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So after having flown the P-51D in DCS in a few online battles I can honestly say I wont be flying it again in any battle, unless its folding wings get fixed. It's just no fun when its (in my oppinion) way to brittle in this sim.

 

As it is right now, I really have to constrain myself when chasing an enemy, and it just takes one little slip and BANG.. One of the wings just rips off when pulling a bit to much. This eventually always happens to me, and I have never had more than 50% fuel or any damage to the plane at all.

And I really think im being careful with my stick..

 

I havent had tacview on it, so I cant see how many G's im pulling but I would estimate it to be around 5 G's tops.

 

Take this as an example.. Trying to outspeed a 109 in a diving 4G turn and yet he pulls this off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Tw76RiTYwRI#t=643

 

I mean. That has to be 8G's or something instantly.

 

And yet I cant even go over 5G's (estimated) in short periods.

Here's an awesome looking example I made. Nothing to back up my theory, it just looks cool. :P

 

 

Does anyone know if this is on the workbench, if it's just accepted as it is - or me being a shitty pilot? :D


Edited by <Grizzly>
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You may just be pulling to hard to quickly. I have never snapped my wings in a dogfight but before the merge I used to pull extremely hard and brake my wings because I was to fast.

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I just found a tacview of one of the situations. Actually the one I recorded above..

 

I dont disagree that I might be pulling to quickly, its not the prettiest pull I do there, but im a little overwhelmed that its this brittle, when the real life P-51 as far as I know - can withstand a hell of a lot more than this. I didnt even get any warnings that I was pulling to hard. No blackout or anything.

 

I read about 6.7g's ? :joystick:

 

 

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I'm not shure how much G you are pulling, but the assumption that you get phisical warning before over g is not allways correct .

It takes time for a human to pass out with over G.

you could pull 21 G for a split second without passing out, but a long duration of 3 G can cause Gloc.

The material overstress, on the other hand, is instantaneously.

 

It would be great though, to get permanent deformation, like bended wings (with all its phisics), before they break....would really really be great.

 

For wat it's worth

 

greetz.

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Does anyone know of any actual facts on writing out there, telling how hard a Mustang should be able to pull? 6-7 g's just doesnt sound like much in my ears.

 

It takes time for a human to pass out with over G.

you could pull 21 G for a split second without passing out, but a long duration of 3 G can cause Gloc.

The material overstress, on the other hand, is instantaneously.

 

Thats true.


Edited by <Grizzly>
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I thought I read someones post on here that in optimal configuration the mustang should be able to pull a steady 8 g's. I was recently chasing a 109 in a dive when he pulled up hard and to the left. His wings snapped and when I finally came to and looked at my g meter I saw I had pulled 7.5g's. Do you know if you had any damage at the time. The last time I broke my wing I did a lazy split S but I had a huge hole in my wing from a cannon round I just took. I didn't pull particularly hard at all but the wing just folded off. Until then I wasn't sure the visual damage model went hand in hand with the mathematical one but it was pretty obvious to me that my wing was much weaker due to the damage it just received.

 

Sorry not much else to add that you don't already know but in my experience the rate at which you pull the g makes all the difference.

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I thought I read someones post on here that in optimal configuration the mustang should be able to pull a steady 8 g's. I was recently chasing a 109 in a dive when he pulled up hard and to the left. His wings snapped and when I finally came to and looked at my g meter I saw I had pulled 7.5g's. Do you know if you had any damage at the time. The last time I broke my wing I did a lazy split S but I had a huge hole in my wing from a cannon round I just took. I didn't pull particularly hard at all but the wing just folded off. Until then I wasn't sure the visual damage model went hand in hand with the mathematical one but it was pretty obvious to me that my wing was much weaker due to the damage it just received.

 

Sorry not much else to add that you don't already know but in my experience the rate at which you pull the g makes all the difference.

 

Same with the Dora ... damage takes a big toll on what the wings will handle whether its hard turns as slow speeds or simple pullouts at higher speeds.

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I thought I read someones post on here that in optimal configuration the mustang should be able to pull a steady 8 g's. I was recently chasing a 109 in a dive when he pulled up hard and to the left. His wings snapped and when I finally came to and looked at my g meter I saw I had pulled 7.5g's. Do you know if you had any damage at the time. The last time I broke my wing I did a lazy split S but I had a huge hole in my wing from a cannon round I just took. I didn't pull particularly hard at all but the wing just folded off. Until then I wasn't sure the visual damage model went hand in hand with the mathematical one but it was pretty obvious to me that my wing was much weaker due to the damage it just received.

 

Sorry not much else to add that you don't already know but in my experience the rate at which you pull the g makes all the difference.

 

Well, nothing fired at me up to that point. So I dont believe I had any damage. But its awesome how that is a factor in the sim.

It might be the rate you talk about though.

Nevertheless, I dont know if its right or wrong. Im not an expert, but if its supposed to be like this, thats just more fuel for me to fly the 109 more than the p51.

I just haven't really read or heard about wings falling of during dogfigthing before. Its new to me that it happens this easily, I didnt have that issue in IL2 46' or CLOD (TF). :pilotfly:

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  • ED Team
I thought I read someones post on here that in optimal configuration the mustang should be able to pull a steady 8 g's. I was recently chasing a 109 in a dive when he pulled up hard and to the left. His wings snapped and when I finally came to and looked at my g meter I saw I had pulled 7.5g's. Do you know if you had any damage at the time. The last time I broke my wing I did a lazy split S but I had a huge hole in my wing from a cannon round I just took. I didn't pull particularly hard at all but the wing just folded off. Until then I wasn't sure the visual damage model went hand in hand with the mathematical one but it was pretty obvious to me that my wing was much weaker due to the damage it just received.

 

Sorry not much else to add that you don't already know but in my experience the rate at which you pull the g makes all the difference.

 

8g for 8000 lb. If you have this GW please notificate us about it... :)

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I just found a tacview of one of the situations. Actually the one I recorded above..

 

I dont disagree that I might be pulling to quickly, its not the prettiest pull I do there, but im a little overwhelmed that its this brittle, when the real life P-51 as far as I know - can withstand a hell of a lot more than this. I didnt even get any warnings that I was pulling to hard. No blackout or anything.

 

I read about 6.7g's ? :joystick:

 

 

 

It was not your first hard pulling during that flight, yes? If we could see all your g-load history it will be very interesting...

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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8g for 8000 lb. If you have this GW please notificate us about it... :)

At standard weight the safety load was 6.75G, with a safety margin of 1.5 and thus ultimate wings failure should be at 10.125 G.

 

I did a test with high speed pullout and the acceleration gauge stopped at 9g when my wings broke. That was my only maneuver BTW.


Edited by GrapeJam
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Another note, if you pull a turn too hard it can cause deformation (or fatigue?) damage in the wing. This can cause it to break with less G's on the next hard turn.

 

Is that modeled?

 

Found this read.

 

http://mustanghighflight.com/warbirds/diamondback.html

 

Structural G limits P51D

 

+8 G

-4 G

Negative G for Max 10 seconds.

 

Maybe you like smile.gif...

 

 

I like, thanks :thumbup:

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It was not your first hard pulling during that flight, yes? If we could see all your g-load history it will be very interesting...

 

I did have one long pull where I reached about 5,something.

 

Here you have the whole track for tacview.

https://spideroak.com/storage/JV2WOZ3JLA/shared/991493-1-1075/Tacview-20150402-225538-DCS.txt.rar?af5da4727603151f67f1c25721bbfe9f

 

But I was wrong in my initial post, because I estimated my "break pull" to be 5G's which was wrong. I can see tacview stops at 6,5ish and then a second later my plane rips. So maybe tacview dont record the last second of G's and I actually did pull the 8G's as P3CFE refered to as the positive structural limit.


Edited by <Grizzly>
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I did have one long pull where I reached about 5,something.

 

Here you have the whole track for tacview.

https://spideroak.com/storage/JV2WOZ3JLA/shared/991493-1-1075/Tacview-20150402-225538-DCS.txt.rar?af5da4727603151f67f1c25721bbfe9f

 

But I was wrong in my initial post, because I estimated my "break pull" to be 5G's which was wrong. I can see tacview stops at 6,5ish and then a second later my plane rips. So maybe tacview dont record the last second of G's and I actually did pull the 8G's as P3CFE refered to as the positive structural limit.

 

The right sequence is: take your actual weight GW and calculate g-limit = 8 * 8000/GW. This is the safety limit. If you overcome the airframe is overstressed and your structural failure limit that is about 1.5 of safety g-limit goes down. So, once you can find a wing ripped off as you overcome the safety limit.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I think the rate of the pull has a lot to do with it. Some of us who have warthog extensions and fly quite often rarely break wings, even in the most dire fights. I can't count the number of times I have relied on the strength of the DCS P-51s wings and it's performance in a high speed dive.

 

There is also a learning curve with the DCS stuff...it will punish you if mistreated.

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I watched your video one last time a little closer, to me it appears you change your pull up rate right before your wing folds. Check it out, I think you are trying to pull lead right at the last second because it appears your arch is flattening out just prior to your wings folding. Going into a rolling dive and then trying to pull lead just before the apex of the dive might have been what did you in. I am just speculating here of course. You were so close to an awesome kill shot though, it's too bad your wing failed. Don't let it discourage you though, it's these little things that make a kill that much more rewarding! If it was easy we'd all be doing it for about a week then get bored and put the sim on the shelf.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the street and then getting hit by an airplane."

Dogs of War Dedicated WWII Server Thread

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I am finding that I get wing failures when in a gentle high speed turn, this is happening far too easily as I am only attempting to match the turn rate and slowly catch an AN26. I also seem to have an elevator flutter problem and am aware this could contribute as it causes small but swift pitch ups to occurr.

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