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How is f-14 maneuverability?


NORTHMAN
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... You'll also find no difficulty in finding situations where you'll kill yourself, both at low and high speeds and regardless of current wingsweep setting. .

 

Perfect! lol

 

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Be nice!

 

Sarcasm edited out.

 

Thread was making me *so* glad I've bothered to repeatedly share data here.

 

Then comes Nick, reminding me I'm ecstatic at having shared substantially more with him. ;)

 

Apologies.....overreaction on my part. I panicked this thread my turn into a war zone.... :doh:

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Well They can certainly tangle with F-4's, and defeat them. I'm almost certain that in a turning fight the F-14 is outperformed by MiG-29, Su-27 and F-15 but it will for certain have an energy advantage over MiG-21, MiG-23 and F-5, however as mentioned it's quite a big and heavy fighter, so just like the F-15, the name of the game will be BVR and vertical energy fighting.

 

In the case of a human backseater, you'll also have the advantage of an extra pair of eyes to look around.

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Well They can certainly tangle with F-4's, and defeat them. I'm almost certain that in a turning fight the F-14 is outperformed by MiG-29, Su-27 and F-15 but it will for certain have an energy advantage over MiG-21, MiG-23 and F-5, however as mentioned it's quite a big and heavy fighter, so just like the F-15, the name of the game will be BVR and vertical energy fighting.

 

In the case of a human backseater, you'll also have the advantage of an extra pair of eyes to look around.

Beating the F-4 in turning isn't a huge accomplishment, but i would imagine that the F-14 would be quite capable in turning. All swing-wing fighters seem to be, well... The Tornado is an exception. It also has quite the pack of engines, but we'll have to see for our-self.

 

And of course, with the AIM-54's comes the possibility of calling yourself the king of long range (until someone decides to learn magic and get the documentation of a MiG-31 without the authorities noticing). Though the F-14 will be at an ordnance "disadvantage" at medium ranges.

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Though the F-14 will be at an ordnance "disadvantage" at medium ranges.

 

the aim--7 is a pretty capable missile. just takes a little more skill and cant turn the plane away. that gives it the same limitation as the su 27 so honestly feels fairly balanced. only disadvantage is against mig 29's with R-77 or f-15s with spamraams

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Beating the F-4 in turning isn't a huge accomplishment, but i would imagine that the F-14 would be quite capable in turning. All swing-wing fighters seem to be, well... The Tornado is an exception. It also has quite the pack of engines, but we'll have to see for our-self.

 

And of course, with the AIM-54's comes the possibility of calling yourself the king of long range (until someone decides to learn magic and get the documentation of a MiG-31 without the authorities noticing). Though the F-14 will be at an ordnance "disadvantage" at medium ranges.

 

Just read the previous rages regarding the turning capability of ALL fighters. The F-14 has better pitch and alpha than an F-16, but obviously can't sustain like an F-16 or fly as small a radius at that high of a rate, and cannot roll with an F-16.

 

swing-wing aircraft are not all equal. The Tornado- even the fighter F3, are made to excel at low level and were built for very high wing loading, which means horrible BFM performance. The F-14, when loaded with AIM-7s on the belly, has a lower wing loading than an F-15 and F-16 and will turn with them (slower and tighter) until the gas tank is empty. If you have AIm-54 pallets and tanks, the maneuverability suffers a bit, but maneuvering performance is still superior to any other swing wing aircraft built. If you take a take a combat loaded F-14 with full bags into an ACM environment, expect to lose if your enemy matches your skill. If you have AIM/AIM-9 and 50% fuel, you should be able to stay and play and have to watch out for superior Archer shots with helmet mounted sight, otherwise, it shouldn't be hard to stay with any jet.

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Well They can certainly tangle with F-4's, and defeat them. I'm almost certain that in a turning fight the F-14 is outperformed by MiG-29, Su-27 and F-15 ....

 

In the case of a human backseater, you'll also have the advantage of an extra pair of eyes to look around.

 

Actually, here is a gun camera shot illustrating the F-15 'outperforming' the Tomcat.

 

That's if by 'outperforming' you meant getting some 20mm shells in the head...:thumbup:

 

F-15-locked.jpg

 

Can't argue your second point thou, nice advantage indeed. Watching some actual Fighter Weapons School footage and the IP telling the pilot to forget about trying to keep tabs on the opponent and just fly the plane, your RIO has it covered!

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I live very close to Kingsley Field, which is home to the 173rd FW, Oregon Air Guard. The 173rd is the USAF F-15C training house, so they have *a lot* of very experienced, very capable, very driven Eagle drivers. A good friend of mine was a DCC there so I'd frequently get invited to come hang out when able since I also did some journalism work freelance for a few different websites and my college.

One afternoon when half of the squadron was in Australia playing with the RAAF I was over hanging out and after the afternoon flight ops a group of us, along with two of the IP's, went out for dinner at a local steak house. Obviously mostly we avoided "shop talk" but I did ask one of the IP's, who had been active duty at Kadena before coming to Oregon, what he thought of the Tomcat, since he had done DACT with Tomcats during WESTPAC's while at Kadena and other events.

 

It's been a while, so I'm paraphrasing a bit.

 

F-14A: TomKitty with a distinct grape tinge (aka ripe for the picking). Great instant turn rate and good pitch authority but all you had to do was run them out of energy. When fighting them all you needed to do was bleed them down, and once the cat was wings out, slow and wallowing a bit, all you needed to do was plug the cans, go vertical, convert, use a bit of Gods G's (aka rolling over and pulling down) and drill him..pretty simple. They couldn't aggressively use the throttles so if you learned to read them you could see them planning out ahead and planning their energy and since the (F-15)C had the DEEC so we could throw the throttles around pretty much carefree where they(Alpha Cats) had to handle them like they were glass.

 

F-14B: Totally different..they could turn and turn and turn and turn and when they didn't want to turn they'd run from you and you're up shits creek trying to catch them. The only other jet I saw move with more authority for it's size were the RooVarks (RAAF F-111C's). They were a bit more simple than the Supers (F-14D's) and you could see a nugget struggle since it was a lot of power in a old jet. Towards the end the Tomcats were more focused on blowing up camels than killing jets so their knife fighting got a bit rusty..but that's more the guy than the jet.

 

F-14D: Pretty much the same as the B but with the digital stick (DFCS) they were much easier for the pilots to fly, and were harder to kill since the big cans (F110's) and the digital controls meant the pilot could pretty much focus all their energy on killing us..which they did pretty much on par with us killing them. I thought the Eagle was big but the Tomcat you could VID it and keep tally without problem.

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Actually, here is a gun camera shot illustrating the F-15 'outperforming' the Tomcat.

 

That's if by 'outperforming' you meant getting some 20mm shells in the head...:thumbup:

 

F-15-locked.jpg

 

Can't argue your second point thou, nice advantage indeed. Watching some actual Fighter Weapons School footage and the IP telling the pilot to forget about trying to keep tabs on the opponent and just fly the plane, your RIO has it covered!

 

The famous photo by Joe “Hoser” Satrapa...

 

I figured that reply was coming ! :D

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The only other jet I saw move with more authority for it's size were the RooVarks (RAAF F-111C's).

wow what, this has me really intrigued. does that carry a heavy disclaimer "for its size" or what?

 

or maybe they shouldn't have canned the 111b after all??? ;)

МИР

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Actually, here is a gun camera shot illustrating the F-15 'outperforming' the Tomcat.

 

That's if by 'outperforming' you meant getting some 20mm shells in the head...:thumbup:

 

F-15-locked.jpg

 

Can't argue your second point thou, nice advantage indeed. Watching some actual Fighter Weapons School footage and the IP telling the pilot to forget about trying to keep tabs on the opponent and just fly the plane, your RIO has it covered!

This was one of the only times a turkey got the drop on an eagle.

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Oh please.

So you have access to a long list of wins of F-14s vs F-15s? An F-14 victory over an F-15 are very notably few and far between...and this gunsight picture of this particular event was smuggled out by the films developer to give this pilot/rio a trophy of sort. How many others exist? Not many at all.

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So you have access to a long list of wins of F-14s vs F-15s? An F-14 victory over an F-15 are very notably few and far between...and this gunsight picture of this particular event was smuggled out by the films developer to give this pilot/rio a trophy of sort. How many others exist? Not many at all.

 

#herewegoagain.

 

#blessyourheart


Edited by turkeydriver

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This was one of the only times a turkey got the drop on an eagle.

 

But what about all these other times?

 

1395576578292882466.jpg

 

Gulf_War_007_of_374_Desert_Shield_1990.gif

 

Gulf_War_007_of_374_Desert_Shield_19901.gif

 

Fighter_Fling_2004.gif

 

Fighter_Fling_20041.gif

 

F_14_versus_Everything_with_soundtrack4.gif

 

F-15_gunned.jpg

 

Would you show me a shot of a F-14 with a F-15 pipper over it? You don't need to find 7 like I did, just 2 would be great. It seems easy to find video of F-14s gunning F-15s, but not the other way around.... :D

 

-Nick

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Well all that proves is that the Navy is pretty lax on releasing HUD video.

 

War story time. Time frame 1986ish, I'm an IWSO in the Chiefs (335 TFS) out of Shady J. We get a call from the Enemy (the US Navy; the Soviets were the Adversary) that they (an F-14 unit on a boat returning from a cruise) wanted some DACT against our ARN-101 F-4E. So OK, we agree on time and date and location in the Whiskey areas off the coast of NC for some 2 v 2.

 

Then we call the Marine AV-8C (these were the original guns and 9M/L British-built Marine Harriers, not the fancy new AV-8Bs) squadron at MCAS Cherry Point and ask if they would be interested in joining us in bitch slapping some NAVY F-14s? Immediate ROGER THAT!, and the planning starts...

 

We end up with a two ship of F-4Es in combat spread, with an AV-8 in tight finger tip (radar resolution cell) on each F-4, going against a 2-ship of F-14s off the boat. ROE was AIM-7s/9s/gun. As soon as the Tomcats locked us up, we dragged and chaffed, while the Harriers post-holed into the bottom block and started looking for the turkeys. Which they promptly ID's (as the Toms were chasing us in our highly visible smoking Phantoms bugging out at the speed of heat) and proceeded to run a vertical conversion from below to a guns tracking solution on both Tomcats, unseen. As the Toms broke to defend against the Harriers, we pitched back into the fight for the classic F-4 slashing Fox-1/Fox-2/snapshot Guns/ Extent and repeat attack on the now slow and busy Tomcats...

 

Result: Both F-14s killed, no losses on the AF/Marine side. Cheating is great!

 

So - It's not about individual aircraft performance, it's ALL about tactics. And being sneaky.

 

Vulture

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So - It's not about individual aircraft performance, it's ALL about tactics. And being sneaky.

 

Exactly! I totally agree on this front, which is why I am so skeptical of the F-15's claim that they never lose to Tomcats.

 

It's the man, not the machine and every encounter is an opportunity to win or lose irrespective of what you are flying.

 

-Nick

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