. I can mostly sit with the FPS clamped at 45, so reprojection is doing it's thing. Stuttering is noticeable when it drops below that. When the bombers drop their loads it goes to hell, especially with explosion effects, but this is fine unless you are playing bombing missions I suppose.

 

At any rate, I like trees, and I like shadows. But shadows and trees are a recipe for disaster. Indeed shadows with any urban environment kills it pretty quick. Below are the settings I chose to achieve a 90% hit rate on 45fps, after disabling those services:

 

AAvX4D5.png

 

(Antialiasing is jacked up as I'm trying to make the cockpit gauges clearer). I then tested this in the Phoenix server and it is indeed playable, ROCK ON :joystick:

(we need a VR emoji)


Edited by Shabi
accuracy

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Yes, these settings are pretty much the same I use now. (Execpt that I also use visib range = low and water medium.)

I also like shadows, but they are a real killer. Turing them off completely allows you to go for much higher settings in the other options without nearly any stuttering. I did my tests flying over Batumi with the F-86F.

 

Did you notice any improvement in reading gauges when setting MSAA 16xQ compared to let's say 8x?

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OK, did some tweaking and got DCS Vive back to a playable state. Firstly, I disabled the background services as per Hollywood's post on this page:

Loads of useful info snipped

 

It is really impossible for anyone to make any worthwhile comparison, if you don't at least give us some idea of your basic spec. Better still put the lot into your Signature, like most people have done. Then we can see how we compare. :thumbup: Thanks

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Oops, my bad, I thought I had put my GFX card in there. I'm using a gtx980, and my other specs are relatively standard for a gaming i7. Motherboards, cpu specifics and memory clocks make for comparatively meager performance increases compared to the card (providing one doesn't use abnormally terrible hardware). Although I understand flight sims would be a bit more CPU heavy potentially (I have an i7-4790k).

 

Yes shadows really add to the sense of space and presence, mainly I want shadows in the cockpit panning across instruments as I turn, it's another signifier as to which way things are pointing. The dirt/grime effect on the glass is also great for this, and I WISH we had a setting for cockpit shadows vs environment shadows, but I understand this might be difficult if it's lit with the same engine.

 

As for AA, I'm not really sure what MSAA 16xQ means (gone are the days of simple AA names), but anecdotal evidence is that regular AA @ 16x left a lot more "shimmer" on the instruments kind of like a moire pattern. This seems lessened with 16xQ.

 

Playing on an openconflict map tonight is revealing that I'm dipping below 45fps a lot which is a worry. Even at 12,000 ft and looking straight ahead, I imagine the map is packed with units. I may have to get a gtx1080... (searching for excuses to do this..)

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Shadows

 

Yes shadows really add to the sense of space and presence, mainly I want shadows in the cockpit panning across instruments as I turn, it's another signifier as to which way things are pointing. The dirt/grime effect on the glass is also great for this, and I WISH we had a setting for cockpit shadows vs environment shadows, but I understand this might be difficult if it's lit with the same engine.

Completely agree. I really love the cockpit shadows, but the terrain I'm ok without.

I had made a new "DCS Wish List" thread titled "Separate Shadows " a couple of days ago.

Maybe you and anyone else who'd care could plus (+) it if you'd like?

Who knows, might get it in an upcoming version.

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lots of good info in this thread, i haven't read all of it, but i have been though a number of pages. as noted in my posts a page or so back, i ordered the Vive. I have had it now for a few days and have tested it on a number of games. I know my GPU is at the min spec so i dont expect great performance, but so far pretty much all of the games i have played via steam, including Elite Dangerous have all been surprisingly smooth.

As for DCS, my frames are low, to be expected i suppose, i have adjusted to the lower settings referenced in the later few pages here and run DCS with steam and SteamVR closed, but i do not have any Vive or HTC related services to set to manual (strange?)

 

the main problem im having with DCS is that its very jittery when i move my head. if i keep my head still the frames and everything else are ok, not great but playable through level flight, dives, rolls and hard G turns.. it all looks decent. When i move the frame counter doesn't inicate a drop, but the movement is very jumpy/jittery and that makes it near impossible to use. frames are in the 50s or so. this jitter is only in the cockpit but happens on the ground or air.. doesnt seem to be jittery in ME or other menus before entering the sim. i havent checked if its the same in sim using external cameras

 

Has this been discussed/fixed and i missed it or are there any thoughts on this?

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the main problem im having with DCS is that its very jittery when i move my head. if i keep my head still the frames and everything else are ok, not great but playable through level flight, dives, rolls and hard G turns.. it all looks decent. When i move the frame counter doesn't inicate a drop, but the movement is very jumpy/jittery and that makes it near impossible to use. frames are in the 50s or so. this jitter is only in the cockpit but happens on the ground or air.. doesnt seem to be jittery in ME or other menus before entering the sim. i havent checked if its the same in sim using external cameras

 

Has this been discussed/fixed and i missed it or are there any thoughts on this?

 

This is due to instant fps dropping because of poor game performance. You won't notice it with a monitor, neither you will notice it in VR while keeping your head still, but as soon you move you have the "ghosting" effect.

If you enabled the fps counter (CTRL+PAUSE key) you will notice that your frame rate will go lower than 45fps, and this is enough to cause the ghosting you are experiencing: every instant your fps will pass the 45fps limit, you will experience the jitters, even if it's just a matter of 1 second.

 

Don't worry it's not because of your low-end gfx board, well not completely.. I own a 980Ti and I do 18 fps sometime in multiplayer with everything set to LOW (everything .. literally).

 

We can only hope the game will be optimized in the future, because as of today, you cannot have a smooth experience in VR, neither by owning the fastest card on the market (the nVidia 1080, that is 30% faster than my gpu).

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There's just something about that new Rift smell...

 

Hi all,

 

It arrived today, and it was a nice surprise. Since we pretty much know a good bit about it, I won't write too much. However, there are some initial thoughts I have coming from a DK2 user for almost two years.

 

I had an opportunity to demo both the CV1 and the Vive recently, and I liked what the CV1 offered over the other device. I outlined my thoughts in two separate threads here. Since I have had more time with the CV1 today, here are some of my other observations:

 

1 - FOV - Less than the DK2. It was a disappointment when running FSX with FlyInside

2 - SDE - Minimal. I'd expect SDE not to be an issue in a CV2 in the future, but you can see it

3 - "God Rays" - I didn't get a chance to see its effects in the demo. Mine has it to a degree, but it's not so bad as to make it a deal breaker, but it is there

4 - Comfort - more comfortable than the Vive (personal taste) but not as comfy as the DK2

5 - Initial Setup - I've been running the DK2 and OH 1.4 program, so setup was simple enough. I get a warning telling me to update my USB3 drivers, but the Oculus system compatibility test tells me all is green...strange, but I'm ignoring it.

6 - Sound - I have good Plantronics muffs, so I just removed the Oculus ones and disabled the sound/recording device in the Device manager

7 - The "Puck" thing - I like it and it doesn't cost a USB port...just talks to the HMD. I didn't think I'd like it, but I do

 

"BoxxMann's Thoughts"

 

I'm pleased that the thing worked, and from reading the Oculus forums one would expect a pig in a poke when the box arrives. Mine installed without trouble, and I specifically built a new PC to accommodate the CV1 and made sure everything passed every test there was. Shaking it down with the DK2 for three months helped the transition. Everything was simple in my case.

 

Unfortunately, I am not as enthusiastic about it as I'd like to be, but I didn't have unrealistic expectations. The diminished FOV, somewhat ergonomic discomfort and "god rays" are evident negatives. But it is a step up from the Dk2 by way of image clarity, especially at a distance. That part has improved a good bit. To be fair, I need to get more time with this thing before I really have a feeling for it.

 

I'm expecting that my observations in other sims like PCars, DCS and FSX/P3d-FI with respect to image clarity to be improved in iracing when they (hopefully) release the update.

 

Here in DCS the cockpits are much more crisp. The F15 hud easily readable when in a normal seated position. Small labias and gauges need you to lean a bit to see clearly. I have not done any A/A yet.

 

Anyhow, those are my observations. Hopefully when the CV2 arrives in whenever, there will be abundant FOV, no SDE, much better lenses and much better comfort. Note that if you are not using VR, you must!

 

Host PC: i7-5930 at 4.2 | GTX980ti | 1tb Evo SSD | and some other stuff

 

Pics:

 

IMG_1962.jpg

 

IMG_1964.jpg

 

DK2 Retirement - Goodbye ole buddy! (going to a new life on the DSD Demo chassis as the DSD Center)

 

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Derek,

The one thing on comfort. The DK2 had a chance to break in and mold to your head. I think you'll find that CV1 does the same. At first, I was like "dang..this is tight" But after I re-loosened the straps - side and top, and had a chance to play with it, it seemed to get better.

 

If you put that DK2 on EBAY, you may find that you can almost fund a CV1! Crazy, I know, but true as of last month.

hsb

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---

 

i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Derek,

The one thing on comfort. The DK2 had a chance to break in and mold to your head. I think you'll find that CV1 does the same. At first, I was like "dang..this is tight" But after I re-loosened the straps - side and top, and had a chance to play with it, it seemed to get better.

 

If you put that DK2 on EBAY, you may find that you can almost fund a CV1! Crazy, I know, but true as of last month.

 

That's an interesting idea about selling it, but I want to keep it. And yes, they are paying 500+ for a DK2...wth?!?!

 

I am thinking of getting some replacement goggle foam and a VR cover to get some more padding in this thing. I've adjusted it all it will go. It'll eventually be ok :joystick:

Derek "BoxxMann" Speare

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Useful VR settings and tips for DCS HERE

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