Alps A320 Crash

[Aginor]

:(

[shagrat]

GW rep said on n-tv the plane was overhauled in 2013, not 2014.

 

Yesterday the plane was grounded for many hours due to a wheel door problem, which Lufthansa said is not critical at all and moist likely not

associated with the tragedy.

 

 

 

My thoughts are with the parents as many children were on board.

 

Lost... forever...so many young lives

 

 

Bit in tears

Yep, picked that up wrong, overhaul in 2013, not 2014. Yet, regular maintenance schedule and no abnormal problems.

[Dudikoff]

The AoA sensor freeze could be an option as supposedly they had a somewhat similar symptoms last November:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11492988/Why-did-Germanwings-Airbus-A320-crash.html

[dagandolfo]

It is strange that the descent was controlled, ie constant rate and airspeed which doesn't suggest mid air collision or an emergency (IMHO).

Only time will tell when the investigations gather more information.

 

Whatever the cause it is very sad news.

[shagrat]

Yes, but it was mentionend they noticed and fixed that more or less immediately. The pilots should have noticed that in a 8minutes decent. Another source said something about the autopilot/sensor systems were checked and partially replaced after November's incident.

Too many speculations, too little facts at the moment.

Hope they find the black box.

[Azrayen]

The AoA sensor freeze could be an option as supposedly they had a somewhat similar symptoms last November

 

No. Symptoms were NOT similar. Facts from yesterday clearly dismiss that possibility.

That's just noise from journos (and perhaps the usual anti-Airbus mafia).

 

----

 

Terrorist involvment is also very UNLIKELY to say the least (unless thinking inside job).

Edited March 26, 2015 by Azrayen

[Dudikoff]

Yes, but it was mentionend they noticed and fixed that more or less immediately. The pilots should have noticed that in a 8minutes decent. Another source said something about the autopilot/sensor systems were checked and partially replaced after November's incident.

Too many speculations, too little facts at the moment.

 

That's true, but the article says that in the November case, they only regained control of the plane after they've shutdown the "onboard computers". Now the pilots should have been familiar with that case and all, but the Air France A330 crash showed that the human factor should not be ruled out (where IIRC the inexperienced co-pilot was constantly stalling the plane by pulling on the stick and the captain failed to recognize that).

[Dustoff74]

serious emergency descent should be ~15.000-20.000 fpm what can cause a panic onboard immediately (steep bank with negative G at the start) but that extreme RoD can save lives, imho (if there is no structural problem)

t

 

That's not how it works in airliners. Standard procedure for emergency descent would be to select FL100, or lowest safe altitude over terrain, Speed Vmo/Mmo, Flightlevel change/speedmode, extend flightspoilers/airbrake. The autothrottle will throttle back to idle and the aircraft descends with max operating speed. There are no steep banks involved and while you might get a slight reduction in g, depending on the autopilot, you will not get negative g.

Resulting descent rate, depending on aircraft and weight will be less than 10.000 fpm. You can't have 15.000-20.000 fpm in an airliner without overspeeding it. An emergency descent in real live is far less dramatic, than it sounds like.

 

 

My thoughts are with our dear colleagues of 4U9525 and their families. See you in the skies.

[Laurius]

Hi,

from the latest news, the pilot wasn't in the cockpit when the plane crashed. Even worse, he was prevented from coming back in as the door was locked from the inside.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11491587/Airbus-A320-crashes-in-French-Alps-with-148-people-on-board-live.html

 

My thoughts to the victims and everyone affected by this tragedy

[NRG-Vampire]

Even worse, he was prevented from coming back in as the door was locked from the inside.

:surprise:

 

getting weird:

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer, and then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer. You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.” :fear:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/one-pilot-locked-out-germanwings-planes-cockpit-4u9525-claims-new-york-times

[Blech]

Hi,

 

A horrible news, if true

 

Germanwings Co-Pilot Deliberately Crashed Airbus Jet, French Prosecutor Says

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/world/europe/germanwings-crash.html?_r=0

[NeilWillis]

What a futile gesture!

 

If he deliberately crashed the plane, what motive could he have had? I feel for his, and every other family devastated by this awful crash.

[JaNk0]

Follow on this site, live update/coverage

 

http://www.airlive.net/2015/03/video-a320-cockpit-door-description-and.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

German press conference right now, Posted 14.40 CET

[genbrien]

autopilot was set manually from FL380 to 100'

 

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/581073962274328576/photo/1

[shagrat]

The facts seem to point at a suicide by the co-pilot... Whatever his reasons, whatever the world has done to him, there is no excuse or justification for what he did! :(

[Abburo]

sad ... so sad !

[mig29movt]

Does any one know if the door lock switch (forgot the upper one-NORM-LOCK) is self-resetting like the A-10s motor switch (on the IGN position)

It was said in TV, that the A320 has a numeric keypad to enter the security code outside of the cockpit, but you can block the code being of any use for 5-20 min by setting the switch to LOCK.

 

I personally would like to have it this way: pilot left the cockpit, the switch was accidentally place in the LOCK position, the Co-pilot set the initial descending path and passed out due to any unknown reason

Every different explanation would be horrible :fear:

[dagandolfo]

Oh my God!.

 

If the news it true this is the most shocking thing I've ever heard! deliberately crashing a plane and killing all those innocent passengers, what kind of person would do such a thing?

 

If he wanted to top himself why not just jump off a tall building or drive off a cliff, why take everyone else with him.

 

Im shocked and appalled that a human being could do such a thing. How can someone that disturbed slip through the net and become a pilot?

[NineLine]

Does any one know if the door lock switch (forgot the upper one-NORM-LOCK) is self-resetting like the A-10s motor switch (on the IGN position)

It was said in TV, that the A320 has a numeric keypad to enter the security code outside of the cockpit, but you can block the code being of any use for 5-20 min by setting the switch to LOCK.

 

I personally would like to have it this way: pilot left the cockpit, the switch was accidentally place in the LOCK position, the Co-pilot set the initial descending path and passed out due to any unknown reason

Every different explanation would be horrible :fear:

 

That's the way I understood it, that the co-pilot would be able to block the code from being used for a length of time.

[rcjonessnp175]

Oh my God!.

 

If the news it true this is the most shocking thing I've ever heard! deliberately crashing a plane and killing all those innocent passengers, what kind of person would do such a thing?

 

If he wanted to top himself why not just jump off a tall building or drive off a cliff, why take everyone else with him.

 

Im shocked and appalled that a human being could do such a thing. How can someone that disturbed slip through the net and become a pilot?

 

This day and age and what's going on in the world right now it's not shocking. That being said it's unfortunate lives lost due to a fatal flaw in cockpit security.

Edited March 26, 2015 by rcjonessnp175

[dagandolfo]

Does any one know if the door lock switch (forgot the upper one-NORM-LOCK) is self-resetting like the A-10s motor switch (on the IGN position)

 

I actually have some pdf copies of A320 manuals somewhere at home from when I was flying the A320 for a virtual airline, If I can find them when I'm back home this weekend I'll see what it says about the operation of this switch.

[wingnut]

I don't believe this is the first time something like this has happened.

 

Although uncommon, such incidents are not unheard of. Since the mid-1970s, air-crash investigations have brought to light eight others in which intentional actions by a pilot or co-pilot to bring down an aircraft were either confirmed or suspected.

 

The loss of Germanwings Flight 4U 9525 could take its place next to two others as the deadliest crashes in this category:

 

Dec. 19, 1997: SilkAir Flight 185, a Boeing 737 en route from Jakarta to Singapore crashes in Indonesia, killing all 104 passengers and crew.

 

The plane was cruising smoothly at 35,000 feet when it suddenly began a rapid descent from which it never recovered, crashing into a river jungle in Palembang on the island of Sumatra. Indonesian authorities were never able to determine a cause of the crash, but they rejected suicide as a possibility.

 

However, U.S. investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board concluded "that the captain may have committed suicide by switching off both flight recorders and intentionally putting the Boeing 737 in a dive, possibly when the first officer had left the flight deck," according to Aviation Safety Network.

 

The BBC writes:

 

"In a letter to Indonesian investigators this week, the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said there was nothing wrong with the plane and "the accident can be explained by intentional pilot action".

"The NTSB said investigations showed [Capt. Tsu Way Ming], once a stunt flyer with the Singapore Air Force, was in serious debt from financial market speculation and had been reprimanded by management several times in the weeks before the crash."

Oct. 31, 1999: EgyptAir Flight 990, a Boeing 767 en route from Los Angeles to Cairo, crashes about 60 miles south of Nantucket Island, Mass., killing all 217 aboard.

 

After a scheduled intermediate stop at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, the plane took off again bound for its intended destination, Cairo.

 

Shortly after takeoff, the relief first officer, Capt. Gamil el Batouty, asked to relieve the command first officer at the controls three hours before his shift was to begin. His request was granted, and el Batouty proceeded to level the plane at 33,000 feet.

 

Eight minutes later, the command captain left the flight deck to go to the toilet.

 

Within a few minutes of reaching cruising altitude, el Batouty relieved the command first officer, something The Atlantic says was "unusual" because "with standard EgyptAir and international procedures, flights of 990's duration carry two crews — a command crew consisting of a lead pilot and first officer and a relief crew with the same complement. The lead pilot and first officer are responsible for departure and arrival as well as the first third and last third of the flight."

 

In a chilling transcript of the flight's final moments, el Batouty can be heard saying to himself, "I rely on God." According to ASN, "the throttle levers were moved from their cruise power setting to idle, and, one second later, the FDR [flight data recorder] recorded an abrupt nose-down elevator movement and a very slight movement of the inboard ailerons."

 

The captain, from the flight deck, can be heard asking loudly, "What's happening? What's happening?" El Batouty is heard saying, "I rely on God," a dozen more time before the plane crashes.

 

Egyptian investigators refused to label the crash a pilot suicide. NTSB officials concluded in 2002 that Flight 990 crashed due "as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs," but said it could not determine the reason for el Batouty's actions.

[wingnut]

The door switch is a self centering toggle switch back to the NORM position.

[GeorgeLKMT]

ixEHV7c3VXs

[NRG-Vampire]

things are stink

 

why the co-pilot waited 30 minutes (after takeoff) to that "action" ?

 

why the co-pilot slowed down the aircraft on that flat descent ? and why not went down vertically with full power ? - much higher chance to destroy evidences/black boxes in a mach1 impact

 

why the co-pilot wanted to kill 149 innocent people ? and why they didnt want to kill hundreds/thousands more in a densely populated area crash (center of Marseille?)

 

things are stink

Edited March 26, 2015 by NRG-Vampire