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Smooth as butter at 60fps, choppy and Jerky at 30fps


Jacks

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I have a 60Hz monitor but my rig struggles to run DCS at 60Fps and so I would like to set the max FPS to 30, half the display fresh rate. I have read several people on these forums describing 30fps as silky smooth.

 

For me 30fps is choppy and riddled with micro-stutters which makes it unpleasant to look at and makes me feel queasy. All at 30fps, trackir is very jerky and I get ghosting when panning the view fast which I don't get at 60fps. A steady 60fps on my machine is a pleasure to watch.

 

I assume that this is not normal since the human can only register about 25fps and so surely there should be no discernible difference between 60 and 30 FPS. I have found that when lowering the max FPS incrementally from 60 to 30, the jerkiness gets progressively worse.

 

Can anyone think what might be causing this?

 

Jacks

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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I assume that this is not normal since the human can only register about 25fps and so surely there should be no discernible difference between 60 and 30 FPS.

 

brace for a flood of opinions about "frame rate of the human eye" :music_whistling:

 

25 (or rather 24 for film) is just the standard, it is around the minimum fps to get the illusion of animation. You can perceive the difference between 30 and 60, if not scientifically, you can feel it.

 

I cannot say what it is that is causing the trouble you describe, but I would venture this suggestion; if you changed the frame rate in-game, then try changing it in your driver (or vice versa). Nvidia drivers have this feature that fixes the fps at half the monitor's rate and that gave me a much better display than changing the in-game setting.

 

On the other hand, maybe 2.0 will be out soon and reports suggest that will solve fps problems.

 

**EDIT - that nvidia feature is on the vsync setting, "adaptive (half refresh rate)"


Edited by beers
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24 FPS was made for movies because at a higher rate the reels would be so big that they wouldn't fit the projection equipment. 24 was the lowest they could go to get acceptable quality.

 

The thing is a video game isn't a movie. When you throw "head panning" into the mix it changes everything because of the added (or subtracted) degrees of motion. Perception of motion is also impacted in flight sims directly by the degrees of turn rate of the aircraft. The higher the turn rate , the higher the FPS is required to keep the illusion.

 

There was a really old study about this but they only used a fixed forward view. They don't take into account movement of the viewpoint at all. It's too much maths for my tiny brain to handle but that's the gist of it. One could infer that if you were turning right and also panning right that it would take an even higher FPS to continue to look smooth.


Edited by Slayer

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I have a 60Hz monitor but my rig struggles to run DCS at 60Fps and so I would like to set the max FPS to 30, half the display fresh rate. I have read several people on these forums describing 30fps as silky smooth.

 

For me 30fps is choppy and riddled with micro-stutters which makes it unpleasant to look at and makes me feel queasy. All at 30fps, trackir is very jerky and I get ghosting when panning the view fast which I don't get at 60fps. A steady 60fps on my machine is a pleasure to watch.

 

I assume that this is not normal since the human can only register about 25fps and so surely there should be no discernible difference between 60 and 30 FPS. I have found that when lowering the max FPS incrementally from 60 to 30, the jerkiness gets progressively worse.

 

Can anyone think what might be causing this?

 

Jacks

 

Try using Vsync rather than a frame rate limiter. It might help, it might not, but worth a try right? I personally find that the visual tearing that can occur when vsync is off very unpleasant (it makes my eyes hurt) so that might be part of your problem.

 

Also make sure you have some of the more graphically expensive effects like TSSAA turned off. DCS often has a lot going on and the 'stuttering' can be a result of things like explosion effects that you can't actually see (A-10s dropping large numbers of cluster bombs can drop my frame rate from 25-50fps to more like 5fps). Reducing the load on your GPU will help with that.

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If you're using an Nvidia graphics card, try using Adaptive Vsync. Set Vsync off in DCS and enable Adaptive in Nvidia Control panel. I notice a huge improvement in smoothness using this with DCS.

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I run the Sim with application-controlled vsync on as I get tearing if I do not. For me adaptive vsync also causes tearing. I have already turned down some features so I only have 2x MsAA, no TSAA, no tree shadows, reflections mirrors, no,HDR etc. Most of my nvidia settings are application controlled and I have set maximum single monitor performance and max of 1 pre-rendered frame.

 

If I disable trackir, with A fixed view, at 30fps the terrain stutters past the canopy and is jerky.i remember FSX being smoother at 25FPS.

 

Jacks


Edited by Jacks

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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I run the Sim with application-controlled vsync on as I get tearing if I do not. For me adaptive vsync also causes tearing. I have already turned down some features so I only have 2x MsAA, no TSAA, no tree shadows, reflections mirrors, no,HDR etc. Most of my nvidia settings are application controlled and I have set maximum single monitor performance and max of 1 pre-rendered frame.

 

If I disable trackir, with A fixed view, at 30fps the terrain stutters past the canopy and is jerky.i remember FSX being smoother at 25FPS.

 

Jacks

 

 

 

Then maybe it is your system not being able to keep up (Bottlenecking) as it were. What are your system specs.?

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

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I5 3570k at 4.5GHz, GTX 770 2Gb, 8Gb 1600hz RAM, 240Gb SSD. Playing at good old 1920x1080.

 

Although my system isn't the fastest, it should be capable of playing dcs at decent fps.......

 

Jacks

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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Is the GPU overclocked? Nice system.

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

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Yes the gpu is over locked to 1240hz on core clock, haven't touched the memory clock.

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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Remove the overclock and retry the sim.

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

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as well as the above... what is your monitor's native refresh rate? (if it is 59Hz, you will have problems at trying to run 30fps)

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

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My monitor has a refresh rate of 60.

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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I tried returning the house to default settings but not change.

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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is the confirmation of 60Hz from the monitor itself, or from within Windows? I know this is a silly question, but it does make a difference

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

EVGA X99 FTW, EVGA GTX980Ti FTW, i7 5930K, 16Gb Corsair Dominator 2666Hz, Windows 7 Ultimate 64Bit, Intel 520 SSD x 2, Samsung PX2370 monitor and all the other toys

-

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar"

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24/25/30 FPS is fine for movies as the individual frames are already motion blurred so at this FPS the movie/animation looks smooth. Computer generated frames are a crispy clear picture in itself. That is why for games you want an FPS rate near the 60ies, preferably equal to the refresh rate of your monitor.

 

If you have drops below 60FPS once in a while I'd suggest using adaptive vsync (both DCS and Nvidia do not offer non-adaptive vsync).

 

If you have <60FPS for the majority of time, you might be better off with either vsync or adaptive vsync + 30FPS limit set (LUA).

 

* vsync: limits FPS to monitor's Hz + limits FPS to the lowest FPS so that every single frame lasts for the same whole number of refresh cycles.

Example: 53FPS becomes 30FPS;

31FPS > 30FPS

28FPS > 20FPS

17FPS > 15FPS

 

** adaptive vsync: limits FPS to monitor's Hz but toggles syncing off when FPS drops below monitor's Hz. The problem with adaptive vsync is that you will get different FPS rates if your GPU/CPU can't continuously keep up with the monitor's rate.

 

In general you will rather have a constant but low (e.g. 30) frame rate, than a frame rate which is continuously jumping between whatever and 60. If your rig can't maintain 60, either live with it or upgrade. But I'd strongly recommend the latter. You will often hear people with lower-end rigs defending their situation by saying only fast paced games like FPS/combat oriented RPG need high FPS. Trust me, that's bullshit. I've been there, and the difference between flying with 30FPS and 60FPS is worth upgrading!

 

One last note, micro stuttering while still measuring a decent FPS is most likely the result of your VRAM bus not being fast enough for the complexity and size of textures you're trying to push through. Hiccups in a pipeline will cause micro stuttering.


Edited by Grand
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The monitor itself is 60hz according to the manufacturer and I have it set at 60hz in asus you tweak. If I cap the dos to 50, I also change the refresh rate to 50hz.

 

Jacks

System Specs: i7 8700k @ 5.0GHz (not delidded), ASRock Extreme4 Z370 MOBO, EVGA GTX 1080 SC 8GB, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz DDR4 RAM, Samsung Evo 240GB SSD, Samsung Evo 500GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Noctura NH-D15S Heat Sink, Acer VE278H 27" 1080p Monitor, Ocukus Rift CV1.

 

Controllers: TrackIR 5, Thrustmaster HOTAS X, Saitek Throttle Quadrant (with DIY removable collective mod), Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals.

 

Just trying to keep my number of takeoffs and landings equal!

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