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F-15 or Su-27 for a newbie


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I tend to fly the Sukhoi more, just because I'm more of a fan of Eastern technology. That doesn't mean that I never take the F-15 for a spin though, and I think it's excellent also. As far as learning to train on them, both are FC3 level, which means that the avionics are simplified, and once you learn the keyboard shortcuts / joystick assignm ents for one, you will find that the vast majority are the same for both planes.

 

It boils down to which one you prefer and the style of fighting you want to take part in. The F-15 is more of a beyond visual range fighter with its active AMRAAM missiles, while the Su-27 has complete supremacy under 10km thanks to its maneuverability, and you can use the helmet mounted sight and R-73 missiles, which are superior to the sidewinder.

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...

 

But I don't know if anyone noticed my edit, I was asking if anyone knew of some good tutorials for the F-15, since the game doesn't have any tutorial missions.

Not sure if these are what you're looking for: Flankertraining.com Playlists. The F-15 tutorials were made with an earlier version but just about everything still applies.

 

Rich

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Each aircraft has its own strengths and comparative weaknesses. In a BVR fight, I'd take the Eagle any day with the more intuitive RWR and the TWS/AMRAAM punch. Flying A-Pole (F-15) vs. F-Pole (Su-27) gives the F-15 the ability to fire second and still win the BVR fight, not to mention being able to engage 4 targets simultaneously.

 

However, the Su-27 excels against the F-15 in a WVR fight. The combination HMS and the off-boresight capability of the R-73/AA-11 gives the advantage to the flanker in an equal turning fight. Both aircraft will punish you in a turning fight if you just pull the stick into your lap and hope for the best, so this is also why the Flanker will win more WVR fights online: the people who choose fly the Flanker know how to fight it in the proverbial phone booth, whereas many people who fly the F-15 practice BVR. Personally, I think the Su-27 is easier to handle in a turning fight, and I'll take the instantaneous turn rate to get that advantage.


Edited by Home Fries
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There are about as many people who know what they're doing in BFM with a flanker as there are for an eagle - just my experience. There aren't that many of them around.

 

so this is also why the Flanker will win more WVR fights online: the people who choose fly the Flanker know how to fight it in the proverbial phone booth, whereas many people who fly the F-15 practice BVR.

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I'd reluctantly have to say that for a brand new DCS pilot, the F-15 would be the way to go. I say reluctantly because the Su-27 is very much my first love when it comes to DCS aircraft. The Eagle offers a degree of care-free handling under most conditions that the Flanker simply does not, particularly with the trimmer cartridge in the F-15 that relieves the pilot of the need for constant trim adjustments in addition to the at-first bizarre way in which the control momentum curves provide feedback for the Flanker.

 

That being said, as others have commented, if you're intent on WVR engagements then the Flanker has few peers amongst flyable DCS aircraft, though it takes a LOT longer to master it and also requires constant practice to keep current.

 

Some other things to consider:

 

  • The Flanker has a HUGE internal fuel capacity, making lengthy training flights easier without the need for external tanks.
  • The TEWS and APG-63(?) radar of the Eagle offers significantly superior situational awareness to the Flanker avionics.
  • The Flanker has significantly better instantaneous turning rate and vastly better ultimate nose authority. Coupled with the helmet mounted sight and R-73 missile, the Flanker is deadly in a turning fight.

 

Ultimately it depends solely on what you'd prefer to learn. The Eagle is significantly easier whereas in my personal opinion the Flanker, when mastered to some degree of competence, is more rewarding.

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Not sure if these are what you're looking for: Flankertraining.com Playlists. The F-15 tutorials were made with an earlier version but just about everything still applies.

 

Rich

 

Thanks. Those are helpful. There's still a lot I don't know, but it seems like there aren't very many tutorials for the F-15. I'll probably have to read the manual fully.

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I second flanker training.com.

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Yeah I watched those. There were only 3 for the F-15 though. Unless I'm missing some.

You're not missing anything. There are only those three.

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So, I will give me input and this is based on me ONLY Flying the f15.

 

You need to figure out what exactly you want to do.[assuming you're planning on flying multiplayer]

 

1. Lonewolf or Teamspeak wingman.

With this subset it is hard to to make a choice. but since most lone wolfers are hide and go seek type flyers the Flanker i.m.h.o would be the better choice since it will allow passive searching with the EOS. That and it's better low and slow turn fighting.

If you plan on being on Teamspeak. The f15 imho is a little better with it's flight char. a lot more people fly the f15 in groups.

 

2. BVR or WVR or HideNgoSeak

BVR well again the f15.

WVR well this is probably tied with the HideNgoSeak more often then naught.

To me again the Flanker with its better turning, lower speed capabilities, and EOS/HMC/ and HBO abilities.

 

3. Flight cueing.

Some people don't think of this. But for most Americans learning the Metric system can be a bit daunting. I for one hate and love it at the same time [i hate it in the aeronautical sense ]. If you cannot get used to Metric then the F15. This is one of the main reasons I do not fly the flanker. I love the bird think it's absolutely gorgeous. But the cockpit just makes me want to hurl. [that and the baby blue might as well be baby poo green if you know what I mean]

 

But hey man to each his own and best of luck with what ever you choose.

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So, I will give me input and this is based on me ONLY Flying the f15.

 

You need to figure out what exactly you want to do.[assuming you're planning on flying multiplayer]

 

1. Lonewolf or Teamspeak wingman.

With this subset it is hard to to make a choice. but since most lone wolfers are hide and go seek type flyers the Flanker i.m.h.o would be the better choice since it will allow passive searching with the EOS. That and it's better low and slow turn fighting.

If you plan on being on Teamspeak. The f15 imho is a little better with it's flight char. a lot more people fly the f15 in groups.

 

2. BVR or WVR or HideNgoSeak

BVR well again the f15.

WVR well this is probably tied with the HideNgoSeak more often then naught.

To me again the Flanker with its better turning, lower speed capabilities, and EOS/HMC/ and HBO abilities.

 

3. Flight cueing.

Some people don't think of this. But for most Americans learning the Metric system can be a bit daunting. I for one hate and love it at the same time [i hate it in the aeronautical sense ]. If you cannot get used to Metric then the F15. This is one of the main reasons I do not fly the flanker. I love the bird think it's absolutely gorgeous. But the cockpit just makes me want to hurl. [that and the baby blue might as well be baby poo green if you know what I mean]

 

But hey man to each his own and best of luck with what ever you choose.

 

Yeah I've decided to go with the F15. Problem is, there are no in game tutorial missions and all the ones online focus on the radar and nothing else. Which is of course nice, but there's a lot more to learn. I'm currently reading the manual, and it's fairly helpful, it just doesn't really give enough explanation. It's like "press 2 for this, it does that" but never why I should, or when I will use it.

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the manual has 2 or 3 sections where it explains very professionaly how systems work in real life rather than dcs

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Does anyone know if the eagle is planned to receive a jhmcs + aim-9x combo in the future?

 

This would definitely bring the WVR fight closer to even and make the eagle the perfect choice. Otherwise I would just recommend avoiding neutral merges.

 

Tbh, the eagle is still easily the better choice IMO due to its thrust advantage and amraam capability; Very dominant in the BVR arena, just not so good in the close engagement with missiles. I think it actually dominates the gun fight but you are unlikely to find many of those online.

 

I have just assumed that a new player would prefer the superior aircraft btw; They are both just as difficult to learn. I suppose hipsters will always lean towards inferior aircraft though :p lol, so If that's you then fill your boots.

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F-15C all the way. Better weapons and much nicer!

Bye, SU

 

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I would say try both and choose the one you like better. The Aircrafts are close in performance but are used in very different ways.

 

For example I LOVE the helmet sight in Flanker coupled with R-73 and datalink.

 

And at the same time I LOVE the active missiles in F-15 and the ability to engage more than one target at the same time.

 

But in overall the Flanker is much more demanding for pilot skills and you have to maintain the control over the plane pretty much nonstop.

 

From a pure begginer point of view you will do better in F-15 most of the time though.

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i wanna be able to fly the predators xd

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Adding my 2c to an already overcrowded opinion pool :P I think the F-15 is more forgiving to the newer pilot/learning pilot. It has good flight characteristics and that allows you to focus on learning the other systems, it avionics are quite robust. Comparatively the Su-27 can be a bit of a handful to start with and you can get into trouble with it very easily, but once you understand her she is beautiful to fly, a real joy.

 

In capable hands, both aircraft are major threats as long as you play them to their strengths and exploit your opponents weaknesses. My opinion of the F15 is in no way an opinion on which is the "best" or "worst", just what I found worked for me in DCS :)

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I have been flying the ED Flanker since 1995, I love flying the Crane, excellent weapons as well.

 

Just poor avionics and a hideous RWR.

 

The F15C is therefore my choice of the 2 to ride into v combat. And the better choice for the newby.

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The eagle is where you start. But in future when you master the f 15 and want something more take the su 27 belive me when you kill someone with it feeling is more satisfying than kill in f 15. Won't even bring up thr mig 21

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As a new starter i would choose F-15 as well. But i have the same opinion as Stuge that you should try the SU-27 and the other fighters as well. SO you know how to defeat them. And you will learn to defeat other F-15's more easily as well.

And despite everybody say's the SU-27 is better in WVR and close in i think its a little exaggerated. I will merge with a SU-27 any day. Especially when the F-15 is low on fuel and you don't forget to drop your fuel tanks. But merging with another F-15 is a pain in the b** in my personal opinion. But watch out when merging with a SU-27.. those off boresight shots are beautiful and very deadly. But just keep your hands on the flares and hands of the burners at the right time and it should be manageable. Most of the time you get shot down by a SU-27 is because you don't see them. Not because you merged with them. Unless fighting Stuge :p


Edited by winchesterdelta1

Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.

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