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Planes visibility and smooth online gameplay in DCS 2.0?


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I assume you are talking about seeing a fighter at 18miles (30km) in game, to which I respond: no you cannot.

 

 

@everyone talking about res as a fix: This has limits with the current rendering system. 4K is not a reasonable demand for everyone to have for one. Also, good luck seeing a single pixel ona 4K monitor. Part of the advantage of a high res display is that it is very hard to pick out single pixels. So while DCS might choose to render a single pixel at that res, you probably wont see it.

Yep, it doesn't make it "easy", but at least there "is" a pixel to spot...

And also agree, just say with 4k everything is fine is not the solution.

 

We need an intelligent LOD system that renders a plane as a "spot" at a reasonable distance , maybe starting with a little bit darker (alpha) than the surrounding sky and gradually getting darker when nearing 5 miles until it is a dark gray spot. Then let the normal LOD take over...

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I assume you are talking about seeing a fighter at 18miles (30km) in game, to which I respond: no you cannot.

 

 

@everyone talking about res as a fix: This has limits with the current rendering system. 4K is not a reasonable demand for everyone to have for one. Also, good luck seeing a single pixel ona 4K monitor. Part of the advantage of a high res display is that it is very hard to pick out single pixels. So while DCS might choose to render a single pixel at that res, you probably wont see it.

You say what I can't see, when I fly without radar to save alcohol and stay silent so I can sneak up to targets? It was my first surprise when randomly placed targets needs to be spotted when I bought Mig and wanted to learn basic cannon and missile ranges.

 

Sure I knew at what altitude they would be, sure on default weather, but still spotting before radar and from ~60° area to heading. And that got to hate the dirty windows, why I tried to use cleaner windows mod but found that to be like cheating (against AI) as it was far more easier and made radar less useful for immersion.

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DCS calculates the size of a plane and if the size is smaller than one pixel on screen, it won't show a pixel...

 

Do note that even if it's showing up at a pixel, if you're flying at normal zoom level with a normal monitor (& eye-to-monitor distance), it would be much large in reality! In order to make this dot as large as it would be in reality, you have to zoom in to the point where you have a small fraction of your real-life FoV, because of the small amount of our real FoV that our P.C. monitors occupy. There's no getting around this unless you have a multi-monitor setup or a massive wrap-around screen. This is the primary reason (though far from the only one) that spotting is harder in the sim than in reality. It's our damn monitors, I'm telling you. They're too small, occupying about 20 degrees of our real ~165-degree FoV, which means that, in any first-person sim or game, we must end up with a much lower zoom and/or FoV than reality. Pull one end of the string ...


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FOV does help with Situational Awareness and noticing things on the edge of your vision. When you zoom in to "spot" something it works like binoculars.

What Starkey said: even a 4k monitor that renders a pixel at say 15nm does not mean you immediately spot it on your monitor at normal FOV, and certainly our narrow FOV of 70*-90* on a standard single monitor does not mean you look in the immediate correct direction.

To get an idea about field of view just sit in front of you screen as usual and hold your hands left and right of your eyes until they block out anything but the screen. Now look around without changing hands position. That is your FOV in DCS. It does not help to see things far away...

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Another issue not being mentioned here is contrast, or at least what appears to be a contrast issue but is probably several factors. Especially in DCS, but in sims in general, aircraft blend in to their background far too well. Sometimes DCS planes even seem to blend into blue sky. However, when planes in DCS are against the ground, even when close they can be damn near impossible to make out. Ive placed AI on fixed flight paths below me at varous distances and then spawned over them. Even knowing where the aircraft was, I found it hard or impossible to find.

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Another issue not being mentioned here is contrast, or at least what appears to be a contrast issue but is probably several factors. Especially in DCS, but in sims in general, aircraft blend in to their background far too well. Sometimes DCS planes even seem to blend into blue sky. However, when planes in DCS are against the ground, even when close they can be damn near impossible to make out. Ive placed AI on fixed flight paths below me at varous distances and then spawned over them. Even knowing where the aircraft was, I found it hard or impossible to find.

 

See my post a few posts back... but honestly, you can get this type of blending in real world situations as well. It's kinda why they were painted the way they were in WWII...

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And if you put the planes in the same formation and conditions you cant see them?

 

At one mile I can see a plane yes, but not that easily. At one mile in DCS a WW2 fighter is about .5 miles from being invisible. Im not saying you CANT see one at 1 miles in DCS, im demonstrating how different it is to IRL.

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@everyone talking about res as a fix: This has limits with the current rendering system. 4K is not a reasonable demand for everyone to have for one. Also, good luck seeing a single pixel ona 4K monitor. Part of the advantage of a high res display is that it is very hard to pick out single pixels. So while DCS might choose to render a single pixel at that res, you probably wont see it.

 

Of course it has problems, but this is what it ultimately comes down to.

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At one mile I can see a plane yes, but not that easily. At one mile in DCS a WW2 fighter is about .5 miles from being invisible. Im not saying you CANT see one at 1 miles in DCS, im demonstrating how different it is to IRL.

 

I dont thnk anyone needs examples of how real world differs from a sim... :noexpression:

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See my post a few posts back... but honestly, you can get this type of blending in real world situations as well. It's kinda why they were painted the way they were in WWII...

 

No camouflage works that well. Soldiers wear camo, but we dont just disappear except under very specific conditions. Largely, camo just makes you a little less easy to see unless your literally inside a bush. They do not blend in even close to the extent you see in this game, or others. Its just not a easy as it would be if the plane was painted orange.

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No camouflage works that well. Soldiers wear camo, but we dont just disappear except under very specific conditions. Largely, camo just makes you a little less easy to see unless your literally inside a bush. They do not blend in even close to the extent you see in this game, or others. Its just not a easy as it would be if the plane was painted orange.

 

But its a sim, its not real world, things are going to blend more in a sim, real world things dont change shape and detail base don LODs. But heck you can go to an Airshow and loose sight of a grey aircraft against a blue sky at times... there are other factors that help you pick it up, things like exhaust, light effects, shadows... etc. But its how you make that happen in a sim which is no easy feat...

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But its a sim, its not real world, things are going to blend more in a sim, real world things dont change shape and detail base don LODs. But heck you can go to an Airshow and loose sight of a grey aircraft against a blue sky at times... there are other factors that help you pick it up, things like exhaust, light effects, shadows... etc. But its how you make that happen in a sim which is no easy feat...

 

Who is saying its easy? Or that a game would not need artificial mechanisms to make these things work? Nobody is saying that.

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What about navigation lights and strobe lights? Will they have realistic visibility on distance depending on their settings bright/dim and ambient light and weather conditions? Currently these external lights are useless due to faked rendering, unless we are all just pretending they work and can allow aircraft to be seen at long ranges for collision avoidance.

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So what is your solution? I mean until we see what EDGE brings this is really just empty chatter...

 

I am quite interested in seeing what EDGE does. Perhaps it does alot to fix this. However, like many many others here, I would like to see some scaling implemented (as a start) to fixing this issue as a whole.

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What about navigation lights and strobe lights? Will they have realistic visibility on distance depending on their settings bright/dim and ambient light and weather conditions? Currently these are useless due to fake rendering, unless we are all just pretending they work and can allow aircraft to be seen at long ranges for collision avoidance.

 

Yup, I hope these things will improve with 2.0, I know they have a lot of effects and such to re-work so we will see what we end up with and go from there.

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