USAF gas bill

[Weta43]

From NYTimes.com:

 

"The Air Force consumed 3.2 billion gallons of aviation fuel in fiscal year 2005, which was 52.5 percent of all fossil fuel used by the government, Pentagon statistics show. The total Air Force bill for jet fuel last year topped $4.7 billion.

 

Although the share of national energy consumption by the federal government and the military is just 1.7 percent, every increase of $10 per barrel of oil drives up Air Force fuel costs by $600 million per year..."

 

Big money, all up in smoke

[diveplane]

scientists say as a estimate theres around 100 to 150 years left of fossil fuels

 

imagine all these jets cars trucks sitting around doing nothing

 

way to go goverments .......and mankind

[emenance]

i agree way to go stupid people. A world full of dum and greedy people. Perfect example.

 

But cars,planes and trains only been around for 100 years. Funny to think we could burn this planets oil up in 250 years. Better find a renewable fuel fast.

[Weta43]

The article was actually about the USAF's plans to test/produce aviation fuel from coal & natural gas (US has coal in spades).

Should buy another couple of hundred years leeway, by which time we'll all be wearing scrubbers to breath...

[Andrew_McP]

It continues to be made by the earth. It regenerates.

 

Care to point us at the proof? I thought it was just a theory based on one example of a field which appears to have "regenerated". It's far more likely that the geological conditions left in the particular field (in the Gulf of Mexico, I think) allowed more oil to leech out of surrounding rocks over time. It's not as if oil fields are some kind of underground oil barrel with clearly defined limits, after all.

 

Anyway, it's peak oil that's the problem, not how much is left. There could be enough for a billion years, but if it's all in increasingly difficult locations or states (like the Canadian oil sands which require significant effort and energy to extract a low grade product) then supply outstrips demand very quickly and oil prices rise... and rise.

 

The world is about to go through a very interesting phase. Well, interesting for future historians maybe. Whether it'll be so interesting to live through is a different matter, especially for those of us used to a high standard of living.

 

Andrew McP

[Rhodesian]

At least we know when the process of global warming will stop.:)

 

And, yes, oil is made form practicly anything organic that is under huge pressure.

[Weta43]

True - but at the moment making oil through applying heat & pressure to vegetable matter would take more energy than is available in the fuel you make, which is why people are looking at cracking heavier hdrocarbons or doing bio-fuels.

 

(it's equaly true that diamonds are just compressed coal / graphite / ashes from your pet or loved one / vegetable matter & if you pay someone enough they'll make you one - but they aint cheap)

[S77th-GOYA]

It's not really a question of what it's made of, the question is are we using it faster than it's being made.

[Weta43]

That was my point & the answer is undoubtedly yes - so - it doesn't matter what it's made of if you can't make easily enough to have a useful supply (leaving aside questions about the survival of the planet if we did have an endless supply of greenhouse gas producing hydrocarbons)

[diveplane]

apparently the goverments are sitting on a alternative enegry source

technology ,but wont release it...

that could change the world right now, no need for fossil fuels

or nuclear power plants ,

[Crusty]

Uh huh. That's old news and it's wrong. They also said that fossil fuel is dead dinosaurs. Turns out that ain't true. It continues to be made by the earth. It regenerates.

 

Your ignorance is astounding

[dodger42]

Oil companies = corruption, collusion, governmental manipulation.

 

I doubt there will be any move by the US military to alternative fuels until the oil companies are good and happy for them to do so.

[Andrew_McP]

It's made by decaying plant matter. Scientists have made it by compressing dead plants under pressure.

 

Do a web search.

 

Of course oil is made from organic matter + geology + time, that was never open for debate. I thought you were talking about something more contentious.

 

Man made oil certainly isn't the answer unless we find an unlimited, cheap energy source to power the process. And that's just not going to happen, no matter what the conspiracy theorists say.

 

Fusion might be the answer eventually, but even fusion's most devoted fan (and I'm certainly pro-fusion research in a big way) couldn't describing it as looking hopeful at the moment. Energy yields are truly lousy and not going anywhere quickly.

 

Andrew McP

[Guest IguanaKing]

Well...quite a bit more of the fuel is being consumed by USAF and ANG aircraft ever since 9-11...that's no secret. The cost is going up because there are now more countries adding a significant component to the demand...China and India to name a couple. This whole "Bio-Diesel" thing sounds quite promising, especially for aircraft...since JP4,5, and 9 are all closely related to Diesel fuel. It boggles my mind though as to how enough can be grown to keep up with the demand. I say...Hydrogen fuel cells for ground vehicles, Bio-Diesel for aircraft.

 

As for global warming...it exists...I'm just not so convinced that it has all that much to do with human activity. Let's not forget...the Dinosaurs that did or didn't produce our fossil fuels, once enjoyed a MUCH warmer climate...and humans didn't exist before that. ;)

[zaelu]

http://www.archive.org/details/It_Runs_On_Water

 

or the direct link to the movie (it's free as far as I can see)

 

http://www.archive.org/download/It_Runs_On_Water/IT.RUNS.ON.WATER.XVID.AVI

 

So a little bit of hope we have...

 

Some of us... humans... are working on it ;)

[Andrew_McP]

As for global warming...it exists...I'm just not so convinced that it has all that much to do with human activity.

 

As ever, it's hard to quantify human involvement given the complexity of atmospheric studies. But common sense says that releasing countless billion tons of CO2 back into the atmosphere in an infinitessimally tiny fraction of the time period it took to capture that CO2 has to have an appreciable effect.

 

> Of our annual 27 billion tonnes carbon dioxide output;

> 7 billion tonnes are absorbed by oceans;

> 7 billion tonnes are taken up by forests, and;

> 13 billion tonnes accumulate in the atmosphere each year.

 

Andrew McP

[RZero]

Intresting fact after 9/11 when all planes were grounded over the U.S the world tempeture altered by 1c in the day and in the night in less than 24 hours.

[Guest IguanaKing]

As ever, it's hard to quantify human involvement given the complexity of atmospheric studies. But common sense says that releasing countless billion tons of CO2 back into the atmosphere in an infinitessimally tiny fraction of the time period it took to capture that CO2 has to have an appreciable effect.

 

> Of our annual 27 billion tonnes carbon dioxide output;

> 7 billion tonnes are absorbed by oceans;

> 7 billion tonnes are taken up by forests, and;

> 13 billion tonnes accumulate in the atmosphere each year.

 

Andrew McP

 

...and how many other species exist on this planet that expel CO2 as part of their life function? :smilewink:

[Jester_159th]

...and how many other species exist on this planet that expel CO2 as part of their life function? :smilewink:

 

Not many that have steel mills, oil refineries and various other industrial installations running 24/7. :music_whistling:

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yes...now comment on the location of the biggest holes in the ozone layer. Its funny...even that theory seems to have vanished since more and more of the public have started to study geography. :music_whistling:

[Pilotasso]

Fuel continues being made naturaly but it takes millions of years to regenerate. If things continue with this trend, oil expliotation wont be viabale anymore much sooner than stock exaust. Its harder and harder to get at new reserves and political tensions made several big nations realise that they are far too vulnerable to blackmail.

 

Theres so much greed you can push on the this system untill it starts to undermine the whole economy and the oil companies themselves.

 

Even in the darkest times in history theres always something usefull to take from it.

We wil probably stop using oil at this rate in the next 30-40 years. It will take about 20 years untill the ground vehicles industry reduces comsuption to a fraction of waht it is today. Aircraft will take longer than this. Theres no technology on the horizon capable of enough power and efficiency to lift heavy bodies thousands of feet into the air. Most people dont realise how much energy it takes to do that. All the technologies being developed (like pulse detonation engines) will still use fossil fuels.

 

The Hydrogen fuel cels have a major drawback to be overcome thats even more daunting than building the cars arround the cells themselves.

Hydrolisis consumes more fuel from powerplants that would be saved by the new cars.

Worse: the other alternative method of hydrogen extration for the cells is using methanol. After removing the hydrogen from the methanol you get chemical waste. And then after you run the hydrogen engine, Oxygen is taken from the atmosphere to form water in the cells.Unlike CO2 Whater vapour cant be processed by plants to produce oxygen anymore.

I.E. you cant recover the oxygen from water unless you use hydrolisis and I already told that it will nulify the cells advantage because that will cost alot more fuel to this than the cars would use. And it doesnt stop there. After prolonged use of methanol hydrogen extration you will get a new definition of polution: The combination of hydrogen with oxygen to form water in the cells produces more enthropy than fossil fuel. After a century of use of this method we will choke the planet with excess of whater vapour we cant re covert into oxygen.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Water vapor is a self-correcting system, and electolysis doesn't necessarily have to consume energy from fossil fuel sources. ;)

[Jester_159th]

Yes...now comment on the location of the biggest holes in the ozone layer. Its funny...even that theory seems to have vanished since more and more of the public have started to study geography. :music_whistling:

 

 

Geography has nothing to do with it. Air current s etc do. I don't think this "theory" has disappeared at all. It's just more convenient for governments and industries to ingnore it.

 

Besides a theory is something that's unproven. The proof of the damage done to the environment by industry is all around us. It's just easier to ignore it (especially now that there have been major improvements in the ammount of polution caused by industry compared to 50-100 years ago).

 

(but we're going off at a tangent from the original subject now)

[Guest IguanaKing]

The biggest holes in the ozone layer are over the Antarctic...the vast majority of industrialized nations are in the opposite hemisphere. Prevailing winds, the coriolis effect, and a whole mess of other laws of physics seem to be against the popular theory that mankind created them. ;) I understand though...without scare tactics...well...nobody can further their agenda. :D

[Pilotasso]

Water vapor is a self-correcting system, and electolysis doesn't necessarily have to consume energy from fossil fuel sources. ;)

 

Would you care to explain this to me? "self correcting"?

How many extra nuclear power plants do you think we would need to make electrolisis for the whole vehicles on earth?

Maybe with nuclear fusion but that tech is about 40 years in the future and then it will take decades to be widespread.

 

What I said may have been told in a doggy way but I got that from my thermodynamics teacher who wroked on NASA's jet propultion division. (no Im not BS'ting you)

 

The biggest holes in the ozone layer are over the Antarctic...the vast majority of industrialized nations are in the opposite hemisphere. Prevailing winds, the coriolis effect, and a whole mess of other laws of physics seem to be against the popular theory that mankind created them. ;) I understand though...without scare tactics...well...nobody can further their agenda. :D

 

Actualy studies say that the Ozone layer was at the same time an incredibly badly told story and the first (and only) major enviromental victory of the human race. It turns out that the industrial gases only were a fraction of the causes for its decrease. The heavy solar cycle activities of the 80's and 90's and the lack of replenishing gases of, at the same time, lower vulcanic activity were the main factors, and then it still alarmed us enough to make a global anti polution efforts. The Ozone layer is recovering and is projected to do so in the next 30 years. The penguins in the poles wont have to worry about solar burn anymore. Thats untill GWB throws the oil rigs at them though. :D