FeistyLemur Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) UPDATE 4: Devs have said they will add most if not all of the original controls back, See page 8 for answer. Thanks for listening and responding. ------------------------------ Well, Having looked "replaced" really meant replaced. A lot of the toggle switch positions I used and liked were simplified down to single press toggles with the old on off functionality completely removed. Extremely disappointing. ------------------------------ Update 1: Here is a list of commands, suggestions and general thoughts. Others perhaps will add notes to this. I have not fully gone over every change in 1.5 and I compiled this list based on looking at the controls as they stand in the release version. Most important - These commands absolutely require separate on off functionality for definitive use without having to look down or check to see if they have gotten out of sync. Weapon Mode - Air/Ground Weapon Mode - IR/Neutral/Sar Asp Mode - Missiles-rockets/Gun Asp Mode - Bombardment/Shooting Asp Main Mode - Manual/Auto Asp Mode - Giro/Missile Radar - Off/prep/on Low Altitude off/comp/on Locked Beam on/off Missiles - Rockets Launch on/off GS-23 gun on/off Emergency Afterburner on/off Engine Emergency Air Start on/off Anti Surge Doors auto/manual Flaps neutral/takeoff/landing Gear up/neuteral/down Gear handle fixator on/off SPRD(RATO) drop cover open/close release weapon cover open/close Emergency Missile - rocket launch cover opoen/close Less important - These commands are not absolutely vital but are nice to be able to add to a home cockpit or hotas set up and should also remain separate commands. Navigation Lights Off/min/med/max RSBN Mode Land/navigation/descend Landing Lights off/taxi/land pitot tube selector main/emergency nosegear brake off/on secure canopy on/off hermetize canopy on/off APU on/off Drag chute cover open/close Pipper on/off Fix Net on/off Not in game should be added - Some of these have already been added in 1.5, such as radio channel up down. Radio channel next/previous Weapon selector next/previous rsbn navigation next/previous prmg landing next/previous Dangerous altitude warning selector next/previous engine stop lock on/off <- this one would be especially nice to get working properly with the warthog throttle stop lock, the current toggle is unworkable for this without using target, and even then it's iffy. In general. If it has an off / on or multi position command structure now it should not be removed. The ideal setup that is inclusive to all types of users is what's done in FC3 for certain commands. example... -toggle up -toggle down -toggle up/down or... -pos1 -pos2 -pos3 -pos4 -toggle pos1 - pos4 with this methodology everyone is happy, no one is left out and it doesn't need to be a fight over casual vs realistic that some people seem to feel it needs to be. Also I would possibly select a layout by cockpit location like some of the other modules do. Example, in black shark you have a "stick" option or "left panel" option. Maybe consider laying it out in accordance to the zones of the cockpit described in the manual. I realize the goal here may be to clean up some of the extraneous commands. But if you're going to do that do it on non vital commands such as the various startup switches that are typically mouse clicked anyway twice per flight. Like for example the inverter and battery switches. ------------------------------ Update 2 A lot of people feel the need to make this a "screw the TM warthog users I like it" issue. It's not a TM warthog only issue, and that's very annoying and constantly derailing the topic, so if you're ready to post about how much you want toggles, stop it. You can have your toggles without the game being ruined in the process for everyone else. Definitive controls are not just for users of the TM warhog stick. I use separate commands on my KEYBOARD as well, not just my toggle switches on my stick. The reason is I want a simulation environment, and I want definitive keypresses which do not require looking down at the cockpit. If I press a key or flip a switch that controls my forced air restart while I'm being shot at, I want to know I'm turning it on and didn't just double tap the key and have to look down because my hand is shaking and a player controlled f15c is moving around to get behind me and I need to restart my engine. These commands are NOT just for TM warthog users, please don't post if you don't have something useful to post. Edited October 6, 2015 by FeistyLemur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakatak Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Just bind the same function to two buttons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeistyLemur Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 That won't work for the hotas warthog by default unless you use the target software, and the target software introduces lag on the switches and is otherwise undesirable. And even if you do, your controls will get out of sync. This is a huge step backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal0ne Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hey, no worries. I expected this kind of stuff and it will all get ironed out. That's why its called a BETA test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeistyLemur Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's not a bug, it's a feature. And if no one says anything it's not going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J7G Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 How do you know it's a feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeistyLemur Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Because it was listed very clearly as one in the release notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chann3l Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I really hope this gets changed. I run all my weapons controls on a custom toggle box and my toggles are kind of useless now. Having the same function bound twice doesn't work because it gets out of sync if I forget to leave a switch in the wrong position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decibel dB Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Because it was listed very clearly as one in the release notes. Where have you seen this? In the changelog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uther Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Where have you seen this? In the changelog? Yes, it's in the changelog.I was hoping it would be an option, not replacement. i5 4690k / MSI Gaming 5 / 2 x 8 GB Crucial Ballistix ram / Zotac AMP! 980Ti / 2 x 250 SSDs Flight Controls:Virpil VPC MoogoosT-50 / MFG Crosswinds / GVL Throttle / Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogey Jammer Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Me too… I'll buy : МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravoYankee4 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah, it was in the changelog. I also believed it should be an option. But now it seems this change was for the ones playing with XBOX-controllers... We who have more advanced controls or building cockpits it is a huge step back. Perhaps DCS-BIOS has to be used as a workaround... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadHabit Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) This is huge and needs a fix ASAP! I can not bind the Flaps up and down in my hotas. Also flaps key's are only for two positions... Mig has three. (retract, T/O, landing). Also Thrust is not working! I had my old config for mig-21 and paste it in to beta. Thrust was highlighted red and did not respond at all. I made a new one from scratch and was working only until i restart the game. Made a couple tests more and it is a bug. You make a new profile everything is working fine, you restart the game and boom no thrust for u.. Edited October 2, 2015 by BadHabit "These are not the bugs you are looking for..":pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] My YouTube channel SPECS -AMD FX8370 8 Core Processor 4.2 ghz -GIGABYTE 970A-UD3P -GTX 1050 TI Windforce 4g -16 GB RAM -Saitek X 52 -FaceNOIRtrack - 3 point clip Red Led Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Aww, that's bad. No one in LN uses hotas joystick with switches? Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KushViper Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I use the TM HOTAS also and didn't have any problem copying the controls from the old /user/savedgames config into the new openbeta 1.5 it all works the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd1312 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Flaps still seem to work for me with these commands: {combos={{key='JOY_BTN23'}},down=device_commands.Flaps45,up=device_commands.Flaps25,cockpit_device_id=devices.FLAPS,value_down=1.0,value_up=1.0,name='Flaps Landing (joystick)',category='Flight Controls'}, {combos={{key='JOY_BTN22'}},down=device_commands.Flaps0,up=device_commands.Flaps25,cockpit_device_id=devices.FLAPS,value_down=1.0,value_up=1.0,name='Flaps In (joystick)',category='Flight Controls'}, But nav lights for example just cycle through with each toggle now {combos={{key='JOY_BTN14'}},down=device_commands.NavLights,up=device_commands.NavLights,cockpit_device_id=devices.LIGHTS,value_down=0.99,value_up=0.0,name='Nav Lights WH Max',category='Lights'}, {combos={{key='JOY_BTN13'}},down=device_commands.NavLights,up=device_commands.NavLights,cockpit_device_id=devices.LIGHTS,value_down=0.33,value_up=0.0,name='Nav Lights WH Min',category='Lights'}, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harle Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What was the point in REPLACING? Why not just ADD those toggles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What was the point in REPLACING? Why not just ADD those toggles? +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeistyLemur Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Why Leatherneck do you want to go from being one of the premier realism sims for DCS to being one where you can't use a hotas setup properly or even bind all three flaps positions and land your plane properly? I don't understand this move. Have a sim controls and a game controls mode like other modules. Please don't ruin my favorite module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintifaxl Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Looks like the G940 and X-52 (which have no toggle switches) will work better now, than the Warthog or the Rhino. Please LN, include the old commands again. Windows 10 64bit, Intel i9-9900@5Ghz, 32 Gig RAM, MSI RTX 3080 TI, 2 TB SSD, 43" 2160p@1440p monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grunf Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yes, it's in the changelog.I was hoping it would be an option, not replacement. Yeah me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra847 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's a Beta release, guys. If you have some time; make a list of changes you'd like to see for your HOTAS setup. Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal0ne Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's a Beta release, guys. If you have some time; make a list of changes you'd like to see for your HOTAS setup. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frisco1522 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's a Beta release, guys. If you have some time; make a list of changes you'd like to see for your HOTAS setup. Dat guy speaks the truth... +1 Frisco1522 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's a Beta release, guys. If you have some time; make a list of changes you'd like to see for your HOTAS setup. Item 1. Restore all the controls that were removed. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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