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Improved Spotting


gavagai

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I respectfully disagree. Definitely not on pair with other flight sims at the moment, that much is true. But there are more than plenty of them. Numbers will rise exponentially once Normandy map is out.

Ive never seen any flight sim with more than just a few players online, or the only ones I have are RoF, BoS, CoD and DCS. In each case there are never enough players online to fill more than one server. So the point here is that a multitude of server options is only viable for games with thousands of players online. Then everyone can have their choice of settings. But in CFS you'll need to choose the only populated server to play on and go along with whatever settings it's running. And usually what I see is the popular servers are the "full real" type without icons, external views or game aids etc. especially in DCS.

 

That's the only real issue with MV. I'd like to see it not become another server side setting that can't be supported or ends up dividing an already small player base. If the effect is kept to a minimal benefit I don't think anyone should mind it being used on the "full real" type servers.

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Ive never seen any flight sim with more than just a few players online, or the only ones I have are RoF, BoS, CoD and DCS. In each case there are never enough players online to fill more than one server.

 

Please define "a few" for me. Two or three Sundays ago, ATAG had 100 pilots (full), and SoW had 50+. Both running so called "full switch" settings. And that is just CloD. With other available servers having "a few" pilots. ;)

 

Perhaps you are missing peek hours.

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Please define "a few" for me. Two or three Sundays ago, ATAG had 100 pilots (full), and SoW had 50+. Both running so called "full switch" settings. And that is just CloD. With other available servers having "a few" pilots. ;)

 

Perhaps you are missing peek hours.

Right. But they're all on one or two servers. That's my point. There aren't enough people to fill multiple servers each with different settings. And yes that's only at some peak hour.

My defining "a few" means exactly that.

And yes, also both of those are "full switch" meaning the type that doesn't offer game aids.


Edited by SharpeXB

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Please define "a few" for me. Two or three Sundays ago, ATAG had 100 pilots (full), and SoW had 50+. Both running so called "full switch" settings. And that is just CloD. With other available servers having "a few" pilots. ;)

 

Perhaps you are missing peek hours.

You do realise that those "full real" settings have the additional helps built in? I can spot fighter planes from 5 km in CloD on my 1080p monitor. In DCS without "aids" the 109 is hard to see at more than 1km.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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You do realise that those "full real" settings have the additional helps built in? I can spot fighter planes from 5 km in CloD on my 1080p monitor. In DCS without "aids" the 109 is hard to see at more than 1km.

 

So, what is more realistic then, being able to see on a clear day in good visibility a WWII fighter at 5 km or hard to see at 1 km?

 

What is this "aids" thing then? Do not both simulators have zoom in and out and other visual aid features? I find the zoom in DCS to be much easier than CloD, because in DCS it actually does bring things into view that you otherwise can't see.

 

For me, I think BoS has it just about right. Best depiction of aircraft air to air visibility goes to BoS IMHO.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

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You do realise that those "full real" settings have the additional helps built in? I can spot fighter planes from 5 km in CloD on my 1080p monitor. In DCS without "aids" the 109 is hard to see at more than 1km.

In DCS I can clearly see my A-10 wingman 6 miles (9km) away when zoomed out. In a situation of good contrast against the sky.

I haven't tried the TF mod but vanilla CoD was the only sim I had trouble spotting in because it lacked antialiasing and had some other LoD problem. I think TF fixed that though. But the original CoD was really awful in that regard. That's the only sim I couldn't even play because of this issue. DCS and RoF/BoS are all really good.

I feel sometimes DCS gets into situations of less contrast and that's what makes it tough. Sometimes. Other times it's very good. I have not tried the 1.5 Beta yet.

 

Here's a shot from v1.2 so of course without the MV. It's on all High settings. I can easily see all these other aircraft, very well defined. And yes this is UHD but if you look at it on a 1080p screen you're scaling it down by default. Is don't see any trouble spotting things here.

I'm not really up for trying the beta but like most people eager to see if this even improves over 1.2.

image.thumb.jpeg.5ae75c791ea1e7f2eafc140b5333b1de.jpeg


Edited by SharpeXB

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Right. But they're all on one or two servers. That's my point. There aren't enough people to fill multiple servers each with different settings. And yes that's only at some peak hour.

My defining "a few" means exactly that.

And yes, also both of those are "full switch" meaning the type that doesn't offer game aids.

 

Definitions are needed. How many players define a full server? Back in '46 days it was ~30. 150 could fill 5 servers. Besides, this is a moot arguments since quick action / dogfight servers are just one flavor of MP game play. The rest being dedicated historical missions and campaigns like SEOW where the real MP fun is.

 

You do realise that those "full real" settings have the additional helps built in? I can spot fighter planes from 5 km in CloD on my 1080p monitor. In DCS without "aids" the 109 is hard to see at more than 1km.

 

Point being? I am aware of the fixes TF did to the game.

 

So, what is more realistic then, being able to see on a clear day in good visibility a WWII fighter at 5 km or hard to see at 1 km?

 

That. :thumbup:

 

For me, I think BoS has it just about right. Best depiction of aircraft air to air visibility goes to BoS IMHO.

 

Seconded. BoS renders a 2 engined plane at about 9.5 km, and single engined at just under 7km. That isn't saying it is easy to spot them at those ranges. Quite the contrary.

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Definitions are needed. How many players define a full server? Back in '46 days it was ~30.

Right. But IMO 30-150 is not a lot of people. I'll bet ARMA or something like Battlefield 4 has 800,000 people online on dozens of full servers. That's the difference.


Edited by SharpeXB

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And very bad things come from this if dev's wont be smart enough http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2505145&postcount=42 :helpsmilie:

Whoops! :D

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In DCS I can clearly see my A-10 wingman 6 miles (9km) away when zoomed out. In a situation of good contrast against the sky.

I haven't tried the TF mod but vanilla CoD was the only sim I had trouble spotting in because it lacked antialiasing and had some other LoD problem. I think TF fixed that though. But the original CoD was really awful in that regard. That's the only sim I couldn't even play because of this issue. DCS and RoF/BoS are all really good.

I feel sometimes DCS gets into situations of less contrast and that's what makes it tough. Sometimes. Other times it's very good. I have not tried the 1.5 Beta yet.

 

Here's a shot from v1.2 so of course without the MV. It's on all High settings. I can easily see all these other aircraft, very well defined. And yes this is UHD but if you look at it on a 1080p screen you're scaling it down by default. Is don't see any trouble spotting things here.

I'm not really up for trying the beta but like most people eager to see if this even improves over 1.2.

A-10 is not WW2 plane in DCS. They seem to be radically different when comes to spotting. With zoom I could spot MiG29 from 5km no problem in DCS, but with WW2 planes even at 1km it was hard.

 

Good that ED did the right thing. The pole that was conducted some time ago spoke for itself.

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My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

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A-10 is not WW2 plane in DCS. They seem to be radically different when comes to spotting. With zoom I could spot MiG29 from 5km no problem in DCS, but with WW2 planes even at 1km it was hard.

 

Good that ED did the right thing. The pole that was conducted some time ago spoke for itself.

If you see my screenshot above, I don't have any trouble making out those WWII planes.

It's actually Flaming Cliffs which presents the most challenge since those planes can shoot at you from much farther away. That's where I feel the need for a little help. But not in WWII.

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If you see my screenshot above, I don't have any trouble making out those WWII planes.

It's actually Flaming Cliffs which presents the most challenge since those planes can shoot at you from much farther away. That's where I feel the need for a little help. But not in WWII.

 

Your screen shot tells half the story. Rotate the plane at a different angle, point it towards you, paint it against the ground with a forest for instance - there were rendering instances in 1.2 that made a nearby plane almost invisible.

 

Plus, last I checked A-10 is larger than smaller propeller driven A/C we have in-game. And you're running 4K. :)

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WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature

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there were rendering instances in 1.2 that made a nearby plane almost invisible.

 

Plus, last I checked A-10 is larger than smaller propeller driven A/C we have in-game. And you're running 4K. :)

Right. I think there are certain rendering conditions of less contrast that makes seeing stuff difficult. That shot is a bright high contrast view. Hopefully 1.5 is a boost in that regard as well.

 

4K is nice but it doesn't make anything larger or provide more contrast. Honestly I thought it would be more help at spotting than it is.

If you look at that image fit to a 1080p screen. You're seeing it in 1080p. There's no way to show what the 4K image looks like without the screen. So it's hard to show the difference. I have another monitor that's 1050x1680 and if I view the image on that then much of the information is gone. You can make out dark shapes where the planes are, i.e. "spot" them. But in 4K you can see the markings on the closer planes and even ID the ones far off.


Edited by SharpeXB

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From my experience with 4k in CloD and DCS: 4k does not improve spotting itself. In cases where far contacts are rendered as single pixels, it makes spotting actually harder (CloD primarily but this applies to all small distant objects to a certain degree). 4k greatly improves identification though as details about the models become pronounced earlier thanks to more pixels being available on smaller objects. So in my experience: Spotting becomes somewhat harder, identification becomes alot quicker though. This goes double in DCS since I prob have to zoom around alot less to get a positive identification on a target and I can remain in a zoomed out view.

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Right. I think there are certain rendering conditions of less contrast that makes seeing stuff difficult. That shot is a bright high contrast view. Hopefully 1.5 is a boost in that regard as well.

 

4K is nice but it doesn't make anything larger or provide more contrast. Honestly I thought it would be more help at spotting than it is.

If you look at that image fit to a 1080p screen. You're seeing it in 1080p. There's no way to show what the 4K image looks like without the screen. So it's hard to show the difference. I have another monitor that's 1050x1680 and if I view the image on that then much of the information is gone. You can make out dark shapes where the planes are, i.e. "spot" them. But in 4K you can see the markings on the closer planes and even ID the ones far off.

 

If the imagine you posted is what most of us saw there wouldn't be much complaining. Previously I could be following someone and they would just disappear into the terrain even from just several hundred yards. I'm not really sure with 1.5 the spotting has greatly improved in most areas either. The soft shapes make it very hard to identify targets at certain distances that were easier before. I also noticed a glow around targets with clouds as backgrounds that seemed incorrect. I'd just like a system that was reasonable to spot other craft with the sky as a background and not impossible to track engaged targets against the ground at distances of less than 2km.

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@ Crummp...

 

I understand where you're coming from, but the solution to solve a "problem" some had was delivered, it is an elegant solution albeit (remembering the words which came with the announcement of the solution: We don't understand why anyone would want to see targets outside of real world visual range - but if that's what floats your boat, now you will be able to".

 

Forcing the solution On or Off in servers is a natural progression... the also natural response to that will be "if ya don't like (on or off) don't fly on that server. It'll end up being realistic servers and air quake with visibility icons set to large servers

 

I think you are right. :thumbup:

Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize:

 

1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250

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If the imagine you posted is what most of us saw there wouldn't be much complaining. Previously I could be following someone and they would just disappear into the terrain even from just several hundred yards. I'm not really sure with 1.5 the spotting has greatly improved in most areas either. The soft shapes make it very hard to identify targets at certain distances that were easier before. I also noticed a glow around targets with clouds as backgrounds that seemed incorrect. I'd just like a system that was reasonable to spot other craft with the sky as a background and not impossible to track engaged targets against the ground at distances of less than 2km.

The screenshot was made in 3840x2160 and like every screenshot is actually worse than what I see live on the screen since its compressed as a jpeg. It will be whatever resolution your screen is when looking at it. I'm running on all High settings with 2x AA and HDR on Warm. On Nvidia CP all default. I've never seen a DCS plane vanish at just a few hundred yards. I lose track of targets all the time but that just my own doing.

One thing I think makes DCS 1.2 difficult is that it's very demanding to run on higher settings. If 1.5 lets it run better when set higher that must help.

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One thing I think makes DCS 1.2 difficult is that it's very demanding to run on higher settings. If 1.5 lets it run better when set higher that must help.

 

I presume you are referring to v1.2 @ 4K resolution? I have no problem running v1.2 everything on high with 30-40 FPS with my rig.

P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5

WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature

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Don't strip it away!! Please!!

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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I presume you are referring to v1.2 @ 4K resolution? I have no problem running v1.2 everything on high with 30-40 FPS with my rig.

Even at 1080p it's not the easiest game to run. Mostly it's limited by the CPU. Also I think the higher fps you get the clearer things are. At a good 60 fps these flight sims get really smooth and sharp. That's what's tough to get, I think I needed a GTX 780 to run 1080p that well and in CPU limited scenes even the strongest CPU gets crushed. If there's a setting to turn down, Visibility Rage helps a lot and only affects distant terrain. For spotting, HDR and antialiasing are probably the ones to keep high.

The other setting that works good in Nvidia CP is Adaptive Vsync which smooths out lower frame rates really well. The higher levels of antialiasing are tough to run too, I could see improvement (at 1080p) up to 8q x.


Edited by SharpeXB

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