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AGM-65 as TGP. the method


BackboneOne

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as we know a drag index of TGP is 1.17 which is more then mavs (0.82) and really slowing hog down. the idea is using AGM-65 camera as targeting pod like A-10A drivers used to do in first gulf war.

 

the only question is method. can someone share knowledge of step-by-step strafe\bomb delivery without TGP?

 

476th are most welcome, as i can see from your 476th Payload Presets this technique is practicing by your squadron :smilewink:

MB: Asus ROG Strix Z390-E \ CPU: i9-9900K NZXT Kraken X52\ DDR4: 3000MHz G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32Gb RAM \

VID: MSI Nvidia RTX4070 12GB \ MON: Samsung ue49ks8000 49'', Lilliput 8'' x2

CNTRL: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog \ Saitek Combat Rudder pedals \ TrackIR 5 \ Thrustmaster MFD Cougar Pack

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I would wait for the other guys to answer but what the hell

 

It really depends on what u wanna drop. In the case of IAMs u need somthing to generate accurate coords, so there u could create a mk point with the seeker and then make it your spi. For LGBs u need buddy lase or a jtac.

Now for dumb bombs u drop em with canopy references as well as knowing before hand the parametres of said delivery, but again, if u wanna get accurate for the base distance u can slew your mav to the tgt and create mk point.

 

I dont think having less drag is an excuse to not carry a tgp. The only excuse would be that u wanna carry more than 2 mavs or u dont have one available or directed by flt lead (given a MP scenario).


Edited by Kimi_uy
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Unless I understand your question wrong it works this way:

When you have a target area in view but you cannot distinguish the targets from the ground you point your nose there and put your SPI there by using the HUD or the TAD.

Then you switch one of your MFCDs to the MAV page, and look through the seeker. Maybe you even use the china hat to change the FOV and have a closer look. If there is a bright spot in your WHOT picture it may be a target, so you watch it a bit closer to be sure.

Then you memorize that spot, and you look outside again to see where it is. Then you attack it just like you found it by looking outside. There isn't much more to it.

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First of all, for a gun run or free fall munitions delivery you don't need a TGP neither a Maverick.

 

Second, the fact that A-10 pilot's sometimes refer to the Maverick as a poor man's TGP, or "looking through the straw", should give you an idea of the added value of the TGP over the Maverick's sensors.

 

As for what is practice and what isn't, you -probably- are assuming you always need some sort of optical device to acquire targets. I won't go into detail because it's getting late but just take my word for it that when following actual procedures and not going out alone in your jet to take out 15 targets in one flight, there are more situations where you won't need the TGP than where you would.

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Second, the fact that A-10 pilot's sometimes refer to the Maverick as a poor man's TGP, or "looking through the straw", should give you an idea of the added value of the TGP over the Maverick's sensors.

Not to be nitpicking but No doubt that the TGP is superior to using the Mav as a poor man's TGP but according the pilots you still get the the sodastraw effect out of the TGP; https://youtu.be/_L_TjXXx7eQ?t=496

 

http://www.sponauer.com/a-10litening/index.html

Your eyeball is still your best tool, and even with this pod, using it is still like looking through a soda straw.

 

 

Cheers

Hans

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476th are most welcome, as i can see from your 476th Payload Presets this technique is practicing by your squadron :smilewink:

 

And honestly the presets have nothing to do with using them as a TGP. Sometimes you don't need a TGP so you don't carry one.

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Here's a previous post on the topic. Remove the step about acquiring with TGP and just concentrate on the part about providing a stable platform for the MAV seeker head.

 

Thank you Garfieldo.. I'm humbled.

 

Although the MAV can be used like the TGP, it wasn't designed for that use. Ground stabilize in your TGP uses your EGI to find a point on the ground and maintain it. MAV only has a cone of view forward of the aircraft, and uses visual recognition rather than EGI.

 

If your MAV camera zooms away from the target quickly and you can't seem to slew where you want, that means your traversal velocity is too high. In other words, as the nose of your aircraft (and the mavs) moves in a line across the line of the target, your camera is unstable. The Mav doesn't have the stabilization abilities of the TGP. Try this, it works extremely well for me, and take note: you only have to manually track on the first Mav, because this one is coming off TGP slave. The next mavs just slew, autolock, rifle:

 

*13-15k ft, 10nm separation from target area

*TGP lock and SPI target, slave all SOI to SPI

*Line up with target

*neg 8-10 on the pitch and path autopilot

*throttles all the way back

*Let the aircraft stabilize

*Switch to Mav camera and TMS FWD Short for track (first target only)

*Fire, acquire, fire, acquire... etc.

 

The mav camera is much more stable. You'll still be more than 5nm away at 10k or higher and you'll have up to 6 mavs in the air.

 

NOW.. you don't have to use the TGP to get your target on. I've actually used the MAV head to seek a target when I didn't have a TGP loaded. Once again just give the MAV head camera a stable platform. Use the above method minus the TGP in step 2, and it will not be necessary to TMS FWD Short for track, since you aren't slaved to TGP. Don't forget to use the FOV feature of the MAV head to zoom in and out on the area to facilitate faster or slower slewing.

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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thank you very much for quick input, it was very helpful!

 

*neg 8-10 on the pitch and path autopilot

 

autopilot huh? i thought that using of autopilot during engagement is forbidden by real life procedures, is that correct?

MB: Asus ROG Strix Z390-E \ CPU: i9-9900K NZXT Kraken X52\ DDR4: 3000MHz G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32Gb RAM \

VID: MSI Nvidia RTX4070 12GB \ MON: Samsung ue49ks8000 49'', Lilliput 8'' x2

CNTRL: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog \ Saitek Combat Rudder pedals \ TrackIR 5 \ Thrustmaster MFD Cougar Pack

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Well.. we take liberties here where it's not our real ass being shot off I guess. :)

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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In the case of IAMs u need somthing to generate accurate coords, so there u could create a mk point with the seeker and then make it your spi.

 

as for JDAM delivery (for example GBU-38 ) the problem is accuracy: its really hard to create an accurate mark point even in "force correlate" mode when camera is relatively stable, it takes one extra pass over the target to mark it because you must be very close to mark it precisely. maybe it will be easier with practice :joystick:

MB: Asus ROG Strix Z390-E \ CPU: i9-9900K NZXT Kraken X52\ DDR4: 3000MHz G.SKILL Trident Z Royal 32Gb RAM \

VID: MSI Nvidia RTX4070 12GB \ MON: Samsung ue49ks8000 49'', Lilliput 8'' x2

CNTRL: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog \ Saitek Combat Rudder pedals \ TrackIR 5 \ Thrustmaster MFD Cougar Pack

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Or you could realize that using a Maverick to guide an IAM onto a target is rather silly when the Maverick exists specifically to do the same thing, and with a lot better stand off capability (at least in DCS that is). If you're rocking JDAMs there's not much likelihood of you not having a TGP.

 

I however would never suggest anyone idle the throttles of an A-10 when in a combat zone except when doing a very high angle/high altitude dive. Its much better in my opinion to learn to rifle mavericks off quickly in a short span than leave your jet in the energy poor scenario that comes from chopping throttles. This is much like using speed brakes for gun runs when real pilots can easily and often practice Two Target Strafes at well over 300 KIAS. A-10s don't trade speed for Alt very well and its already a slow and thrust poor platform. There are liberties to be taken in the sim world but this one is only viable when there is no threat to speak of which to be honest isn't very plausible (or fun for that matter).

 

If you need to slow your jet down to accomplish a task a real pilot could at full speed then you simply have another skill you need to refine. This isn't to say that using Mavs for target search isn't a good skill to acquire, but I would place comfort using the Mav seeker head well as much higher on the list of to dos.

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Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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I however would never suggest anyone idle the throttles of an A-10 when in a combat zone except when doing a very high angle/high altitude dive. Its much better in my opinion to learn to rifle mavericks off quickly in a short span than leave your jet in the energy poor scenario that comes from chopping throttles. This is much like using speed brakes for gun runs when real pilots can easily and often practice Two Target Strafes at well over 300 KIAS. A-10s don't trade speed for Alt very well and its already a slow and thrust poor platform. There are liberties to be taken in the sim world but this one is only viable when there is no threat to speak of which to be honest isn't very plausible (or fun for that matter).

 

Oh P*Funk.. I knew I could count on you.

 

The topic is about providing a stable platform for the Mav seeker head. If you're in a dive and pick up *too much* speed, then you no longer have a stable platform. The idea is to keep it around 300knts. I agree with the guideline of not decreasing speed and always maintaining energy.. but it's a guideline not a rule. I politely await your retort with no intention of adding 5 pages to this thread until we arrive at agreement. It's established that the hawg will sooner have an afterburner, my fine querulous friend. :)

It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm

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Oh P*Funk.. I knew I could count on you.

 

The topic is about providing a stable platform for the Mav seeker head. If you're in a dive and pick up *too much* speed, then you no longer have a stable platform. The idea is to keep it around 300knts. I agree with the guideline of not decreasing speed and always maintaining energy.. but it's a guideline not a rule. I politely await your retort with no intention of adding 5 pages to this thread until we arrive at agreement. It's established that the hawg will sooner have an afterburner, my fine querulous friend. :)

 

To what, know what he is talking about? If you trim properly in the dive you will still be stable.

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Oh P*Funk.. I knew I could count on you.

 

The topic is about providing a stable platform for the Mav seeker head. If you're in a dive and pick up *too much* speed, then you no longer have a stable platform. The idea is to keep it around 300knts. I agree with the guideline of not decreasing speed and always maintaining energy.. but it's a guideline not a rule. I politely await your retort with no intention of adding 5 pages to this thread until we arrive at agreement. It's established that the hawg will sooner have an afterburner, my fine querulous friend. :)

 

Stable platform schmable platform. :P

 

Besides, if you have the Path A/P on during this how is it not stable? I is confuzzled.

Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.

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I made a mission (on ED user submitted missions) that used the MAVS exclusively at night and not great weather. Basic routine patrol with a need to suddenly target a line of MLRS (scud) trucks. You needed to keep at least one MAV to use for sighting and using it to designate your targets before using gun or iron bombs. Using the MAV isn't easy as you need to be a ways out to give it more area to see in front of you (otherwise you'd have a hard time searing left/right), then zooming and watching for the trucks.

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