GC1993 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi All On single player A2A combat I try and stay either above 39k feet or below 26k feet so that enemy AI planes can't see my contrails from a long way off and I stay "invisible" for as long as possible giving me an advantage - does it actually make a difference with AI planes? Whilst it is nice hiding at above 40K feet and getting a high & fast missile shot off at a bandit, getting fired upon at that altitude in the current F-15 AFM makes manoeuvring a little tricky and it would be nice to be about 5 or 10k feet lower for a better defensive position whilst not giving myself away.......so does it make a difference on single player? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerd1000 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hi All On single player A2A combat I try and stay either above 39k feet or below 26k feet so that enemy AI planes can't see my contrails from a long way off and I stay "invisible" for as long as possible giving me an advantage - does it actually make a difference with AI planes? Whilst it is nice hiding at above 40K feet and getting a high & fast missile shot off at a bandit, getting fired upon at that altitude in the current F-15 AFM makes manoeuvring a little tricky and it would be nice to be about 5 or 10k feet lower for a better defensive position whilst not giving myself away.......so does it make a difference on single player? Cheers It is my understanding that the AI doesn't really 'see' per say. Instead the game engine tells the AI where you are at all times, and the AI then decides whether it is allowed to act on that information based the distance and direction it would be looking along to spot you (AI planes aren't allowed to 'see' planes that are in their cockpit blind-spots). I rather doubt that contrails (which are just a particle effect) have any influence on that. You can see evidence for the above by looking at AI SAM units using the F5 camera as you approach them. Vehicles like the TOR and Tunguska will keep their radar retracted and off-line until you come within a certain range, at which point they will extend their antenna and power up, even if you are hidden from them by a 5km tall mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average_pilot Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Then the question translates to "will the AI detection range increase if my plane is throwing out contrails?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm pretty sure the AI does not react to contrails in any way. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 +1. Would be great. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaccoZ__Amigo1__ Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I'm pretty sure the AI does not react to contrails in any way. If that is true, it would be a major flaw IMHO as in multiplayer Air-to-Air (e.g. 104th Server) flying in cons makes you visible for houndreds of miles and will make you vulnerable to sneak attacks from even F-15s, as they dont need to use their RADAR to see you, Death is just nature's way of telling you to watch your airspeed. :pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 What is this AI thing people keep talking about? Come online guys :) ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC1993 Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 What is this AI thing people keep talking about? Come online guys :) :thumbup: I do go online also, but sometimes I like to play my own missions I've created :joystick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 In 1.2.16 contrails don't appear to effect visual detection at all. The thing to keep in mind is that AI rely on several different forms of detection that it may not be all that easy to "remain invisible." In a simple mission I setup to test the behavior I set a Mig-15 to fly below contrails and eventually fly in the cons while a F-86 was flying just below cons on a parallel and chasing courses. Relying only on visual detection the F-86 only spotted the Mig-15 when the Mig reached the end of its route, turned, started heading toward the nearest airbase, and the two AI got fairly close together. Adding in a Blue AWACs the F-86 detected the Mig-15 much sooner via other means, and promptly flew an intercept route. Its entirely possible that had the Mig, (or any other aircraft) done anything different like firing weapons (especially missiles), popping flares, or flew in anything but a straight line would cause other AI to be more likely to visually detect the aircraft. The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 This is another example of a question that should just be put to the developers for an answer. There should be no need for experiments or speculation. It's a yes or no question. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Well, since they rarely talk to us we have to try it. Besides, it is fun! :D DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiza Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Don't spoil the magic :) Finding out how AI perform, what they react to, what they don't and then modifying your tactics to account the weakness in the game code only spoils the fun in the long run in my opinion. Finding out how stupid they are lessens the satisfaction of defeating them. Fly against them like they are human. Leave the secrets of AI logic to the magician mission makers and keep the magic alive :thumbup: Edited August 29, 2015 by Kaiza [url=http://www.aef-hq.com.au/aef4/forumdisplay.php?262-Digital-Combat-Simulator][SIGPIC]http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2500/a10161sqnsignitureedite.png[/SIGPIC][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Such things are important for mission designers. Because people won't have fun in missions when they rely on tactics that work in real life but don't work in the sim. For example that's why all my human vs. AI A2A missions don't have any clouds at all. AI can see through them, humans cannot. Frustrating. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grunf Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Such things are important for mission designers. Because people won't have fun in missions when they rely on tactics that work in real life but don't work in the sim. For example that's why all my human vs. AI A2A missions don't have any clouds at all. AI can see through them, humans cannot. Frustrating. If the cloud cover is 90-100% the AI can't see through it. If it's less than 90% the AI can see, not sure if it can only see through the holes in the cloud cover, or through the small clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma6584 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Don't spoil the magic :) Finding out how AI perform, what they react to, what they don't and then modifying your tactics to account the weakness in the game code only spoils the fun in the long run in my opinion. Finding out how stupid they are lessens the satisfaction of defeating them. Fly against them like they are human. Leave the secrets of AI logic to the magician mission makers and keep the magic alive :thumbup: +1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Don't spoil the magic :) Finding out how AI perform, what they react to, what they don't and then modifying your tactics to account the weakness in the game code only spoils the fun in the long run in my opinion. Finding out how stupid they are lessens the satisfaction of defeating them. Fly against them like they are human. Leave the secrets of AI logic to the magician mission makers and keep the magic alive :thumbup: I would like to explain how simple and stupid the AI is, but that is reason what makes currently DCS a bad sim as it really is so simple in everything else than flight modeling. And once you notice and learn how simple it is, you do lose the fun from it. I really hope the DCS 2.5 or 3.0 will get simulation for AI, meaning visibility, distances, directions, times etc gets simulated. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 If the cloud cover is 90-100% the AI can't see through it. If it's less than 90% the AI can see, not sure if it can only see through the holes in the cloud cover, or through the small clouds. But now the cloud cover 9-10 is useless as it is heavy storm coverage. Blocking all visibility. Then range 1-8 is like nothing until the sudden clouds appear. The good AI system in future should allow complex cloud renderings, where cloud can be 2-3km tall and all kind shaped ones, so pilots could fly hide and seek between/among clouds and IR emission would be important there. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts