fixed Gun Sight Inaccuracy ?

[71st_AH Rob]

I don't think it is an error but a correction to make it behave as it does in reality. Try adjusting the sweep and it will lock. The issue they are trying to simulate I believe is ground interference.

 

See T.O. 1F-86F-1 page 4-23 under A1CM and A4 gun-bomb-rocket sights. It states that the AN/APG-30 radar has a range of 450 to 9000 feet and at alt below 6000 over land it can become erratic.

[NakedSquirrel]

I don't think it is an error but a correction to make it behave as it does in reality. Try adjusting the sweep and it will lock. The issue they are trying to simulate I believe is ground interference.

 

See T.O. 1F-86F-1 page 4-23 under A1CM and A4 gun-bomb-rocket sights. It states that the AN/APG-30 radar has a range of 450 to 9000 feet and at alt below 6000 over land it can become erratic.

 

 

I understand the max range and ground clutter limitations, but the gunsight drops off of the screen when the target is closer than 450 feet. I've read about the limitations with ground clutter and target lock, but I've never read about a limitation or errors with the gun sight at close range. Is that how it is supposed to function? I could understand it getting the wrong calculation below 450ft, but that wouldn't matter much at closer ranges. Currently, the sight just goes haywire, which seems odd since the target basically fills the radar scope. I wouldn't expect it to lose lock.

 

It's neat if that is simulated correctly, but I've never read about it so I'm curious.

[Hubert Bigglesworth]

Its a safety feature of the sight. If you get too close the radar looses lock and the gun sight jumps back out to max range, so your reticle gets smaller and if your in a turn or pulling G the reticle movement is amplified due to the now increased range the sight and radar has assumed, so the piper usually drops to or off the bottom of the sight glass. I have the mech cage button mapped on my joystick so i can press it quickly if i get too close and get some shots in.

 

The F86 seems too fast when i want to go slow and too slow when i want to go fast lol. But i just need to think a lot in advance and use the throttle and speed brakes a lot to prevent passing min range.

 

I also find the lack of rudder causes too much time to be wasted saddling/lining up for the shot so its easy to pass through min range or over shoot completely. No problems lining up in the Mig the rudder works very well.

 

S!! Hub.

[NakedSquirrel]

Interesting. I didn't realize the sight had such a safety feature. Do you know of any documentation on it? It would be neat to read more.

 

It seemed like a bug, but the sight in earlier versions was probably using the same functionality as the modern jets as a placeholder while they added ground clutter and the ranging knob functionality.

 

I suppose I will have to get used to the mechanical cage at close range. It is not intuitive because you have to aim well below the pipper, and predict the closure.1

 

Although, it might be better to change tactics and fire at longer ranges.

Edited August 31, 2015 by NakedSquirrel

[USA_Recon]

I think it's a bug, I've had better success uncaging the sight and firing just slightly above the target.

 

The caging sight is not setup well right now - hoping this is improved in future patches

[Reflected]

Two updates ago it worked as advertised: when it was uncaged I just placed the pipper on the target, and when I had stable radar contact I let go with all 6 guns.

 

Now, however, when the pipper is on the target I can be sure the bullets won't hit it. Is this normal? Is it just me? :pilotfly:

[Hubert Bigglesworth]

For anyone struggling with the guns mode gyro sight providing correct lead.

Now the rocket sight has a fully working gyro, set the sight to rocket mode and the depression angle to 8-10mils (easily set if using the knee board) and use this for air to air guns, just play with the depression angle to find the sweet spot for you. Works well and helps to show up the amount of inaccuracy in the guns mode sight gyro.

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

Or just aim the pipper slightly in front of the target.

[71st_AH_Mother]

You are not alone. The lead computing is off.

 

The target speed switch(TR, HI, LO) are not reported correctly on the kneeboard status page.

 

Using the manual ranging does not give accurate fire either.

[HarrierGuy]

Any updates on this? I noticed this problem too. It's been nearly 5 years since this was posted.

[Foul Ole Ron]

There's a mod that fixes it but it'll break IC:

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3301685/

 

I think it fixes it by changing one value:

 

The original F-86 Lua has:

 

tbl.azimuth_initial = tbl.azimuth_initial or 0

tbl.elevation_initial = tbl.elevation_initial or 0

 

The mod changes that to:

 

tbl.azimuth_initial = tbl.azimuth_initial or 0

tbl.elevation_initial = tbl.elevation_initial or 0.2

 

Hopefully now that the guns are being looked at generally that ED can take a look at this as it's been out there for a good while now. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be but it would be strange so worth somebody on ED side having a look into it. It would be a very quick, simple fix.

[Schmidtfire]

+1

 

In a slight turn with the uncaged radar pipper on target, bullets fall short. If I put the pipper on the canopy the bullets impact at the tail or fall behind.

 

Overall the sight in DCS also seems a bit more sensitive/jittery and unstable than it should.

The uncaged sight ofc. needs time to "settle down", but I would expect the movement of the sight to be more dampened and fluid.

 

[avenger82]

I know its an old thread but was the lead computing bug was ever officially reported and acknowledged ? Because the gunsight is still definitely not giving enough lead. From what I read it’s working in Mustang module.

[Schmidtfire]

+1

[avenger82]

Any updates? Apparently it worked correctly before march 2016? Also similar gyro gunsight is working in P51

mustang. I think it’s pretty important issue. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by avenger82

[SoW Reddog]

On 8/19/2022 at 11:29 PM, avenger82 said:

Any updates? Apparently it worked correctly before march 2016? Also similar gyro gunsight is working in P51

mustang. I think it’s pretty important issue. 

 

Of course it's an important issue. That's why it's taken such a very very very very very long time to get anywhere with it(by which I mean NOWHERE  with a series of locked threads and vague "we're reviewing" "I've asked someone to look at it" comments) , it's absolutely not got anything to do with ED having to cope with spaghetti code they don't understand or admit that they're wrong. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The MiG-15 and F-86 are pretty much forgotten modules. Watch: a mod will come here, tell me I've no idea what I'm talking about in a snarky manner, yet it's been YEARS since this was discovered and has yet to be addressed.

F-86 is not getting its gun updated. It's why I'm not going to be buying anymore of the WWII modules coming out from ED.

[avenger82]

Any updates? 

[McNally]

On 12/26/2022 at 4:13 PM, avenger82 said:

Any updates? 

Yes.  It's still broken.

[avenger82]

I almost lost hope, but it’s strange they don’t have time to fix it , because it was actually working when the plane was released and was broken with an update years ago(in 2016). Also AFAIK it’s working correctly in P51 so they can do it. Apparently they think that working on new modules is more profitable than fixing already released ones.

Edited December 29, 2022 by avenger82

[VampireNZ]

On 12/30/2022 at 3:03 AM, avenger82 said:

.... Apparently they think that working on new modules is more profitable than fixing already released ones.

 

[Miles Vorkosigan]

Squeaky wheel and all that. We do not have sufficient power of the SQUEAK. 

[BIGNEWY]

Gun sight fixed. 

bullet speed reported in other threads