Jump to content

Would like two things cleared up :S


SimonColt
 Share

Recommended Posts

First thing is the whole SFM and EFM mess.

 

I bought the plane off steam, will I be able to get the EFM either for free, or a small "upgrade" fee once its out, or will i be forced to pay full price again?

 

Second thing is that I cannot get the communications menu to open. I've pressed the default bind, changed it myself as well, but nothing works.

 

Any idea whats going on?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There will be a $10 upgrade to EFM both on ED store and steam, Both site and steam are selling the SFM version, If you want however pre order the EFM off the veao site, I believe there team is looking into the upgrade happy flying :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think in the future no 3rd party dev would venture into this SFM / EFM confusion marketing gimmick. So many people are fighting to understand it that I think the little gain does not worth it.

 

Although is something actually easy and natural to understand. EFM is not ready so no matter what version you buy you get the base SFM... pretty obvious, no? Secondly if you pay the bigger price... obviously you get the version with the upgrade option included. If you pay the lower price... doh... you get just the base SFM and you will need to pay the difference when EFM is ready.

 

True, then comes the pre-sale discount and messes all up for many :D.

 

 

I don't know if VEAO or AvioDev have counted the money lost due to helping people to understand the difference between product pricing but I think is not 0. My opinion is that the confusion and money lost, and the low gain could have been foreseen and the whole gimmick just dropped from beginning. Just one single product with EFM upgrade included and all would have been happy.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for confirmation

 

Yes you will need the $10 upgrade fee, it wont be a free upgrade as the aircraft is only priced at $39.99 and not $49.99.

 

We are looking into ways that people who buy the aircraft on steam will be able to buy the upgrade from us and have it activated on steam. No confirmation from us that you will be able to do this via steam yet.

 

Radios have been temp removed while we re-work them as mentioned above they were causing crashes.

 

As for the EFM / SFM confusion, I really dont understand why everyone is so confused. Buy SFM you get SFM, buy EFM you get EFM (when its available), if you want to upgrade from SFM to EFM its $10.

 

Pman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion only PFM should deserve the "DCS" title in a module's name.
Then you should have noticed that the e-shop refers to it as "Hawk T.1A for DCS World" instead of "DCS T.1A Hawk." This is consistent with the naming convention for the flaming cliffs modules which have PFM but exclude ASM.

 

If you are referring to the future upgrade, an EFM is not necessarily worse than a PFM. It just means it was made without ED's proprietary flight model code. PFM might as well be called EDFM.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole 'mess" also relates to VEAO being so kind and offering the Hawk as early as possible to the community. So when the SFM was available and EFM is in the works.

We can now fly the Hawk in beta already, and as soon as the EFM is available, we can either upgrade, or we already have the EFM pre-purchased.

 

I don't think it has anything to do, with pricing. As PMan said the SFM was $39.90 and with the upgrade you pay the same $49.90 as for any other standard module.

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 32GB | GeForce RTX 2080S - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs | a hand made UFC | AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless you count FC3, yes.

ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then you should have noticed that the e-shop refers to it as "Hawk T.1A for DCS World" instead of "DCS T.1A Hawk." This is consistent with the naming convention for the flaming cliffs modules which have PFM but exclude ASM.

 

Afaik AvioDev's C101 is also SFM for now with EFM in the works just like Hawk, and the name is DCS: C-101 Aviojet by AvioDev

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/c-101_aviojet/

 

Also, the name hint would be confusing because F15C and Su-27 have PFM but SSM (instead of ASM)... Not that I don't understand the difference but most of the people that can't figure out the SFM/EFM upgrade dilemma on Hawk would be totally confused by this naming "hint".


Edited by zaelu

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Afaik AvioDev's C101 is also SFM for now with EFM in the works just like Hawk, and the name is DCS: C-101 Aviojet by AvioDev

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/c-101_aviojet/

 

Also, the name hint would be confusing because F15C and Su-27 have PFM but SSM (instead of ASM)... Not that I don't understand the difference but most of the people that can't figure out the SFM/EFM upgrade dilemma on Hawk would be totally confused by this naming "hint".

 

Difference is the AvioDev team aren't selling two seperate products for the C-101. They're selling (and you're paying for) an EFM level product, you're just getting an interim SFM version while they finish said EFM.

 

Either way, this discussion should stop here, the Hawk SFM vs EFM product has been done to death. All that's needed is a proper sticky FAQ at the top of this section to point people at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's all fairly simple. I bought the SFM through the DCS module manager. When EFM becomes available I will upgrade through VEAO/Steam. The only thing I would like to see is the upgrade become available through the DCS module manager as it is a more streamlined installation process. I don't think it's a mess, it clearly states in bold SFM on the module manager run down before you purchase, so there's no issue. If people aren't reading through the details pre-purchase then either A: They can afford to part with the money without a concern; Or B: They are careless with their funds.

 

Either way the VEAO are not at fault for offering a choice to their customers.

My Youtube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqH078Ef0HENo01LF3xwIvA

Twitter: @CrashLaobi

All of my opinions are my own and are just opinions, as a result they as useless as the opinions of others!

 

My Specs: PC, Chair, Desk, Screen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep my DCS away from steam all the time because I don't like that association.

Anyway I bought the Hawk, and what can I say. It's still early on, but weill get just fine.

 

I hope VEAO don't rush the other modules at the expense of the improving of the Hawk though.

I had previously conviced myself not to buy WW2 and trainer modules.

For the Hawk I did an exception, and I think I'll be doing another one when the L-39 comes out.

Anyway, I'm eager to see where this module will go..

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Intel i7 6700K @ 4.2, MSI M5 Z170A Gaming, NZXT X61 Kraken liquid cooler, PNY Nvidia GTX 1080 Founders Edition, 16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 Mhz C15, samsung 840 evo SSD, CoolerMaster 1000W Gold rated PSU, NZXT Noctis 450 cabinet, Samsung S240SW 24' 1920x1200 LED panel, X-52 Pro Flight stick. W10 Pro x64 1809, NO antivirus EVER

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the EFM / SFM confusion, I really dont understand why everyone is so confused. Buy SFM you get SFM, buy EFM you get EFM (when its available), if you want to upgrade from SFM to EFM its $10.

 

Pman

It is pretty easy to understand the confusion when keeping in mind that ED customers are used to other modules getting FM upgrades with no additional charge.

Yes, the Hawk is advertized in the ED Shop explicitly with "Standard Flight Model (SFM) included." But as a returning customer I would have understood this as a hint only, to not expect a EFM/PFM right from the beginning.

I can understand everybody being surprised to learn later he has to pay again for the upgraded FM. If I hadn't stumbled over these discussions, I never would have guessed this.

 

There is nothing wrong with a higher price for the better FM. But I am pretty sure you would have done better to sell for the higher price only, offering the EFM as a patch for free. Because this is how it worked around here in DCS World in the past. Since you deviated from that system, you caused some confusion, which probably wasn't worth the negative attention, only to avoid a price tag 10 bucks higher.

 

Quite simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said earlier, the decision was not so much driven by the "price tag", but the idea to have the first " flyable" version of the Hawk available for the community as early as possible, especially as a lot of people where pretty eager to get their hands on it.

Now, you try to make it sound like a greedy business decision, to "fool people" into buying an SFM plane and pay "extra" for the EFM which is NOT what happened.

VEAO clearly announced that they would need time to finish the EFM so they offer to release the SFM version (which was available faster) when they released presales. In the same announcement they offered the EFM pre purchase and clearly said any SFM customer can update to the EFM with an overall payment similar to the EFM direct purchase!

No tricks, no evasive word twisting, simple buy SFM for $39,90 and add EFM later for $10 or buy EFM including(!) access to SFM now for the same $49,90.

 

So what is the negative aspect here?

I only see a positive one. People who want easy access to DCS and an optional plane with clickable cockpit, but easier to fly as it has SFM have the Hawk now.

A good move for a trainer aircraft.

And the additional plus of $10 saved, opposed to your argument.

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 32GB | GeForce RTX 2080S - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs | a hand made UFC | AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shagrat, if you were replying to me, I really don't see my last post making it sound like anything like that.

I simply explained how some people might get confused.

 

I welcome the idea to offer people easy access to a beta module this early. I just don't see why reducing the price was necessary. Bill it for the EFM and deliver the EFM later, would have been fine with most of customers (I bet) and would have spared any confusion.

I also don't see any of those who had a hard time understanding what is going on blaming anyone for fooling people. I perceived all discussions as nothing else than some discontent about misunderstanding of this new approach VEAO took here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shagrat, if you were replying to me, I really don't see my last post making it sound like anything like that.

I simply explained how some people might get confused.

 

I welcome the idea to offer people easy access to a beta module this early. I just don't see why reducing the price was necessary. Bill it for the EFM and deliver the EFM later, would have been fine with most of customers (I bet) and would have spared any confusion.

I also don't see any of those who had a hard time understanding what is going on blaming anyone for fooling people. I perceived all discussions as nothing else than some discontent about misunderstanding of this new approach VEAO took here.

 

The answer is quite simple. :)

 

Not everyone wants EFM and those that are quite happy with SFM (of which there is a fair number) so for those people the SFM @ $10 cheaper was a good option. We try to cater for as many people as we can not just the market who want hardcore sims and nothing but.

 

As the SFM model was available significantly earlier then the EFM model we went ahead with the release plan that we did.

 

We've tried to make it as clear as possible by including in the product notes that SFM is included,

 

Anyone that has brought the SFM is welcome to upgrade (proof of purchase will be required) through our site when the EFM version is released for $10.

 

Pman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ Rongor

 

OK, so I misunderstood that, sorry.

I remember when lots of people were asking for the Hawk beta release and were very unhappy about the possible delay until the EFM and VEAO came up with the idea of selling a SFM version with a possibility for an upgrade later... It was well accepted then.

Now, in retrospect the EFM was always the final goal, and I think VEAO already said, they won't do this SFM/EFM upgrade with new modules.

A part of the problem came from the integration with StarForce and the early beta using other DRM, Ells posted about that... So sorry if I got that wrong.

I think we won't see another "mixed" release, and from my point of view the current one isn't too bad. It enabled people to get the Hawk early and was an approach to be as fair as possible to the customers. Let them decide on what they want.

Some people may got confused, but all information was there in plain text, and even "if" you need to update to EFM later, it is the same fair price, like any other module.

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 32GB | GeForce RTX 2080S - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs | a hand made UFC | AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for confirmation

 

Yes you will need the $10 upgrade fee, it wont be a free upgrade as the aircraft is only priced at $39.99 and not $49.99.

 

We are looking into ways that people who buy the aircraft on steam will be able to buy the upgrade from us and have it activated on steam. No confirmation from us that you will be able to do this via steam yet.

 

Radios have been temp removed while we re-work them as mentioned above they were causing crashes.

 

As for the EFM / SFM confusion, I really dont understand why everyone is so confused. Buy SFM you get SFM, buy EFM you get EFM (when its available), if you want to upgrade from SFM to EFM its $10.

 

Pman

 

What? Here I was thinking this was a cool company providing the aircraft cheaper for early adopters but no, it looks like I have completely wasted my money. How disappointing. Why is there nothing on the store page that says that the EFM (Which is standard on all other modules) is a paid upgrade?

 

Remind me not to buy another product from you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What? Here I was thinking this was a cool company providing the aircraft cheaper for early adopters but no, it looks like I have completely wasted my money. How disappointing. Why is there nothing on the store page that says that the EFM (Which is standard on all other modules) is a paid upgrade?

 

Remind me not to buy another product from you.

Obviously I am sorry you feel that way, however it is clearly labelled what kind of flight model is included with the purchase. Just had a quick browse at the other modules and they clearly define what fm you get for the product.

 

When the efm is available if you want to upgrade to it then you are of course welcome to via our website. We have provided lots of information on our website, here on the forums, on facebook as well as the interviews we have done.

 

I hope after you have experienced the hawk you will consider the efm upgrade once it's available.

 

Regards

 

Pman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...