Next aircraft speculation

[Ryan Legend]

What will happen if is not Viggen? Must stock up them popcorns

 

This will happen to the minds of the forum members :D

 

${1}

 

[Gladman]

That thing cant dogfight.

What a prey in MP.

 

There's a lot more to DCS than multiplayer. I have most of the modules and only fly 2 or 3 of them online.

[Arden]

There's a lot more to DCS than multiplayer. I have most of the modules and only fly 2 or 3 of them online.

 

Aye

 

If for instance, they'd add in the SR-71, I'd buy it, and I'd fly it, even though it's not really useful in MP.

I'd still do it

[King_Hrothgar]

Um... if you're blitzing him at Mach 2.5, all he needs to do is turn towards you and fire an AMRAAM. You'll never get into position for a heater shot, speed was a fantastic trick in an age before missiles, but now... well if you're coming at me at Mach 2.5 you're just increasing the closure rate for my missiles.

 

I've shot down plenty of human F-15's by sneaking up behind them for a guns/heater shot. The MiG-25PD would actually make this much easier than it is with the current aircraft in DCS. Now yes, if they noticed you, you'd have to break off. Flying into their amraams at mach 2 is not at all helpful. But at that speed, it's pretty easy to outrun one. And yes, there is more than just MP. I split my DCS time between MP and SP by about half and half. One of my favorite SP planes is the Su-25A, but you are unlikely to see me in it in MP. I'm not sure where the MiG-25 would fall, but I think it would be a favorite for me in both SP and MP. It's an interesting plane with unique capabilities, even against much more modern aircraft.

[Tirak]

I've shot down plenty of human F-15's by sneaking up behind them for a guns/heater shot. The MiG-25PD would actually make this much easier than it is with the current aircraft in DCS. Now yes, if they noticed you, you'd have to break off. Flying into their amraams at mach 2 is not at all helpful. But at that speed, it's pretty easy to outrun one. And yes, there is more than just MP. I split my DCS time between MP and SP by about half and half. One of my favorite SP planes is the Su-25A, but you are unlikely to see me in it in MP. I'm not sure where the MiG-25 would fall, but I think it would be a favorite for me in both SP and MP. It's an interesting plane with unique capabilities, even against much more modern aircraft.

 

I would make a bet though that you were able to sneak in close because you came in low. A MiG-25 can't do that if you want to hit the full speed envelope and make yourself impossible to catch after the shot. It's frankly and ugly and not particularly effective plane for multiplayer. Single player hunting bombers, sure, but it's no real danger to a fighter.

[King_Hrothgar]

I prefer to come from an unexpected direction rather than try to hide in the mountains. It's a more reliable attack method I find. Greater speed would be helpful for that kind of tactic.

[Tirak]

I just don't see you getting the drop on an F-15 flight that's paying attention. Sure you can pick off Captain Headdown. If you don't get spotted on radar, which is a huge if so long as you're not in the weeds, you're a gigantic target to be physically seen. Maybe against old aircraft with poor situational awareness, but not F-15s.

[King_Hrothgar]

It is off topic but one of the mods merged the MiG-25 thread into this one. So I'm not too sure where that leaves us. I know, let's make it on topic. I predict the MiG-25PD will be LNS's project after the F-14. I base this on absolutely nothing. :P

Edited October 24, 2015 by King_Hrothgar

[Hook47]

It is off topic but one of the mods merged the MiG-25 thread into this one. So I'm not too sure where that leaves us. I know, let's make it on topic. I predict the MiG-25PD will be LNS's project after the F-14. I base this on absolutely nothing. :P

 

Hey nothing would make me happier than getting more MiGs! I think the mods tried to merge all the major speculation threads into this. Im glad because I nearly flipped my crap when I saw a DCS: Viggen thread, thinking it was the official announcement, and found out it was just another speculation thread created by some forum goer.

[Farlander]

People who live because of turns won't understand the purpose of the MiG-25.

 

It's getting rediculous.. Why can't we just agree that planes have different advantages and disadvantages, and flown to their strenghts they can all be lethal.

 

I can already think of several tactics in a MiG-25 that could work against the F-15 as well as tacrics for the F-15 vs. MiG-25..

[Farlander]

People who live because of turns won't understand the purpose of the MiG-25.

 

It's getting rediculous.. Why can't we just agree that planes have different advantages and disadvantages, and flown to their strenghts they can all be lethal.

 

I can already think of several tactics in a MiG-25 that could work against the F-15 as well as tacrics for the F-15 vs. MiG-25..

[BlackLion213]

People who live because of turns won't understand the purpose of the MiG-25.

 

I can already think of several tactics in a MiG-25 that could work against the F-15 as well as tacrics for the F-15 vs. MiG-25..

 

Well, the MiG-25 did shoot down an F/A-18C during the Gulf War (during a self-escort strike mission), so there is no doubt that a MiG-25 could shoot down an F-15 under the right circumstances. I think it's more a question of how often those ideal circumstances would occur.

 

I find the MiG-25 to be very impressive since it offers near-SR-71 performance with the maintainability and operational demands that are similar to other 3rd generation Soviet fighters, unlike the SR-71 which is hugely demanding to get in the air.

 

That said, it's telling that more than half of all MiG-25s were the recon variant. That is a mission that plays to the MiG-25s strengths, flying high and fast.

 

But if I had to take a 3rd gen Soviet fighter into combat, I would take the MiG-23 over the MiG-25 since it has a wider set of strengths and I think the Soviets would agree - they built 10x as many MiG-23s than fighter versions of the MiG-25.

 

At least, thats what I've gathered from my reading.

 

-Nick

[greco.bernardi]

My last guess...Mig24m and Tornado!

[Farlander]

Well, the MiG-25 did shoot down an F/A-18C during the Gulf War (during a self-escort strike mission), so there is no doubt that a MiG-25 could shoot down an F-15 under the right circumstances. I think it's more a question of how often those ideal circumstances would occur.

 

I find the MiG-25 to be very impressive since it offers near-SR-71 performance with the maintainability and operational demands that are similar to other 3rd generation Soviet fighters, unlike the SR-71 which is hugely demanding to get in the air.

 

That said, it's telling that more than half of all MiG-25s were the recon variant. That is a mission that plays to the MiG-25s strengths, flying high and fast.

 

But if I had to take a 3rd gen Soviet fighter into combat, I would take the MiG-23 over the MiG-25 since it has a wider set of strengths and I think the Soviets would agree - they built 10x as many MiG-23s than fighter versions of the MiG-25.

 

At least, thats what I've gathered from my reading.

 

-Nick

 

Agreed. Id buy the heck out of the MiG-23 too, but i definately think a MiG-25 could add some more challenge in multiplayer. Remember, in a multiplayer cenario it's not always 1v1 ;) I susppect a MiG-25 working together with planes like the MiG-29 could be quite effective.

 

But you are right, a MiG-23 should probably be higher priority :)

[Pilum]

Well assuming it’s the Viggen and the hints indicating that it’s the attack version with the RB-04 are true then I think this is a strange choice.

 

Not only do they have to develop the plane, they also have to make the RB-04 and get a reasonable FM and sensor suite for that missile up and running which seems quite challenging. They also need to do the Baltic scenario and top that up with some interesting ships to target. The attack versions only had Sidewinders for self-defence so a2a with the AJ is not going to rock my boat. Adding all that up it seems like a lot of work.

 

However, since DCS is mostly about a2a then I think they could have made it easier on themselves and done the JA-37 instead. The JA-37 can carry the full suite of a2a ordnance with different versions of AMRAAM, Sky Flash and Sidewinders (already implemented in DCS) and could be interesting to fly in the DCS environment against the Su-27 and F-15 without adding any new map scenarios. In fact, in its late life, I think a lot of thought in the JA-37 program centered (both in terms of equipment and tactics) on how to counter the threat posed by the Su-27 family so suitable opposition is already there in the sim.

 

Also looking at this from a sales perspective I think the DCS consumer base for a potent fighter is far larger than for a Sidewinder armed ground pounder.

 

But sure, I will get the AJ-37 if it’s as good as Mig-21. It’s just I would have preferred and also think the JA-37 would have been the better choice for LNS……..

Edited October 25, 2015 by Pilum
corrected some grammar

[Dahlbeck]

However, since DCS is mostly about a2a...

 

I think there are quite a few Hog, SU-25 and KA-50 drivers here that would argue about that.

[WinterH]

People I fly with are so much more into A-G than A-A, I can be considered among that line of preference too.

 

Infact, in context of 70s-80s 3rd & early 4th gen aircraft scene, it makes more sense to make somewhat multirolish AJ which can do some A-A in a pinch, while being a pretty good supersonic strike / antiship aircraft.

 

Contrarily I believe AJ would be a better selling, more all around option (and if it really is Viggen, who says we won't eventually get multiple versions like the case with F-14A & B).

[Pilum]

Well, each to his own but I still think the total effort to do a JA-37 meaning no need to do a RB-04, no Baltic map and no ships etc and just adding the JA-37 like they did the Mig-21 would require much less effort and I definitely think the JA-37 is a hotter ship but sure, if ground pounding is what you prefer I can see your point. OTOH I still believe there is a larger customer base for the JA-37 but of course that is just my $0.02. :)

[BlackLion213]

Well, each to his own but I still think the total effort to do a JA-37 meaning no need to do a RB-04, no Baltic map and no ships etc and just adding the JA-37 like they did the Mig-21 would require much less effort and I definitely think the JA-37 is a hotter ship but sure, if ground pounding is what you prefer I can see your point. OTOH I still believe there is a larger customer base for the JA-37 but of course that is just my $0.02. :)

 

It would be less effort to do a JA-37 in the Black Sea Map, but it would also be much less interesting and still "mis-placed". I think that Leatherneck's primary goal with their pending releases (all 3 of them) is to create a total simulation, not just the aircraft. Having the right map, AI, etc is MUCH more compelling and really addresses the classic criticism of the current DCS environment.

 

So which ever version they picked (if it's the Viggen), it will probably have the right Map in any case.

 

I certainly think there is a larger market for a "complete sim" than simply adding another A2A aircraft of any sort. There are so many more potential and realistic scenarios for the complete sim.

 

Plus, it might seem like the JA-37 has a bigger potential market, with the Mirage 2000C due out in a couple months (not to mention the F-14), it would have a lot more market competition and might not sell as well.

 

-Nick

[Pilum]

It would be less effort to do a JA-37 in the Black Sea Map, but it would also be much less interesting and still "mis-placed". I think that Leatherneck's primary goal with their pending releases (all 3 of them) is to create a total simulation, not just the aircraft. Having the right map, AI, etc is MUCH more compelling and really addresses the classic criticism of the current DCS environment.

 

So which ever version they picked (if it's the Viggen), it will probably have the right Map in any case.

 

I certainly think there is a larger market for a "complete sim" than simply adding another A2A aircraft of any sort. There are so many more potential and realistic scenarios for the complete sim.

 

Plus, it might seem like the JA-37 has a bigger potential market, with the Mirage 2000C due out in a couple months (not to mention the F-14), it would have a lot more market competition and might not sell as well.

 

-Nick

 

I'm with you IF they manage to pull all of that off. But doing all that seems like a HUGE undertaking compared to "just" doing a plane so I really hope they don't choke on it.

 

OTOH, being a Swede you will not see me complaining if they model the Baltic and Gotland. :thumbup:

[Hook47]

I couldn't disagree more with the remark about DCS being "more about A2A" as it's clear it's meant to be about all forms of air based combat.

 

It's funny, I certainly consider myself a huge fast mover fan and I love A2A but I think I actually find myself hoping we get the ground attack variant of the Viggen more than the interceptor! After all, the interceptor field isn't far behind the trainer field when it comes to being crowded! What with the MiG 21 and M2000 already out or close to it, and the F-5 in the pipe

[BlackLion213]

I'm with you IF they manage to pull all of that off. But doing all that seems like a HUGE undertaking compared to "just" doing a plane so I really hope they don't choke on it.

 

OTOH, being a Swede you will not see me complaining if they model the Baltic and Gotland. :thumbup:

 

Yes, it seems quite ambitious, but they keep saying that they have theaters for release with their 2 modules. Plus, all of their updates still say a release this year with the theaters shortly thereafter.

 

I hear that LNS is now ~10-12 people, so they do seem to have a lot of manpower - 3x more than they had for the MiG-21. We'll see if they can pull it off. This part why I'm so anxious to see these theaters or at least know more about them.

 

-Nick

[Pilum]

An example of a Baltic scenario where the AJ-37 would fit in: The linked clip shows recorded PPI films from a Swedish radar station on Gotland. Again, it's in Swedish but there are some nice Baltic scenarios included in which the pictures do the talking: One (about 19:30 into the clip) is a WP exercise in which 20 Su-24's, 15 Tu-16's and 6 An-12's practice. The scenario begins with a column of An-12's (EW-versions) that fly out west and start laying chaff and then turn north. The accompanying Tu-16's then unleash heavy jamming at about 20:10. According to the speaker, about 100 WP a/c in total participated in the exercise.

 

If this would have been a hot Baltic scenario, you can be sure there would have been plenty ships steaming west with sea-skimming AJ-37's unleashing swarms of RB-04 as well. :music_whistling:

 

[Brisse]

you can be sure there would have been plenty ships steaming west with sea-skimming AJ-37's unleashing swarms of RB-04 as well. :music_whistling:

 

As well as RB-15's launched from ships.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Brisse
Fixed mistake

[Pilum]

And let's not forget the Rb-15F: AFAIK the AJ-37's were upgraded to be able to carry that as well and that is a way more advanced missile much more difficult to spoof.