Downloading up-to-date nVidia drivers will soon require GeForce experience

[SharpeXB]

I will take manual driver updates and my ability to set all my own individual graphics settings any day

And you still can too. I don't personally use many of those features in GFE either.

But somebody new to gaming will be completely lost trying to understand that stuff. You have to go remember that at one time you were lost as well. Only gamers would complain about something as useful as automatic updates.

 

Remember how games used to come only on a CD or DVD. You had to actually keep it in the machine to run the game. Patches didn't happen automatically like all other software in the world did, you had to go find them manually. Steam changed that. Thankfully.

 

Same with the silly drivers for the graphics card. I remember having to go actually find those for ATI just a few years ago. I didn't even know what a driver was let alone that it needs updating.

 

There's nothing I miss about that era.

Edited October 20, 2015 by SharpeXB

[dburne]

And you still can too. I don't personally use many of those features in GFE either.

But somebody new to gaming will be completely lost trying to understand that stuff. You have to go remember that at one time you were lost as well. Only gamers would complain about something as useful as automatic updates.

 

That is not the issue being discussed. GFE is there now available to anyone that would prefer to use it. The issue is Nvidia removing the driver updates being allowed as they are now unless done through GFE...

[kobac]

But in the GeForce Experience list of supported games still no DCS.

[NeilWillis]

Haha, this is developing in a fun, albeit unintended direction. ;)

 

 

 

Now hold on! VW would *never* risk their reputation by using bad business practices!

 

Uh... hold on... okay, yeah, actually they would.

 

But I'm sure you have good reason to believe nVidia would *never* risk their reputation by using bad business practices because... uh... well because! :lol:

 

When did I say never?

 

I just speak as I find, and until proven otherwise, I don't treat Nvidia with paranoia or fear. I respect them as market leaders in their chosen field, with a good track record. What else do we have to judge from than that?

 

How many of us have purchased goods online? I have bad news for you if you have, you have already placed your trust in every single one of those vendors! Oh and of course that is ALL of us, even the foil heads!!!

[doveman]

I don't know whether GFE actually does a good job of configuring settings automatically but it is quite ridiculous that users have to faff about manually changing settings and in many cases editing config files, testing the game each time they change the settings, to try and get games running optimally on their systems. Even then users have no idea if there's going to be parts of the game that will have more objects, enemies, etc that will cause the fps to drop.

 

Games can easily detect what hardware you have and should be able to auto-configure to run optimally. Maybe offer a couple of choices like "Constant 30fps with maximum detail" if that's all the hardware can manage (maximum meaning the best settings to produce the highest quality the specific hardware can maintain 30fps at, not all settings on max) and "Around 60fps but may drop, with reduced detail", where the settings are configured to give the best detail possible whilst maintaining 60fps most of the time.

[Yurgon]

When did I say never?

 

I just speak as I find, and until proven otherwise, I don't treat Nvidia with paranoia or fear. I respect them as market leaders in their chosen field, with a good track record. What else do we have to judge from than that?

 

Let me assume that you don't follow tech news then. :smilewink:

 

Well, there this comes to my mind: http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-faces-false-advertising-lawsuit-over-gtx-970-specs/

 

(In a way, this is just like the VW example. Yes, GTX 970/VW Diesel cars work fine. They just don't work quite as advertised if you take a closer look.)

 

How many of us have purchased goods online? I have bad news for you if you have, you have already placed your trust in every single one of those vendors! Oh and of course that is ALL of us, even the foil heads!!!

 

I don't usually tell people to do this because it means we're about to go in circles, but since you won't let go of this tinfoil hat nonsense: Read the thread. Again. From beginning to end. You are imagining things that were not written and judge other's posts by your rather creative interpretation. At the very least, don't force me to go into that again by stating more stuff that you think was said but actually wasn't, would you?

 

I mean, it's so simple: I don't want to run GeForce Experience, but I would like to reserve the right to get regular driver updates just like it is now. nVidia said they were going to change that by making GeForce Experience a mandatory installation for regular driver updates, and I disagree with that decision. You (and others) weren't able to convince me to accept nVidia's decision. Everything else (like how easy it is to disable GeForce Experience) is besides the point. :noexpression:

Edited October 20, 2015 by Yurgon
Typo

[SharpeXB]

That is not the issue being discussed. GFE is there now available to anyone that would prefer to use it. The issue is Nvidia removing the driver updates being allowed as they are now unless done through GFE...

I'll guess that 99.9% of their customers use GFE to get driver updates.

And since there's completely no down side to using GFE there's no reason to have this done any other way. Unless Nvidia just wanted to make the process more difficult to appeal to customers who like things being more difficult.

[Toxe]

Well, the real problem here is that every modern game needs its own bloody driver. Without this nonsense we wouldn't even have a tool like GFE.

 

And no matter if GFE sucks or not (I think it does): What are the alternatives? If nothing changes the market share of AMD will be nonexistent soon. From a technical standpoint I'd say Nvidia is still the best option so I guess we will have to find some way to make the best out of this situation.

[NineLine]

I totally know where most of you are coming from, seems like every company needs to install some sort of software addon to help keep their items up to date (or try and sneak other crap on my puter), many of them are just a pain in the butt, but as someone stated already, the days of trying to figure out what driver you need, and messing stuff up getting the wrong one, heck GFE make life easier in my mind, its certainly not as bad as somethings out there.. I use most aspects of it, just now getting into shadowplay, and will be trying the streaming out as well.

 

So I can appreciate wanting to have an opt out option, I was an early adopter of GFE, it had a pretty bumpy start, but its pretty ok now... Guess coming from the boot disk era, stuff like this makes me happy ;)

[dburne]

I prefer to run my system lean. The only thing I ever install in my driver updates is the actual driver, and PhysX. None of that other stuff, I have no need for it. I tweak my system to get the best performance I can get for the games I run. And I do, the games I run perform great for me.

 

Certainly GFE has it's place and I can see where many, that perhaps do not have the know how or desire to fiddle, or just like the convenience would make good use of it. I have no use for it, and do not need or want the additional software.

 

Nvidia has been offering it as an option for some time now, and imho that is fine and where they should leave it. Seems to have been a fairly successful formula. At least they will still offer available driver updates outside of GFE, albeit not as often. Maybe they will get enough blow back , they will rethink what they are doing with this.

[NineLine]

As much as I dont think it has a large impact on a system, I can totally support that people should be given a choice...

[SharpeXB]

And all those complaints on the Nvidia forum are just wrong.

 

Can't do a clean re install with GFE? Of course you can. Just go to control panel and uninstall all your drivers. Also when they move to GFE as the only portal to update I'm sure they'll add that functionality within the app.

 

Shadowplay performance hit? You can switch it off in GFE. I don't know if there really is a hit either but just switch it off.

 

Don't want to run GFE? Disable it in your startup. Problem solved. I don't imagine that the machine which can run DCSW is going to be gimped by GFE in the background. But just disable it if you want.

 

Game optimizations aren't forced on you.

 

Driver updates aren't forced. You can skip them or install whenever you want to.

Edited October 20, 2015 by SharpeXB

[sobek]

Guess coming from the boot disk era, stuff like this makes me happy ;)

 

Speak for yourself.

 

If anything, this bloatware should be opt-in, not the other way around. I was thinking about getting a 970 myself as a follow up to my aging 7870, simply because it is such a competitive piece of hardware ATM, but i won't be a part of such nonsense.

[NineLine]

Speak for yourself.

 

If anything, this bloatware should be opt-in, not the other way around. I was thinking about getting a 970 myself as a follow up to my aging 7870, simply because it is such a competitive piece of hardware ATM, but i won't be a part of such nonsense.

 

Guess your definition of bloat differs from mine ;) I hardly think my i7 even knows its running... certain my 16Gigs of RAM isnt breaking a sweat over it just yet... point is, this isnt 1990... our puters arent starving for resources... if this program is bringing your puter to its knees, time to pack up the 386 :)

[cichlidfan]

Windows is full of unnecessary stuff, so is my android phone as are all of my televisions. In general, I find that most aspects of life are filled with little inefficiencies that could be eliminated.

 

It is easier not to sweat the small stuff. :)

[NineLine]

Windows is full of unnecessary stuff, so is my android phone as are all of my televisions. In general, I find that most aspects of life are filled with little inefficiencies that could be eliminated.

 

It is easier not to sweat the small stuff. :)

 

Amen ;)

[Necroscope]

Windows is full of unnecessary stuff, so is my android phone as are all of my televisions. In general, I find that most aspects of life are filled with little inefficiencies that could be eliminated.

 

It is easier not to sweat the small stuff. :)

 

I think it's better to say "most aspects of life are filled with little inefficiencies that should be eliminated. But usually you can't."

[cichlidfan]

I think it's better to say "most aspects of life are filled with little inefficiencies that should be eliminated. But usually you can't."

 

I can't disagree with that. However, the Nvidia thing may fall under the can't category. They can, and will, do what they want, regarding driver updates, so if I want to use their hardware I have to be willing to live with their system (whether I agree with it or not).

[sobek]

Windows is full of unnecessary stuff, so is my android phone as are all of my televisions. In general, I find that most aspects of life are filled with little inefficiencies that could be eliminated.

 

It is easier not to sweat the small stuff. :)

 

You're right, that's why i won't support it. :)

 

And you are making this more of a problem than it really is. It is not that hard to stay away from all this BS if you want to. I've resorted to use Windows exclusively for Gaming and Audio, the rest i can do on Linux. If i had a Smartphone, i'd jailbreak it and use a clean distro and services that communicate with my own server, not Google. You can set that up out of the box in maybe a few hours, much less if you've done it before.

 

I get the convenience aspect, i really do. I just think that staying in control of what data i produce as much as possible within the constraints of a few hours of work is worth it. More people should, for reasons that can not be discussed on these boards. ;)

 

Convenience is not a good substitute for freedom.

[Yurgon]

I get the convenience aspect, i really do. I just think that staying in control of what data i produce as much as possible within the constraints of a few hours of work is worth it. More people should, for reasons that can not be discussed on these boards. ;)

 

I couldn't agree more. :thumbup:

 

(Yeah, I've been thinking about installing CM on my Samsung tablet ever since I got it. One of these days I'm sure I'll finally do it. And then maybe even on the Android phone. Damn you, convenience! :music_whistling:)

[NineLine]

You're right, that's why i won't support it. :)

 

And you are making this more of a problem than it really is. It is not that hard to stay away from all this BS if you want to. I've resorted to use Windows exclusively for Gaming and Audio, the rest i can do on Linux. If i had a Smartphone, i'd jailbreak it and use a clean distro and services that communicate with my own server, not Google. You can set that up out of the box in maybe a few hours, much less if you've done it before.

 

I get the convenience aspect, i really do. I just think that staying in control of what data i produce as much as possible within the constraints of a few hours of work is worth it. More people should, for reasons that can not be discussed on these boards. ;)

 

Convenience is not a good substitute for freedom.

 

See bolded text... perhaps we aren't sure who is making this a bigger problem then it really is ;)

 

What freedom is being snatched away by this simple little program, which is really no more than a fancy control panel...

[SharpeXB]

So is there a real actual problem with GFE?

Or just imaginary problems.

I have enough real PC troubles all the time.

So I don't need to invent any more.

[NineLine]

So is there a real actual problem with GFE?

Or just imaginary problems.

I have enough real PC troubles all the time.

So I don't need to invent any more.

 

I think its purely opinion at this point, some people are put off by it, some arent... its simple.

[dburne]

So is there a real actual problem with GFE?

Or just imaginary problems.

I have enough real PC troubles all the time.

So I don't need to invent any more.

 

1 I don't know if there is a problem with the program itself, and don't care to know. It is there for anyone that wants to use it, and that is a good thing. The problem is, Nvidia wanting to force users to use it.

 

2: Not me, I built my system a couple of years ago and have not had a moments problem with it. Runs rock solid for me at 4.5 ghz day in and out. Maybe one thing that helps in my case is not installing unnecessary software/bloatware. I adjust all my games graphics settings both within the game and also in the Nvidia control panel. Don't need a program to suggest how I should run them.

 

3: Choice is a good thing. GeForce Experience is there now for those that choose to use it. I choose not to use it, and would prefer having the most recent driver updates available to me should I choose to install them, without having to have GFE installed to get them.

 

To be clear, I have nothing whatsoever against GFE and I am sure it is a good thing for those that like it and use it. I don't like Nvidia trying to force it down our throats by making it a requirement to get access to the latest drivers. There is a reason they are doing that, and it ain't all just for the benefit of the users.

[Yurgon]

What freedom is being snatched away by this simple little program, which is really no more than a fancy control panel...

 

We're talking about graphics cards drivers for crying out loud.

 

A piece of software that lets other pieces of software access a piece of hardware that, otherwise, those other pieces of software wouldn't know how to use (that was simple and understandable, right? :lol:).

 

Why on earth are people so adamant that any additional software that scans for games and allows taking videos and performs convenience tasks should be bundled with the driver? It's simply bloat. It's not needed for the driver, nor is it needed for the OS or any application that uses the hardware.

 

It's a convenience tool, and while it may be the nicest convenience tool on the planet (though many people who ran it made statements to the contrary), it's still nothing more than an additional tool (see how I snuck in the word "additional"? ;)).

 

And why should it transfer any data to the vendor? So they can see which programs run at what performance so they can prioritize for what games they should optimize their drivers? Wouldn't it be sufficient to look at sales figures and Play-along videos to find out which games are played more often than others (hint: DCS doesn't have as many players as GTA V. Hah, without GFE nVidia wouldn't have been able to figure that out, or would they?).

 

Okay, so nVidia want usage data, and I'm fine with that - as long as it's opt-in. Without my express consent, I simply don't want any tool to transmit data. For starters, I can never know for sure what data is actually transmitted unless I closely monitor it, which may and should be impossible because I hope none of this gets transmitted without encryption.

 

Next, what do they do with that data?

Will they build user profiles or just gather anonymous statistics?

How well is the data protected and how do they prevent it from being stolen?

Once it is stolen, how well is any personal data secured by means of encryption? It is only stored encrypted, right? Right?

With whom will they share that data on a voluntary basis, what data will they share, and for what purposes?

Which law enforcement agencies from which countries will be legally allowed to access that data?

When law enforcement agencies request data, how thoroughly are these requests checked for formal and judicial validity?

 

I can easily imagine a future where the profile status locks or unlocks hardware features.

Been banned from more than 50 MP servers this month? Your GPU gets downgraded.

MasterCard Platinum member? Congratulations, valued customer, another 512 MB of RAM and an additional 450 MHz clock speed have just been unlocked, enjoy +20 FPS in Ultra 4K!

Oh look, we noticed that AAA title runs poorly on your machine, if you upgrade to a regular membership plan for only 2$/month we will provide the latest, guaranteed 40 or more FPS driver!

Parental control says you've exceed 2 hours/day, GPU shutdown.

Government says you've exceed 4 hours/day, GPU shutdown (no kidding, look at China).

Local laws say you're not allowed to play $game because of $reason, refusing to initialize.

Checksum failure, $game appears to be cracked. Refusing to initialize.

 

I'm sure people at nVidia and ATI and others can just as easily imagine this kind of future as well. Hey, guys, this is a dystopia, not a friggin blueprint! That future I don't want.

 

Next, hard- and software vendors give a crap about security (checked the firmware on your DSL or WiFi routers recently? Google it and I can practically guarantee it's outdated and riddled with security holes). I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if GFE actually tore a barn door shaped security hole into every single Windows system it's ever been installed on and if such a hole is open right now, making all of our, uh, your installations more vulnerable than they already are, until someone finds it and either exploits it or discloses it so that nVidia can fix it.

 

Finally, what freedom is taken away by collecting a little bit of data? It's my freedom of choice. I want to be able to choose what program sends what kind of data or doesn't. In an open market, we should be able to choose the vendor that best suits our preferences, but as has been stated numerous times, what market is there for graphics cards? ATI doesn't seem to be doing well and I can't say that I heard good things about their driver support, and that's that. Since I'm apparently stuck with nVidia, the very least I can do is voice my concerns and desires and hope they'll rethink what I consider to be a bad decision.

 

Call me conservative, but a driver should be a driver and additional tools should be entirely optional.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Yurgon
Added another plausible con