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AI respond to contrails


GC1993

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Hi All

 

On single player A2A combat I try and stay either above 39k feet or below 26k feet so that enemy AI planes can't see my contrails from a long way off and I stay "invisible" for as long as possible giving me an advantage - does it actually make a difference with AI planes?

 

Whilst it is nice hiding at above 40K feet and getting a high & fast missile shot off at a bandit, getting fired upon at that altitude in the current F-15 AFM makes manoeuvring a little tricky and it would be nice to be about 5 or 10k feet lower for a better defensive position whilst not giving myself away.......so does it make a difference on single player?

 

Cheers

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Hi All

 

On single player A2A combat I try and stay either above 39k feet or below 26k feet so that enemy AI planes can't see my contrails from a long way off and I stay "invisible" for as long as possible giving me an advantage - does it actually make a difference with AI planes?

 

Whilst it is nice hiding at above 40K feet and getting a high & fast missile shot off at a bandit, getting fired upon at that altitude in the current F-15 AFM makes manoeuvring a little tricky and it would be nice to be about 5 or 10k feet lower for a better defensive position whilst not giving myself away.......so does it make a difference on single player?

 

Cheers

 

It is my understanding that the AI doesn't really 'see' per say. Instead the game engine tells the AI where you are at all times, and the AI then decides whether it is allowed to act on that information based the distance and direction it would be looking along to spot you (AI planes aren't allowed to 'see' planes that are in their cockpit blind-spots). I rather doubt that contrails (which are just a particle effect) have any influence on that.

 

You can see evidence for the above by looking at AI SAM units using the F5 camera as you approach them. Vehicles like the TOR and Tunguska will keep their radar retracted and off-line until you come within a certain range, at which point they will extend their antenna and power up, even if you are hidden from them by a 5km tall mountain.

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I'm pretty sure the AI does not react to contrails in any way.

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I'm pretty sure the AI does not react to contrails in any way.

 

 

If that is true, it would be a major flaw IMHO as in multiplayer Air-to-Air (e.g. 104th Server) flying in cons makes you visible for houndreds of miles and will make you vulnerable to sneak attacks from even F-15s, as they dont need to use their RADAR to see you,

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In 1.2.16 contrails don't appear to effect visual detection at all. The thing to keep in mind is that AI rely on several different forms of detection that it may not be all that easy to "remain invisible." In a simple mission I setup to test the behavior I set a Mig-15 to fly below contrails and eventually fly in the cons while a F-86 was flying just below cons on a parallel and chasing courses. Relying only on visual detection the F-86 only spotted the Mig-15 when the Mig reached the end of its route, turned, started heading toward the nearest airbase, and the two AI got fairly close together. Adding in a Blue AWACs the F-86 detected the Mig-15 much sooner via other means, and promptly flew an intercept route.

 

Its entirely possible that had the Mig, (or any other aircraft) done anything different like firing weapons (especially missiles), popping flares, or flew in anything but a straight line would cause other AI to be more likely to visually detect the aircraft.

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This is another example of a question that should just be put to the developers for an answer. There should be no need for experiments or speculation. It's a yes or no question.

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Don't spoil the magic :)

 

Finding out how AI perform, what they react to, what they don't and then modifying your tactics to account the weakness in the game code only spoils the fun in the long run in my opinion. Finding out how stupid they are lessens the satisfaction of defeating them.

 

Fly against them like they are human. Leave the secrets of AI logic to the magician mission makers and keep the magic alive :thumbup:


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[url=http://www.aef-hq.com.au/aef4/forumdisplay.php?262-Digital-Combat-Simulator][SIGPIC]http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2500/a10161sqnsignitureedite.png[/SIGPIC][/url]
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Such things are important for mission designers. Because people won't have fun in missions when they rely on tactics that work in real life but don't work in the sim.

For example that's why all my human vs. AI A2A missions don't have any clouds at all. AI can see through them, humans cannot. Frustrating.

If the cloud cover is 90-100% the AI can't see through it. If it's less than 90% the AI can see, not sure if it can only see through the holes in the cloud cover, or through the small clouds.

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Don't spoil the magic :)

 

Finding out how AI perform, what they react to, what they don't and then modifying your tactics to account the weakness in the game code only spoils the fun in the long run in my opinion. Finding out how stupid they are lessens the satisfaction of defeating them.

 

Fly against them like they are human. Leave the secrets of AI logic to the magician mission makers and keep the magic alive :thumbup:

 

+1 :thumbup:

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Don't spoil the magic :)

 

Finding out how AI perform, what they react to, what they don't and then modifying your tactics to account the weakness in the game code only spoils the fun in the long run in my opinion. Finding out how stupid they are lessens the satisfaction of defeating them.

 

Fly against them like they are human. Leave the secrets of AI logic to the magician mission makers and keep the magic alive :thumbup:

 

I would like to explain how simple and stupid the AI is, but that is reason what makes currently DCS a bad sim as it really is so simple in everything else than flight modeling.

 

And once you notice and learn how simple it is, you do lose the fun from it.

 

I really hope the DCS 2.5 or 3.0 will get simulation for AI, meaning visibility, distances, directions, times etc gets simulated.

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If the cloud cover is 90-100% the AI can't see through it. If it's less than 90% the AI can see, not sure if it can only see through the holes in the cloud cover, or through the small clouds.

 

But now the cloud cover 9-10 is useless as it is heavy storm coverage. Blocking all visibility.

Then range 1-8 is like nothing until the sudden clouds appear.

 

The good AI system in future should allow complex cloud renderings, where cloud can be 2-3km tall and all kind shaped ones, so pilots could fly hide and seek between/among clouds and IR emission would be important there.

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