[NO BUG]New Smoke Plumes - I love them .... but ..... not for rockets.

[Flagrum]

Everyone is excited about the new visual appereance of the smoke plumes that missiles produce. That includes me - they ARE really stunning. But ... maybe it is just me being used to the old visuals ... but I somehow dislike them for unguided rockets like S-5 or S-8 ... especially when looked at from the cockpit.

 

The plumes are now dense and the smoke is kept together untill it eventually dissolves in the air whereas before it was a thin, spread out ... "mist".

 

Is this new look more realistic, or was the old one better?

 

(disclaimer: I know that everything is probably WIP - so this is not a complaint/bug report (yet), but rather my attempt to gain some better understanding on the subject. ;o)

[WinterH]

From what I have seen in videos of various aircraft firing rockets, outside or cockpit footage alike, new ones seem more realistic to me. Those are pretty smokey indeed.

[Dappman]

They look perfect in game to me.

 

[kripzoo]

I agree with OP.

 

The new flame and smoke effects for these small unguided rocket's are a bit too "Hollywood".

Everything else in 1.5 is just spot on, like the smoke trail's, contrails, flares, etc...

 

I think in 1.2.6, the effects for these rockets were more real like, what we see in the videos.

They should make the fire effect little smaller and less visible in bright day light.

But otherwise keep up the good work ED! :thumbup:

[Slazi]

I quite like them as I can track my rockets now. Before I would only see the impact.

 

I'll leave it for others to decide the realism.

[kripzoo]

I quite like them as I can track my rockets now. Before I would only see the impact.

 

I'll leave it for others to decide the realism.

 

Well you can track these small rockets just for half a second, when the propellant is burning and after that they are gone out of your sight's :)

Remember we are talking about these smallish unguided rockets (s-8, s-5)

Edited October 4, 2015 by kripzoo

[Exorcet]

I feel the same. Smoke looks great on missiles, but a bit thick for rockets.

 

EDIT

 

It may vary between rockets though, I see little smoke in A-10 videos, but here with Su-25:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyy1OCApc0w

 

See 1:10

 

 

Almost invisible A-10 rocket trail:

 

 

see 2:40

Edited October 4, 2015 by Exorcet

[eurofor]

I haven't researched this much but here are a few examples of rocket motors that clearly only burn while inside the launcher.

 

 

 

[vicx]

Cmon guys ... you can't compare appearance of rocket smoke from the side with rocket smoke viewed from collinear perspective (from the cockpit). From the side smoke could look very light almost invisible but cumulative smoke trail viewed from behind a launched rocket will look like a cloud. And then when the smoke catches the light ... different again.

 

*rude comment cut* ... show pictures of "like for like" to make your case.

 

Eurofor the rockets are still smoking even when not providing thrust?

Edited October 5, 2015 by vicx
more polite

[SUI - Mustang]

Don't be lazy ... show pictures of "like for like" to make your case.

 

True. This would be from cockpit:

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=053_1333796153

 

Looks realistic enough now in 1.5 for me.

[eurofor]

Cmon guys ... you can't compare appearance of rocket smoke from the side with rocket smoke viewed from collinear perspective (from the cockpit).

 

From the side smoke could look very light almost invisible but cumulative smoke trail viewed from behind a launched rocket will look like a cloud. And then when the smoke catches the light ... different again.

 

Don't be lazy ... show pictures of "like for like" to make your case.

 

Then don't be lazy and read the text preceding the images before you comment. The only thing I'm referencing in those images is the rocket motors burn duration.

[vicx]

Then don't be lazy and read the text preceding the images before you comment

 

OK Eurofor. My bad.

 

I just watched a whole lot of youtube videos of Russian aircraft firing rockets before I posted that, and now I have NO IDEA what is realistic looking.

 

The more video and photos I look at the less clear it is. I was trying to make that point but I unfairly picked on your post.

[eurofor]

OK Eurofor. My bad.

 

I just watched a whole lot of youtube videos of Russian aircraft firing rockets before I posted that, and now I have NO IDEA what is realistic looking.

 

The more video and photos I look at the less clear it is. I was trying to make that point but I unfairly picked on your post.

 

No problem. I don't know either. My thought was simply that it could be the rocket motor burning brightly rather than the smoke itself that is making it look strange. I can't remember seeing any footage where S-5/S-8 rockets are burning so brightly/visibly after leaving the launcher.

 

https://youtu.be/ckawJqbCOdw?t=10s

[seikdel]

No problem. I don't know either. My thought was simply that it could be the rocket motor burning brightly rather than the smoke itself that is making it look strange. I can't remember seeing any footage where S-5/S-8 rockets are burning so brightly/visibly after leaving the launcher.

 

https://youtu.be/ckawJqbCOdw?t=10s

On an unrelated note, you can totally see the IR jammer jamming away in this video! Gotta love how well parts of the spectrum get picked up by cameras =)

[kripzoo]

True. This would be from cockpit:

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=053_1333796153

 

Looks realistic enough now in 1.5 for me.

 

Again, we are talking these smaller rockets s-8 and s-5...

 

In that video they are shooting the bigger caliber rockets like s-25 and s-24.

These rockets smoke plumes are indeed realistic in 1.5.

[Witchking]

Please don't change rocket smoke fx. They are awesome. The behaviour, the visibility is amazing.

[vicx]

Well I have come around to the idea that the smoke effect is a bit overdone.

 

Some rockets will have this BIG smoke but many of them just shouldn't. Once you start firing all the different types and also looking with the external camera you can make up your own mind. The smoke on the Combined Arms ATGMs. They are also too much in my opinion.

 

I understand that all the visual effects in 1.5 BETA are very far from final and that ED focuses on the larger issues - this is as it should be.

[Dappman]

I found a video I wanted to post here showing real smoke from S-8s but couldn't find before.

 

 

1:18. I think that settles that.

[BravoYankee4]

I suppose there are different kind of smoke depending of the kind of propellant in the rockets. In this clip with Swedish Viggens (1:50) the smoke from the rockets is quite different (darker, thicker).

 

 

[kripzoo]

 

There is also a problem with the rockets/missile exhaust flames lighting.

 

By looking this screenshot we see that the "exhaust fire" (or what is called?)

lights up too much the smoke trail behind the missile, in clear daylight.

I hope that those "flames" are WIP, because they look nothing like in RL photos/videos..

Edited November 6, 2015 by kripzoo

[kripzoo]

Every photo i look from internet of s-8 / s-5 shooting, the exhaust flame is only visible when the rocket leaves from the pod.

While in DCS these small rockets make same bright flame like the agm-65 above.

[Nerd1000]

I suppose there are different kind of smoke depending of the kind of propellant in the rockets. In this clip with Swedish Viggens (1:50) the smoke from the rockets is quite different (darker, thicker).

 

 

 

Rocket exhaust plumes vary based on the fuel, the altitude, and the temperature to some degree. Most people expect a bright yellow flame and white smoke, like the space shuttle SRB:

 

 

This comes from a specific family of solid fuel known as Composite Propellants- the white smoke is aluminum oxide, present because aluminium is used as fuel in this kind of motor. Composite fuels are inexpensive and provide good performance, so they were popular for many years even in millitary applications.

 

One might compare the Zuni, seen here producing almost no smoke at all:

 

This is a Double base engine, using some combination of Nitrocellulose, Nitroglycerine and other Nitro-compounds, as might be used in guns, only formulated for much slower burn times. You might get black smoke from these engines if the the oxidizer/fuel ratio of the propellant is fuel rich, causing carbon soot to form in the exhaust (I suspect low temperatures also promote black smoke formation). Finally, let's have a look at Titan II.

 

As you can see, the exhaust flame itself is almost transparent, and there is no smoke (all that white stuff is steam from the flame damping system in the silo). The Titan II is a different beast from the previously discussed engines- it uses liquid fuel and oxidiser, in this case dinitrogen tetroxide as oxidiser and aerozine 50 (a 50/50 mix of hydrazine and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine) as fuel. Depending on the conditions the flame could look a bit yellow thanks to the carbon in the dimethylhydrazine.

 

As the altitude rises, the exhaust plume will grow wider and more diffuse. The flames in DCS 1.5 look to me like they were intended to resemble a composite propellant engine operating at altitude.

[Witchking]

Wonderful answer. Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

 

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