"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[levanoga]

Please remove the new "tactical" markers as they are a blight in realism standards.

[Pronin]

Please remove the new "tactical" markers as they are a blight in realism standards.

 

I disagree.

 

For those that don't want to use team speak or simple radio, it is a good way to be told information and give it out.

 

IRL you would be getting non-stop updates and reports from everyone and everything.

[metzger]

And how does those who don't want to use radio com receive reports irl ? This shared markers is absolutely arcade.

And you also have chat which is also not very realistic, telling everyone what you have killed with what aircraft, reporting prety much your status to the enemy.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[QuiGon]

+1 pls remove markers

 

They exploit the game and are nothing but a cheat.

[Nirvi]

I'd prefer to remove the icon for your own plane and let the tactical markers stay.

[metzger]

Yes this too... remove both :)

Only issue is you cant use navigation systems on FC3 Aircraft and this is kind of dump, you have to navigate like ww2 plane with them.

[kobeshow]

I disagree.

 

For those that don't want to use team speak or simple radio, it is a good way to be told information and give it out.

 

 

I don't have expirience with the markers yet, specifically how they are used on the server, but the fact that this is even an argument shows the state of blueflag right now.

[QuiGon]

I'd prefer to remove the icon for your own plane and let the tactical markers stay.

 

The own aircraft icon is even worse, indeed. I would prefer both to be gone though.

[winchesterdelta1]

Markers and aircraft icon for yourself are brilliant. Gives much more SA about objectives and gives less confusion overall. Now it's more easy to plan attacks with larger groups. And team work increases 10 fold. And even the players that are not so experienced now now what is going on. it adds to the realism because in real life you have constant updates. And a map / knee board full of markers. Gameplay is way better now

 

Maybe to satisfy your extreme "realism" fetish we should let everybody that wants to enter the Blueflag server do a Navigation course and prepare a personal and squadron map with all objectives, markers and notes. Add some satellite pictures And have a team that plans the entire campaign from day 1. Now that is realism.

 

it seems to me you are just mad that you learned all this navigation and real life procedures, but others can now hop in and navigate to the target area with almost the same ease as you. And that they know exactly where to go and what's going on when entering the server.

 

These map markers makes the gameplay better, increases team work, simulates more prepared pilots. And lets even the noobs have great fun. Instead of people whining that the noobs don't know what is going on and that they don't follow instructions.

 

If you don't want this i say you prepare and plan a entire campaign with INTEL reports, Navigation cards, predictions of enemy and friendly routes and every time you start a mission you prepare for a couple day's.

Edited November 14, 2016 by winchesterdelta1

[QuiGon]

Markers and aircraft icon for yourself are brilliant. Gives much more SA about objectives and gives less confusion overall. Now it's more easy to plan attacks with larger groups. And team work increases 10 fold. And even the players that are not so experienced now now what is going on. it adds to the realism because in real life you have constant updates. And a map / knee board full of markers. Gameplay is way better now

 

Maybe to satisfy your extreme "realism" fetish we should let everybody that wants to enter the Blueflag server do a Navigation course and prepare a personal and squadron map with all objectives, markers and notes. Add some satellite pictures And have a team that plans the entire campaign from day 1. Now that is realism.

 

it seems to me you are just mad that you learned all this navigation and real life procedures, but others can now hop in and navigate to the target area with almost the same ease as you. And that they know exactly where to go and what's going on when entering the server.

 

These map markers makes the gameplay better, increases team work, simulates more prepared pilots. And lets even the noobs have great fun. Instead of people whining that the noobs don't know what is going on and that they don't follow instructions.

 

If you don't want this i say you prepare and plan a entire campaign with INTEL reports, Navigation cards, predictions of enemy and friendly routes and every time you start a mission you prepare for a couple day's.

 

You act like navigation is some kind of sorcery or witchwork :huh:

Instead it's the most basic thing in aviation, except flying the aircraft itself. If we don't want realism here, we could just switch to game mode or turn unlimited fuel and weapons on...

Of course, markers and the own aircraft symbol make it easier, but so does the game mode. Both are artifical simplifications by the game and are nothing else but cheats, because there is no way a pilot would magically see his own position or magic markers on a map, unless he actually has such equipment in his aircraft (like the A-10C or KA-50).

Edited November 14, 2016 by QuiGon

[BadHabit]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=175309

 

If you like modern era combat apps like this should not scare you guys. Else switch to 70's 60's and 40's combat era.

 

Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0100 using Tapatalk

[Weedwacker]

You act like navigation is some kind of sorcery or witchwork :huh:

Instead it's the most basic thing in aviation, except flying the aircraft itself. If we don't want realism here, we could just switch to game mode...

Of course, markers and the own aircraft symbol make it easier, but so does the game mode. Both are artifical simplifications by the game and are nothing else but cheats, because there is no way a pilot would magically see his own position or magic markers on a map, unless he actually has such equipment in his aircraft (like the A-10C or KA-50).

 

 

You sure about that?

 

 

Also, I say, I say, I like the markers tobe in, atleast for the next round.

 

This would benefit the whole community as it would help ease in new players and give them a goal and a idea of what is going on. Encourage them to dive deeper into the team work aspect.

 

I played Squad this weekend, and that game really fosters teamwork amongst people who have just met. People there weren't snide and smug, they took up lead positions, we even broke down our squads into fire teams.

 

I never see that in DCS unless you go through the hoops of befriending someone with your limited free time or join a Virtual Air Wing.

 

As far as navigation goes, the Buddy Spike gadget is pretty much your goto map anyway, gives exact cordinates to go.

 

Besides you have GCI basically telling you where to go anyway, with pin point accuracy, all you are required to do is read your heading tape. Doubt a new person will figure out the distance exactly though (I know I dont have a wiz wheel on me, but again it can foster encouragement to do so).

 

One more thing, the basic layout hasn't changed, I'm able to dead reckon most of the FARPs and Comm Arrays at this point. (Not a knock to BuddySpike team). The "NEED" which is more of a ""WANT"" from the vocal subsect of no markers would just detract and send BlueFlag into a pool of cliques and quasi elitism that goes around tauting "REALISM" in a setup already missing many key features of said "REALISM".

 

LONG STORY SHORT:

Cool your jets boys....XD

 

And lets give this new feature a shot. Maybe one day we could have two version of such a event. One that would be a event void of markers, and preexsisting information. Completely new objectives. More for Virtual Wings vs Virtual Wings

 

And then Blueflag as we have now. Something to really give everyone a purpose and to really give our modules a good leg stretching.

 

*I did not proof read this after. Sorry for any mistakes.

[plaiskool]

The own aircraft icon is even worse, indeed. I would prefer both to be gone though.

 

Do you know that lot of plane have IRL L16 or IPad that give instant posit even the Super Etendard was flying with that...

 

And in eagle im pretty sure they have instant self posit/ ennemy posit bulls nowdays instead of doing HSI point to point which is impossible when doing proper BVR with multiple assets

 

 

i agree with WInchester on that point...

 

 

If you want realism then provide your medical class 1 certificate if you want to join the serv.

[Weedwacker]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=175309

 

If you like modern era combat apps like this should not scare you guys. Else switch to 70's 60's and 40's combat era.

 

Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0100 using Tapatalk

 

Wow that is cool that bandit board.

 

See thats what Blueflag is too me currently, its as modern as it can be and also maintaining a balance between the east vs west roster. Not that I am against hanicaps or buffs to either side. I played it when they (west) did have 120s, certainly makes it a different for the Reds.

[kobeshow]

 

I played Squad this weekend, and that game really fosters teamwork amongst people who have just met. People there weren't snide and smug, they took up lead positions, we even broke down our squads into fire teams.

 

I never see that in DCS unless you go through the hoops of befriending someone with your limited free time or join a Virtual Air Wing.

 

 

The following is not meant as an argument for or against markers, keep them or take them away I don't care.

 

I am not really convinced by this argument, Squad works because it has in-game communications that are easy to understand and setup, and people use them to actually communicate.

I have had bad expiriences with Squad aswell, so it depends on the other players alot, just like it does here.

 

When I first joined this event in round 5 it was a bunch of randoms on Red meeting in teamspeak and actually trying to coordinate, we actually split up in different channels back then when SimpleRadio wasn't available. That discipline quickly deteriorated though, and when SimpleRadio became available my biggest fear was that it would further split up the few people that are on coms, and look where we are now: no one on teamspeak, no one on SimpleRadio. I see that Blue handled implementation of SimpleRadio a bit better, probably thanks to RvE aggressively recruiting a lot of players from Blueflag, which I think is great, it helps promote teamwork and communication.

 

Coms are key, and people need to be willing to communicate, that means they need to be able to talk, but more importantly they need to be able to listen. "But what about new players that want to have fun?" I agree, they should not be excluded, but unless you are willing to read the SOP and be on coms with your team you should not be allowed on the server, it doesn't even take 20 minutes to do that. We have a lot of "just join and do your thing"-servers already.

 

For some reason Blueflag has become a place where anyone can join at any time, without proir knowledge of anything, and waste a few airframes to get their airquake in.

Edited November 14, 2016 by kobeshow

[QuiGon]

You sure about that?

*pic*

That's not what we have in DCS (not yet).

 

 

Also, I say, I say, I like the markers tobe in, atleast for the next round.

 

This would benefit the whole community as it would help ease in new players and give them a goal and a idea of what is going on. Encourage them to dive deeper into the team work aspect.

 

I played Squad this weekend, and that game really fosters teamwork amongst people who have just met. People there weren't snide and smug, they took up lead positions, we even broke down our squads into fire teams.

 

I never see that in DCS unless you go through the hoops of befriending someone with your limited free time or join a Virtual Air Wing.

I also play squad from time to time and I regulary play ArmA with a tactical community (United Operations, something like the virtual fighter squadrons in DCS). We use map markers like that there for our pre-missions briefings which can take up to 15-30 minutes. It is indeed a great tool for that, but in our community it is also not allowed to use this after the briefing when the mission is live for the very same reasons I stated: It's unrealistic magic.

 

As far as navigation goes, the Buddy Spike gadget is pretty much your goto map anyway, gives exact cordinates to go.

It gives the position of static objects. Nothing wrong with this, because you can be briefed with them before takeoff.

 

Besides you have GCI basically telling you where to go anyway, with pin point accuracy, all you are required to do is read your heading tape. Doubt a new person will figure out the distance exactly though (I know I dont have a wiz wheel on me, but again it can foster encouragement to do so).

Which is fine, because it's realistic. Even a WW2 aircraft can recieve radio signals...

 

One more thing, the basic layout hasn't changed, I'm able to dead reckon most of the FARPs and Comm Arrays at this point. (Not a knock to BuddySpike team). The "NEED" which is more of a ""WANT"" from the vocal subsect of no markers would just detract and send BlueFlag into a pool of cliques and quasi elitism that goes around tauting "REALISM" in a setup already missing many key features of said "REALISM".

The layout could indeed be changed from time to time, but what does this have to do with realism? IRL there are also pilots who are already familiar with the AO and new pilots who are not. And saying more realism makes no sense because there is realism missing makes no sense either.

[QuiGon]

Do you know that lot of plane have IRL L16 or IPad that give instant posit even the Super Etendard was flying with that...

 

And in eagle im pretty sure they have instant self posit/ ennemy posit bulls nowdays instead of doing HSI point to point which is impossible when doing proper BVR with multiple assets

 

 

i agree with WInchester on that point...

 

 

If you want realism then provide your medical class 1 certificate if you want to join the serv.

 

Yes I know and as I already said: If an aircraft has such systems then it's fine to use them (like A-10C TAD and Ka-50 ABRIS), but these are actual systems and not some magic map makers that are magically known to everyone instantly.

[Weedwacker]

"That's not what we have in DCS (not yet)."

 

- But its okay to use Simple Radio and TS3?

 

"I also play squad from time to time and I regulary play ArmA with a tactical community (United Operations, something like the virtual fighter squadrons in DCS). We use map markers like that there for our pre-missions briefings which can take up to 15-30 minutes. It is indeed a great tool for that, but in our community it is also not allowed to use this after the briefing when the mission is live for the very same reasons I stated: It's unrealistic magic."

 

- So...having a GPS in the plane with you is magic?

 

"It gives the position of static objects. Nothing wrong with this, because you can be briefed with them before takeoff."

 

- And a real pilot wouldn't have marked these positions on his map to take inflight with him?

 

"Which is fine, because it's realistic. Even a WW2 aircraft can recieve radio signals..."

 

-And talk on multiply freqs, even when some birds cannot do this, how can we know who is maintaining strict code of ethics here.../s

 

 

"The layout could indeed be changed from time to time, but what does this have to do with realism? IRL there are also pilots who are already familiar with the AO and new pilots who are not. And saying more realism makes no sense because there is realism missing makes no sense either."

 

-Because realism would only be 1 life for starters. Two, the enemy would reposition things......Three, there is no real ground war, no tank convoys, no infantry.

 

The battlefield is a organic environment, not this, rinse, repeat, try try again. So really, by removing markers... What do you essentially gain other then a placebo effect of furthering the fantasy. If that's it, then so be it...I don't think it will be as fun unless your rolling in your cliques.

 

Also the round is in testing, it's going to be dead right now as far as comms go. When the round starts, people crawl out of the wood work I notice and both ts3 and SRS fill up quite abit.

[Frostie]

See thats what Blueflag is too me currently, its as modern as it can be and also maintaining a balance between the east vs west roster. Not that I am against hanicaps or buffs to either side. I played it when they (west) did have 120s, certainly makes it a different for the Reds.

When I choose to be a Flanker pilot i'd rather have the 120's and ER's, the 27R is very poor compared to the AIM-7 and uber MATRA (which has nearly as much energy as EDs ER and 120). As a Red fighter pilot in both scenarios either teamwork or sneaking up on bandits is the best way to operate and having an 27ET in this situation is far more effective than relying on the 27T airbrake, there is no bullying blue fighters whichever scenario you choose other than taking the Mirage in the 80s.

 

As a strike pilot though the weaker missile selection brings us all closer together which adds to the enjoyment of the battle, shooting down fighters with Su25s, A-10s, F-5s and MiG-21s becomes more of an option without the big sticks. It's just a shame ED don't pull their finger out and get their own missiles at least up to RAZBAM standard.

[metzger]

Lets turn on labels to make it easier for the new players and for people who don't want to loose time to use their radar :)

Also make all modules available to all sides this will make it perfectly balamced ;)

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[il_corleone]

If Tactical markers or Own position marking should be off, I would say to take out the latter, Tactical markers really help and they are not a cheat, pilots can submit their info to the HQ who automatically tells it to other pilots in the same coaltion. Think of it as a HQ transmitting.

 

On the other side, Own position marking is there and nobody is crying as for tactical markers when these are really helpful.

 

Tactical markers does also the function of an AWACS even when you have none, Arma has this and is not an "arcade setting". What ED should maybe do is that only Tactical commanders can write on them 24/7 or the people in the same base can share their marks before takeoff

[levanoga]

Markers and aircraft icon for yourself are brilliant. Gives much more SA about objectives and gives less confusion overall. Now it's more easy to plan attacks with larger groups. And team work increases 10 fold. And even the players that are not so experienced now now what is going on. it adds to the realism because in real life you have constant updates. And a map / knee board full of markers. Gameplay is way better now

 

Maybe to satisfy your extreme "realism" fetish we should let everybody that wants to enter the Blueflag server do a Navigation course and prepare a personal and squadron map with all objectives, markers and notes. Add some satellite pictures And have a team that plans the entire campaign from day 1. Now that is realism.

 

it seems to me you are just mad that you learned all this navigation and real life procedures, but others can now hop in and navigate to the target area with almost the same ease as you. And that they know exactly where to go and what's going on when entering the server.

 

These map markers makes the gameplay better, increases team work, simulates more prepared pilots. And lets even the noobs have great fun. Instead of people whining that the noobs don't know what is going on and that they don't follow instructions.

 

If you don't want this i say you prepare and plan a entire campaign with INTEL reports, Navigation cards, predictions of enemy and friendly routes and every time you start a mission you prepare for a couple day's.

 

You are going waaaay overboard with your accusations, even so far to verbally attack others.

 

Removing the markers and position icon would make communication/coordination even more important. The role and importance of GCI increases tenfold and instead of him being non-essential he becomes critical for success.

 

You don't know where you are? Ask GCI for your current position.

You don't have anything to do? Check in with GCI and request a tasking.

If there is no GCI you are playing Blue Flag the wrong way.

 

Communication, coordination, collaboration, success

 

If noobs do not know what is going on, they haven't read the briefing and should ask for instructions in chat or TS.

 

The only current issues with GCI is DCS being dumb again with its disappearing mouse cursor and a JTAC in a HMW having better radar detection of fighters than a EWR.

[QuiGon]

- But its okay to use Simple Radio and TS3?

Simple Radio is indeed okay, because it simulates the real radios. TS3 on the other hand is not realistic of course, but that's why Ciribob was so kind to create SR.

 

- So...having a GPS in the plane with you is magic?

I already said it twice and I will say it again: If such a device is present in the aircraft, then it is okay (A-10C, Ka-50). You don't need the magic F-10 map features then...

 

- And a real pilot wouldn't have marked these positions on his map to take inflight with him?

Of course he would. Static positions are no issue. The problem is with mobile positions, like the position of aircraft and units. He won't have them magically updating on his map.

 

-And talk on multiply freqs, even when some birds cannot do this, how can we know who is maintaining strict code of ethics here.../s

Simple radio takes care of this already (I would say it's about time to replace TS with SR entirely ;))

 

-Because realism would only be 1 life for starters. Two, the enemy would reposition things......Three, there is no real ground war, no tank convoys, no infantry.

I don't quite understand the life thing? As for ground war: Yeah, that's indeed a major issue, but these are the technical limitations of the game.

 

The battlefield is a organic environment, not this, rinse, repeat, try try again. So really, by removing markers... What do you essentially gain other then a placebo effect of furthering the fantasy. If that's it, then so be it...I don't think it will be as fun unless your rolling in your cliques.

I don't really understand what you mean by placebo effecnt and fantasy? :huh:

I gain more realism by removing magic features that a real pilot doesn't have.

Edited November 14, 2016 by QuiGon

[winchesterdelta1]

You sure about that?

 

 

Also, I say, I say, I like the markers tobe in, atleast for the next round.

 

This would benefit the whole community as it would help ease in new players and give them a goal and a idea of what is going on. Encourage them to dive deeper into the team work aspect.

 

I played Squad this weekend, and that game really fosters teamwork amongst people who have just met. People there weren't snide and smug, they took up lead positions, we even broke down our squads into fire teams.

 

I never see that in DCS unless you go through the hoops of befriending someone with your limited free time or join a Virtual Air Wing.

 

As far as navigation goes, the Buddy Spike gadget is pretty much your goto map anyway, gives exact cordinates to go.

 

Besides you have GCI basically telling you where to go anyway, with pin point accuracy, all you are required to do is read your heading tape. Doubt a new person will figure out the distance exactly though (I know I dont have a wiz wheel on me, but again it can foster encouragement to do so).

 

One more thing, the basic layout hasn't changed, I'm able to dead reckon most of the FARPs and Comm Arrays at this point. (Not a knock to BuddySpike team). The "NEED" which is more of a ""WANT"" from the vocal subsect of no markers would just detract and send BlueFlag into a pool of cliques and quasi elitism that goes around tauting "REALISM" in a setup already missing many key features of said "REALISM".

 

LONG STORY SHORT:

Cool your jets boys....XD

 

And lets give this new feature a shot. Maybe one day we could have two version of such a event. One that would be a event void of markers, and preexsisting information. Completely new objectives. More for Virtual Wings vs Virtual Wings

 

And then Blueflag as we have now. Something to really give everyone a purpose and to really give our modules a good leg stretching.

 

*I did not proof read this after. Sorry for any mistakes.

 

Thank you sir. Finally somebody that not only things about himself. But also the team work. And those tools actually help a shit ton with team work and get things organized. It also causes less complains and stupid questions from new players. And it caters to the fact that people also just want to jump in and help their friend. Instead of reading and studying numerous pages of intel or playing Blueflag every day, day in and day out. They now can quickly see what to do... CAP here, SAM zone here, attack this. Instead of bothering other people with questions about the entire situation you now can actually support your friends and team form the get go. Even if you are a lone wolf.

 

It has nothing to do with cheating, game mode, or unrealisticnes. It has all to do with the flow of battle, gameplay and team work without jumping to extreme's like game mode or prepare a 15 day campaign where only the elite can follow the plan to the Millie second and have their bombs dropped in time.

[winchesterdelta1]

Blueflag is whats bringing more and more people to DCS and try multiplayer. Because of it being dynamic, because you can make progress and because of the team work. And team work can still be improved on. These map markers and plane icon help a lot with it without having to be a pro in navigation from the get go. Easy to understand gameplay and the low threshold to jump in makes people makes a lot of people try it and fall in love. After that we send them to you to learn proper precision navigation QuiGon and hope the ones that only fly a couple hours a month remember it next month without asking another zillion questions on how to do this again.