MP 2-ship without duplicating the entire flight for each client possible (in future)?

[gofrm76]

the title already contains my question, here are some additional comments on it:

 

I know a little bit about mission-building in Falcon BMS 4.32. Here, when you create a mission, you simply set the number of planes a flight is made of. Later, this machines can be either populated by real world players or will be controlled by AI.

 

In the DCS-world, it seems so that the only solution is to create a one-ship flight and copy that flight for every human player. At least that's what I found in the forums.

 

But why is this so cumbersom? If one changes anything, it has to be done mulitple times.

I really don't know very much about mission building yet but I could imagine that one could get confused quite fast with keeping track of the callsigns, flight numbers, flight frequencies etc.

 

In BMS, being a member of a flight or another also affected the symbology of the HSD for example. how is this solved in DCS? (I do not own each DCS-module, so I don't know if there is actually any aircraft-system that would implement a datalink like the one of the F-16 mentioned above)

 

Any clarification on this topic is appreciated!

 

Thanks and regards

Christian

Edited April 5, 2015 by gofrm76

[shagrat]

No, not yet.

[Roadrunner]

well, for the HSD stuff, t least in the A-10C you can do this if you know your systems.

 

for the flights, yes, in falcon it was/is easier, and atm not possible with the DCS core install, but i think i remember, that someone had a way to do it in DCS.

 

problem:

- dont know where

- dont know if it works with current build

 

regards,

RR

[Roadrunner]

ok, searched in a mission file, cause was curious myself:

 

in the mission.miz you find a "mission" file, in there you find something like that below.

 

i changed the skil, on the wingman to client and got 2 slots now in MP server, dont know though, if this is working for clients that connect to the game, but essentialy you get the slots that way.

 

the downside might be, that everytime you edit the missionfile in the editor you might have to change that again.

 

regards,

RR

 

 

 ["units"] = 
                               {
                                   [1] = 
                                   {
                                       ["alt"] = 2000,
                                       ["alt_type"] = "BARO",
                                       ["livery_id"] = "104th FS Maryland ANG, Baltimore (MD)",
                                       [b][color=Red]["skill"] = "Client",[/color][/b]
                                       ["speed"] = 138.88888888889,
                                       ["type"] = "A-10A",
                                       ["unitId"] = 1,
                                       ["psi"] = 0,
                                       ["y"] = 620428.57142857,
                                       ["x"] = -335714.28571429,
                                       ["name"] = "Pilot #001",
                                       ["payload"] = 
                                       {
                                           ["pylons"] = 
                                           {
                                           }, -- end of ["pylons"]
                                           ["fuel"] = 5029,
                                           ["flare"] = 120,
                                           ["ammo_type"] = 1,
                                           ["chaff"] = 240,
                                           ["gun"] = 100,
                                       }, -- end of ["payload"]
                                       ["heading"] = 0,
                                       ["callsign"] = 
                                       {
                                           [1] = 1,
                                           [2] = 1,
                                           [3] = 1,
                                           ["name"] = "Enfield11",
                                       }, -- end of ["callsign"]
                                       ["onboard_num"] = "010",
                                   }, -- end of [1]
                                   [2] = 
                                   {
                                       ["alt"] = 2000,
                                       ["alt_type"] = "BARO",
                                       ["livery_id"] = "104th FS Maryland ANG, Baltimore (MD)",
                                       [b][color=Red]["skill"] = "Client",[/color][/b]
                                       ["speed"] = 138.88888888889,
                                       ["type"] = "A-10A",
                                       ["unitId"] = 2,
                                       ["psi"] = 0,
                                       ["y"] = 620468.57142857,
                                       ["x"] = -335754.28571429,
                                       ["name"] = "Pilot #002",
                                       ["payload"] = 
                                       {
                                           ["pylons"] = 
                                           {
                                           }, -- end of ["pylons"]
                                           ["fuel"] = 5029,
                                           ["flare"] = 120,
                                           ["ammo_type"] = 1,
                                           ["chaff"] = 240,
                                           ["gun"] = 100,
                                       }, -- end of ["payload"]
                                       ["heading"] = 0,
                                       ["callsign"] = 
                                       {
                                           [1] = 1,
                                           [2] = 1,
                                           [3] = 2,
                                           ["name"] = "Enfield12",
                                       }, -- end of ["callsign"]
                                       ["onboard_num"] = "011",
                                   }, -- end of [2]
                               }, -- end of ["units"]

Edited April 5, 2015 by Roadrunner

[shagrat]

What happens, if you use a part of group in zone trigger or similar? Is the "edited client" still recognized as part of the group?

[shagrat]

Ok, I did some first tests. Seems the biggest issue is, the AI takes over the remaining machines. I created a 4 flight tweaked the skill to client and it showed all 4 as available slots.

If you take slot 1 (lead) everything is fine as in a normal flight. If you take another slot DCS assumes you are still lead, and the AI planes will block the Taxiway for example as well as other radio comms are a bit wonky...

As long as lead is a human player it seems to work pretty well.

[Roadrunner]

question would be, how does it work with all aircraft under client control.

 

regardless of what slot i took, all aircraft spawned.

 

another thing i tested, as long as you dont select the group in the editor it seems to keep the client setting, but i guess i can be wrong there, more testing needed :D

 

RR

 

PS:

shagrat, if you want to test that online, shoot me a PM ;)

[P5138]

The way I got around this, and granted this doesn't actually make it easier, is that I edited this part of the unit entry:

 

["callsign"] =

{

[1] = 1,

[2] = 1,

[3] = 2,

["name"] = "Enfield12",

}, -- end of ["callsign"]

 

Line [1] is group name (Enfield, Pontiec, etc.)

Line [2] is group number

Line [3] is unit number (max is 4)

 

["name"], as far as I can guess is the string that sets the way the ATC calls you.

 

This method works to at least get the client to be in wingman spots like Colt 1-2. It won't make scripting easier, though, and it adds another few steps to the mission build process. It does, however, work perfectly well on the client side of things. Also, every client does get the full set of radio options as if there was an AI group behind him, so you do get some ability to use the radio system. It is only marred by the fact that you can't tell who says what.

 

I also have tried to force non-normal callsigns into the section, like "Overlord11" or similar, but this totally breaks any communication that requires the name to be said. It would be great if we could get more than just the standard eight callsigns.

Edited April 6, 2015 by P5138

[shagrat]

Just tested the trick in MP... Yeah, it doesn't work, "DCS stopped working".

Was a nice idea... Thanks to Roadrunner, for the nice test session.

[shagrat]

The way I got around this, and granted this doesn't actually make it easier, is that I edited this part of the unit entry:

 

 

 

Line [1] is group name (Enfield, Pontiec, etc.)

Line [2] is group number

Line [3] is unit number (max is 4)

 

["name"], as far as I can guess is the string that sets the way the ATC calls you.

 

This method works to at least get the client to be in wingman spots like Colt 1-2. It won't make scripting easier, though, and it adds another few steps to the mission build process. It does, however, work perfectly well on the client side of things. Also, every client does get the full set of radio options as if there was an AI group behind him, so you do get some ability to use the radio system. It is only marred by the fact that you can't tell who says what.

 

I also have tried to force non-normal callsigns into the section, like "Overlord11" or similar, but this totally breaks any communication that requires the name to be said. It would be great if we could get more than just the standard eight callsigns.

Yepp, but changing the call signs, isn't much of an issue. To use a group with multiple client slots in MP is what would help tremendously.

Set a trigger for Group 1 instead of 4 triggers, one for each client.

Edited April 6, 2015 by shagrat

[Home Fries]

I'm hoping this gets fixed in the future; it's difficult when you need to copy/paste each entry, then you're unable to make global changes without copying/re-pasting.

 

Personally, I would like to see a global change in the ME where the AI skill is always entered (or "Player" for a forced client slot as required) and there is a checkbox that permits a client to join that aircraft. This way, you don't need to scale your mission for the number of clients who join, and you can have AI control over your flight if you have fewer clients or the clients join other aircraft.

 

Though at least we have copy/paste in DCS World; you needed to create clients individually in BS1/FC2. That turned me off to multiplayer mission building in a big way.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Home Fries

[Grimes]

I know a little bit about mission-building in Falcon BMS 4.32. Here, when you create a mission, you simply set the number of planes a flight is made of. Later, this machines can be either populated by real world players or will be controlled by AI.

 

In the DCS-world, it seems so that the only solution is to create a one-ship flight and copy that flight for every human player. At least that's what I found in the forums.

 

Its all in how it was setup to begin with and in the case of DCS/ED how multiplayer flights are handled has remained mostly unchanged for a long time now. That said taking control of AI flights is possible in singleplayer, but it has some issues like the AI will return to base instead of continuing the mission if control is given up.

 

 

Re a bunch of other stuff in this thread.

 

I'm of the opinion that the current system is outdated and needs to be changed sometime in 2.0. However there are multiple issues at play and potential solutions can have a sizable impact on the different problems. For instance I'd love for there to be a multiplayer mission planner for players to create flights and share callsigns, but that could cause headaches to code around for the scripting engine and utterly screw over anyone who only knows triggers.

[gofrm76]

ok, searched in a mission file, cause was curious myself:

 

in the mission.miz you find a "mission" file, in there you find something like that below.

 

i changed the skil, on the wingman to client and got 2 slots now in MP server, dont know though, if this is working for clients that connect to the game, but essentialy you get the slots that way.

 

the downside might be, that everytime you edit the missionfile in the editor you might have to change that again.

 

regards,

RR

 

 

 ["units"] = 
                               {
                                   [1] = 
                                   {
                                       ["alt"] = 2000,
                                       ["alt_type"] = "BARO",
                                       ["livery_id"] = "104th FS Maryland ANG, Baltimore (MD)",
                                       [b][color=Red]["skill"] = "Client",[/color][/b]
                                       ["speed"] = 138.88888888889,
                                       ["type"] = "A-10A",
                                       ["unitId"] = 1,
                                       ["psi"] = 0,
                                       ["y"] = 620428.57142857,
                                       ["x"] = -335714.28571429,
                                       ["name"] = "Pilot #001",
                                       ["payload"] = 
                                       {
                                           ["pylons"] = 
                                           {
                                           }, -- end of ["pylons"]
                                           ["fuel"] = 5029,
                                           ["flare"] = 120,
                                           ["ammo_type"] = 1,
                                           ["chaff"] = 240,
                                           ["gun"] = 100,
                                       }, -- end of ["payload"]
                                       ["heading"] = 0,
                                       ["callsign"] = 
                                       {
                                           [1] = 1,
                                           [2] = 1,
                                           [3] = 1,
                                           ["name"] = "Enfield11",
                                       }, -- end of ["callsign"]
                                       ["onboard_num"] = "010",
                                   }, -- end of [1]
                                   [2] = 
                                   {
                                       ["alt"] = 2000,
                                       ["alt_type"] = "BARO",
                                       ["livery_id"] = "104th FS Maryland ANG, Baltimore (MD)",
                                       [b][color=Red]["skill"] = "Client",[/color][/b]
                                       ["speed"] = 138.88888888889,
                                       ["type"] = "A-10A",
                                       ["unitId"] = 2,
                                       ["psi"] = 0,
                                       ["y"] = 620468.57142857,
                                       ["x"] = -335754.28571429,
                                       ["name"] = "Pilot #002",
                                       ["payload"] = 
                                       {
                                           ["pylons"] = 
                                           {
                                           }, -- end of ["pylons"]
                                           ["fuel"] = 5029,
                                           ["flare"] = 120,
                                           ["ammo_type"] = 1,
                                           ["chaff"] = 240,
                                           ["gun"] = 100,
                                       }, -- end of ["payload"]
                                       ["heading"] = 0,
                                       ["callsign"] = 
                                       {
                                           [1] = 1,
                                           [2] = 1,
                                           [3] = 2,
                                           ["name"] = "Enfield12",
                                       }, -- end of ["callsign"]
                                       ["onboard_num"] = "011",
                                   }, -- end of [2]
                               }, -- end of ["units"]

 

Thanks for the the help.

I did some tests after making the above mentioned change to the mission-file but the results are similar to that was shagrat described.

I created a 2-ship fight, in mp lobby i manned both flights with realworld network clients, but in-game one of these flights was then controlled by AI.

This client was not disconnected completely. I was still able to use the F2- and F3-keys to view the airplane.

The other network-client worked without problems.