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MG151/20 as a motorcannon.


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There is some Bf109K-4 were used MG151/20 as a motorcannon on propeller hub in history. I really hope it will be realized in DCS.

 

MK108 is powerful weapon but it is really useless in fighter combat. Too little ammo, critically bad trajectory, no tracer, no ammo counter, and actually MK108 in this game is too weak. I saw a P-51D was hitted by four 30mm, but still flying in multiplay.

 

Bf109K-4 with MG151/20 as a motorcannon is historically correct. I think there is no reason avoid it.

 

Eagle Dynamics please consider this.

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As for trajectory, MK 108 is not bad at all at the distance it is meant to be used at. The differences in muzzle velocity and hence trajectory can be neglected at that distance.

 

Agreed on its weakness in game though. If its destruction power were right, I could take down more bogeys (and more efficiently) using it than with a MG 151/20.

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Yes, I would also like an MG 151/20 option.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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Bf109K-4 with MG151/20 as a motorcannon is historically correct.

 

I have never seen it mentioned anywhere except in some secondary sources (Prien).

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

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And don't forget the MG151 gunpods! No sources needed, the cockpit itself mentions them. :I

 

I'd be perfectly happy, as a Mustang player, for more Kurfurst players to take the gun pods... more weight and drag will just make it that much easier for me to get my guns onto them ;)

 

Everything is a trade-off

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I have never seen it mentioned anywhere except in some secondary sources (Prien).

 

Did you see this reply in the old discussion?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2196174&postcount=306

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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I'd be perfectly happy, as a Mustang player, for more Kurfurst players to take the gun pods... more weight and drag will just make it that much easier for me to get my guns onto them ;)

 

Everything is a trade-off

 

The cons are unnoticeable, tbh.

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The cons are unnoticeable, tbh.

 

Surely you can't be serious... or you thought I was referring to the motorkanon.... I was specifically replying to the mention of the underwing gun pods, which added a LOT of weight and drag to the airframe; to the point where there are tons of references by pilots that they hated the way it made the aircraft perform, and many squadrons refused to use them.

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Did you see this reply in the old discussion?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2196174&postcount=306

 

Yes, but lacking serious evidence, I still don't buy. Maybe there were odd examples, but that's just speculation - again none of the specs I have seen for the K-4 note that it was ever intended to fit anything but a 108. The K-2 may have been planned with the 151, but the G-10 effectively replaced the need to produce the K-2 in the end.

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

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Surely you can't be serious... or you thought I was referring to the motorkanon.... I was specifically replying to the mention of the underwing gun pods, which added a LOT of weight and drag to the airframe; to the point where there are tons of references by pilots that they hated the way it made the aircraft perform, and many squadrons refused to use them.

 

 

The two guns and their accessorizes weigthed 135 kg, and 215 kg complete with ammunition.

 

The gondolas clean aerdynamic drag was equivalent of +0,0215 sq. meters of Δ[Fcw], or resulted roughly about -8 km/h speed loss at SL. To this needed to be added the increased induced drag resulting from the added weight of 215kg, i.e. roughly equivalent to about - 1,5 km/h at SL and about -6 km/h at rated altitude, as per this January 1944 document:

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_test...ragitems_table

 

added a LOT of weight and drag to the airframe

 

what is that supposed to mean ?

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Surely you can't be serious... or you thought I was referring to the motorkanon.... I was specifically replying to the mention of the underwing gun pods, which added a LOT of weight and drag to the airframe; to the point where there are tons of references by pilots that they hated the way it made the aircraft perform, and many squadrons refused to use them.

 

I say it based on my experience on another game... well, please don't lynch me for it, it's War Thunder, but still... Even there people tell me "aw hell nein, gunpods suck", while I see practically no disadvantages... all dat dakka (and yes, I know the FM's for the late 109's there are just blasphemy).

 

Can't try them in IL2 BoS due to that braindead thing called "unlock system", which together with other things make me ALT+F4 before I can unlock them.

 

And I don't really have other sims with 109's (yet).

 

The two guns and their accessorizes weigthed 135 kg, and 215 kg complete with ammunition.

 

The gondolas clean aerdynamic drag was equivalent of +0,0215 sq. meters of Δ[Fcw], or resulted roughly about -8 km/h speed loss at SL. To this needed to be added the increased induced drag resulting from the added weight of 215kg, i.e. roughly equivalent to about - 1,5 km/h at SL and about -6 km/h at rated altitude, as per this January 1944 document:

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_test...ragitems_table

 

 

 

what is that supposed to mean ?

 

Thanks!

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I say it based on my experience on another game... well, please don't lynch me for it, it's War Thunder, but still... Even there people tell me "aw hell nein, gunpods suck", while I see practically no disadvantages... all dat dakka (and yes, I know the FM's for the late 109's there are just blasphemy).

 

Can't try them in IL2 BoS due to that braindead thing called "unlock system", which together with other things make me ALT+F4 before I can unlock them.

 

And I don't really have other sims with 109's (yet).

 

 

Thanks!

 

Sure, more dakka, but you know... those Gondolas had problems with reliability. Gunther Rall explained it very well.

 

You sacrifice more than you think. Your roll, your turn radius, your climb, your dive. Everything gets worse with gondolas under your wings. They are more powerful for quick short B&Z attacks and I don't blame your liking them. Everyone has his own opinion and preference.

 

Many people and probably real pilots liked them too, but that doesn't mean they had no disadvantages to them.

 

It is the same how some USAAF pilots were complaining that 6x.50cals are too much for P-51D and they want only 4xHMGs as in the B,C versions.

 

Some like their planes lighter.


Edited by Solty

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My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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It is the same how some USAAF pilots were complaining that 6x.50cals are too much for P-51D and they want only 4xHMGs as in the B,C versions.

 

Some like their planes lighter.

 

That should probably be an option for the DCS P-51D, too; there were accommodations in the design for removing two of the guns, which in turn allowed a higher quantity of ammunition per gun and/or reduced overall aircraft weight. I suspect it was a near-tool-less procedure.

 

...not that *I* want to fly with a 4-gun 'Stang, but it should be an armament option

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Same for the P-47 I believe, there were also a 6 gun option.

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

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Same for the P-47 I believe, there were also a 6 gun option.

 

Didn't know about that; though I recall the P-47M came with only 6, default... does it allow the feed trays for the removed gun to be fed to one (or more) of the remaining guns instead?

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With some tweaking one can change the MK108 to a MG151/20 in the motorkanone position.

 

Here is a small mod for that: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=142241

 

Obviously that is not MP compatible but fun to see the difference and how easy the MG151/20 is to employ compared to the MK108.

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  • 1 month later...
Sure, more dakka, but you know... those Gondolas had problems with reliability. Gunther Rall explained it very well.

 

You sacrifice more than you think. Your roll, your turn radius, your climb, your dive. Everything gets worse with gondolas under your wings. They are more powerful for quick short B&Z attacks and I don't blame your liking them. Everyone has his own opinion and preference.

 

Many people and probably real pilots liked them too, but that doesn't mean they had no disadvantages to them.

 

It is the same how some USAAF pilots were complaining that 6x.50cals are too much for P-51D and they want only 4xHMGs as in the B,C versions.

 

Some like their planes lighter.

 

I was about to post this myself! I absolutely love Gunther Rall, all of you should watch his interviews. He's really a gentleman.

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