Alpenwolf Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Every time I get killed in a close dogfight by some IR missile (especially the AIM-9 not the ET-27) it happens to me due to its "invisibility"! I don't see any missiles contrail although I've got visual on the enemy! I see him flaring trying to dodge missiles etc. all of a sudden, BOOM, that same guy kills me. Tacview confirms it. It's just very annoying to die like that because of, I know don't, some bug maybe?! It's happened many times to me now and it's very frustrating. Any ideas of how to fix this if it's possible? Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes, wait for DCS World 2 with the new EDGE graphics engine. It will bring awesome looking missle trails with volumetric smoke. See here for A-A: (26:10) and here for SAMs: Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktulu2 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You should keep your target in visual and check on it often and zoom. One way or another, in WVR fights where the aim-9 is involved you should have visual anyway, or getting defensive as you already fired. I'm not saying you should alway be maxed out zoom on him, just to pay attention and zoom when you think he fired. I used to check R-77s shot BVR with the zoom so it's not that hard in WVR. But with time you get a good idea of when they have chances of firing : If you're head to head, it's a great idea to pop some flares after you launched and go defensive even if you didn't see much, your IR missile are quite reliable, so IF you fired on good conditions, it should hit. Haven't tried FC2 though, only three so nevermind if they are really invisible. I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpenwolf Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I do all you've said! It simply seems to me that the contrails are somewhat of low details and thus hard to see... I don't like flaring if I don't spot a threat! Especially in a close dogfight. The flares might give out my position to the enemy! Very risky! Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDsc0rch Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 1 - not sure if you are aware but some missiles (more modern versions) are actually designed to have low-vis smoke (!!) for this very reason 2 - missiles actually have a boost phase (you might be surprised how short that actually is!) and the rest of their flight is a glide --- thus, there won't be ANY smoke trail to see at all i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Modern sidewinders and slammers use a low smoke motor. Your experience is exactly why they are used... Do the flares, what do you mean they might give away your position? He already knows you're there. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpenwolf Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ok. At one time I was flying very low and a bandit was coming in hot at a distance of less than 10k flying a bit higher than me. Flaring might alert him and "give" away my position if he didn't see me! Apparently he did see me and fired one AIM-9 at me without me being able to see that, although he was infront of me! In that case I should've flared, yes, but had he not seen me flaring would simply alert him, that's my point... 1 Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunMcKill Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Modern sidewinders and slammers use a low smoke motor. Your experience is exactly why they are used... Do the flares, what do you mean they might give away your position? He already knows you're there. Yeah, watch this video Alpen, and see how the smoke is now more gray and not white in the AIM-120 decreasing the visibility of the launch, in the test of the AIM-9L is very visible the white trail, but the test of the AIM-9X in off boresight you see not smoke at all! :helpsmilie: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwolf Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Modern sidewinders and slammers use a low smoke motor. Your experience is exactly why they are used... Do the flares, what do you mean they might give away your position? He already knows you're there. How "modern" is that ? The simulator have not a real set timeline but assuming the F15 and the Su-27 are far from being the latest version, is the smoke/absence of smoke pertinent with the game setting ? :huh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] PC simulator news site. Also....Join the largest DCS community on Facebook :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterH Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 If I recall correctly, AIM-9M and AIM-120 got smokeless motors in 90s. I think low visibity smoke can be a little more visible at close ranges than it is in DCS, but that's just a gut feeling and wouldn't do too much of a practical difference anyway. That's part of the reason AIM-9M is the single missile I am most afraid of in DCS. People don't give enough credit to how nasty it is, you won't know you're locked & launched, you can't see it approach, it has fairly decent kinetic range, can lock from any aspect at any range, is fairly good at tracking, and for looking like a thin pencil, it's warhead packs a surprising punch... that thing is nasty :P. And only sure way against it in my opinion is, preemptive flaring as Ktulu and GGTharos have suggested. Better risking to make your position known than blown out of sky by a missile you've never known to have launched in the first place. R-73 & helmet sight combination is cool but, at least in DCS, I respect 9 Mike more. R-73 will announce it's flight with generous smoke it makes, and, my gut feeling is that even if you don't count smoke factor, 9M seems to have better hit probability in sim from what I've seen at least. If only MiG-21Bis could use AIM-9M, it's potential use and threat could be much, much higher than what it is :D. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 MiG-21Bis already has a '9M'. Right now its missiles far outpace what should be available to that airframe. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfsierra2 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The missile boosters in FC and DCS are active for appr. 8 seconds. After that, they are "invisible" until a split second before they hit. Trying to spot and evade them is waste of time. kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangi Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The OP asked about contrails but most discussion seems to be about exhaust, which do you think he meant? PC: 6600K @ 4.5 GHz, 12GB RAM, GTX 970, 32" 2K monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The exhaust can cause contrails (so can maneuvering) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtPappy Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 The exhaust can cause contrails (so can maneuvering) Do you think if they produced contrails from vortices or pressure drop across surfaces, we'd be able to see them more easily as we maneuver? If so, it would be nice to add to the game, perhaps when EDGE comes around. It might change how people fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think it depends on a lot of things, so I can only answer 'maybe', and right now I have no idea if they'll be added. I doubt it, especially considering that low/no smoke motors are there probably because they contrails don't happen too often. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDsc0rch Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 i took a trip recently to the area around china lake (missile test range - usn) jet noise can be heard overhead several times a day - of course i'm looking up! watching an f/a-18 i saw "small" contrails forming off just the ailerons - and didn't last long i'd never seen that before - but clearly atmospheric conditions were such that just the ailerons were causing just enough low pressure to make the moisture in the air visible neat i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkspade Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The AIM-9 smoke isn't completely invisible, but it is really difficult to see. Though it is practically invisible at the max range you can get a kill at. Your only chance at spotting it is to be looking directly at the spot the moment of launch because its not visible long. It can generally be seen at any range you can see the bandit. http://104thphoenix.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graphic Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Another video evidence, that can fuel both directions (visible [1 min] and invisible [4:20 min]): Edited July 22, 2015 by Graphic [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 No, it can't. One is a sparrow shot (Smokey motor), the other an AIM-9M (low smoke motor). You have to know what the evidence IS before using it to argue anything. Another video evidence, that can fuel both directions (visible [1 min] and invisible [4:20 min]): [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graphic Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Sorry, my bad :unsure: the fingers were faster than the eye... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I find that when you are within visual range you can often see an orange flash under the wing of the launching aircraft as the missile's rocket engine ignites. Your best bet is therefore to keep an eye on your opponent at all times so that with luck you can spot the launch, even if the missile is essentially invisible. Coincidentally, I was surprised to notice that the early MiG-21 missiles (R-3 and K-5 families) produce very little smoke. Does anyone know if this is realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 No, it isn't. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 No, it isn't. Yeah, thought that might be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpenwolf Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Great video! Thanks! Cold War 1947 - 1991 Discord Helicopters Tournaments Combined Arms Tournaments You can help me with keeping up the server via PayPal donations: hokumyounis@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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