Downloading up-to-date nVidia drivers will soon require GeForce experience

[Yurgon]

I get the whole avoiding bloatware issue. It's a fine concept. But in reality any of these background processes will slow your PC down as much as carrying and extra grocery bag in the trunk slows down a Ferrari.

 

A grocery bag here, another there, and the trunk is so full you can't even fit an extra pair of shoes in there (I was about to say "box of beer", but I guess that would never fit in a Ferrari anyway). :)

 

On a more serious note, I've seen Windows PCs that remain more or less unusable for up to 30 seconds after login -- even with SSDs. People just install all kinds of crap that autoloads with Windows and then go like "Maybe I should get a new PC, mine is sooo slow".

 

This stuff just piles up and keeps piling up, which is one of the reasons why I care about small stuff that others would hardly notice.

 

To buy groceries or fuel, you will end up with a loyalty card account with just the same account details and sales trending records.

 

It's funny how you tell people to get a reality check and then imply that they do everything exactly like you do and base your assumptions on that version of reality. :huh:

 

The only people that should be worried about data collection is the ones that have something to hide [...]

 

If you have nothing to hide, you must be the most boring person on the planet. :)

 

So, 70+ posts, someone for Godwin? #68 was pretty close. :music_whistling:

 

If you people would fill out those registration cards in the box this would have never happened :P

 

Haha, so not gonna happen. :)

[sobek]

Not all data collection is for nefarious reasons is my only point.

 

A few points for you to ponder:

 

Suppose this is strictly for non-nefarious reasons (which i do believe this is, just in case you are wondering). Who's to say they don't get hacked? nVidia is big enough to be a target.

 

AFAIK GFE is not open source, so it's really, *really* hard to tell what data exactly they collect or if the protocols it uses are safe. So i'm gonna have to take their word for it, well gee, that's a load off my mind. Not.

 

If you think that there's no harm, you should spend an hour on youtube and do a little research what any script kiddie with half a brain and some knowledge of data science can do. I promise you'll be surprised.

 

[SharpeXB]

A grocery bag here, another there, and the trunk is so full you can't even fit an extra pair of shoes in there (I was about to say "box of beer", but I guess that would never fit in a Ferrari

Oh I agree with the concept. I did actually have GFE disabled along with a bunch of other junk.

I love getting a pop up for an iTunes update right in the middle of an attack run :crash:

[NeilWillis]

 

It's funny how you tell people to get a reality check and then imply that they do everything exactly like you do and base your assumptions on that version of reality. :huh:

 

 

I don't need a reality check, I live in the real world, and am not naive enough to assume my activities remain private in the modern world!

 

Are you saying you never provide any details when making purchases? Did you not provide ED with your address and more when you bought modules? Do you think you don't leave a paper trail every time you log in to any internet url?

 

Do you not register for guarantees on such things as expensive electrical goods? If not, what do you do when something breaks down?

 

It isn't my version of reality, it IS reality. From the moment you are born, someone somewhere has your data. You have a social security number? Then you're on computer data bases. You ever went to see a doctor? Then you have medical records. Ever owned a bank account? Then you'll have records in numerous places that identify your spending patterns, your credit worthiness etc.

 

You were not meant to take what I said literally, who knows, maybe you ride a bicycle, and live off home grown produce, have never bought a single thing online, don't rent or own property, but live in a jungle somewhere. However, your presence on the internet tells me you, or someone close to you pays power bills, internet service provider fees, therefore probably has a bank account. My hunch says you actually bank, and pay utility bills yourself, so already there is a huge amount of data about you out there.

 

So, who is it that needs to get a reality check?

 

The truth is, there are millions of people on this planet, so what makes you think anyone would be interested in a boring individual like you? Don't flatter yourselves into thinking anyone else actually gives a damn about who you are! All you are is a statistic to most organisations, not an individual.

Edited October 22, 2015 by NeilWillis

[jay43]

If you have nothing to hide, you must be the most boring person on the planet. :)

 

Oh so you're going to insult me now then, having nothing to hide does not mean you are boring.

[jay43]

You are joking, right? I mean... you don't seriously believe this, right? :lol:

 

No i am not joking and yes when i have seen it with my own eyes i do tend to believe it.

[Yurgon]

Are you saying you never provide any details when making purchases? Did you not provide ED with your address and more when you bought modules? Do you think you don't leave a paper trail every time you log in to any internet url? [...]

 

You make a lot of good points there.

 

The counterpoint is that most of the examples you provided are mandatory, we can't just opt-out of social security etcetera.

 

Some of the data collection on the other hand is voluntary. Personally, I try to keep the voluntary part to, well, maybe not a minimum, but I'm trying not to give data and information away to just anyone who asks. I don't partake in any of those supermarket customer bonus programs, I only sign up with services when I can see a very clear personal gain (like ED - if I could remain entirely anonymous towards ED, I'd love to do so, but I can see why I need an account with them and so I accept it, although I'd much prefer it if DCS came without copy protection and we could go online without an ED account).

 

As for the warranty, we have a two year guaranteed warranty by law in Germany that covers the basics, and I'm usually fine with that.

 

In this thread, we've had various good reasons for not giving away personal data and maintaining a certain degree of privacy (I just watched Greenwald's talk, and although I knew in advance what points he was probably going to make, it was a very good talk IMO).

 

One I'd like to add is that companies actually make money off our data. It's currency. We supply them with a valuable resource, and what do we get in return, is it worth it?

 

Do I personally fear that something terrible might happen to me when GFE collects whatever data from my PC and then $whoever tries to use it against me? Nope, very unlikely. That doesn't mean I'm more likely to let them collect it.

 

Oh so you're going to insult me now then, having nothing to hide does not mean you are boring.

 

It just never occurred to me that your post was meant seriously, so I made some kind of a joke in return.

 

Glen Greenwald's talk from a few posts ago goes into this. We all have something to hide. If not, would you post all your Facebook and email and ED forum account credentials and dump your entire unencrypted harddrive/sdcard contents from all your computers and electronic devices somewhere so we can all make sure? If you have a webcam, do you stream it to the Internet 24/7? Do you keep your doors unlocked so total strangers can go through your stuff? Would it be okay if someone listened in on all your phone calls? And so on and so forth.

 

Anyway, while we all might learn something from the ensuing discussion about privacy and what it means to society when people justify invasion of privacy by saying they've got nothing to hide, I guess we're venturing pretty far off-topic now.

[NineLine]

You can see why we don't allow political discussions on this forum when people get so heated over a simple little program ;)

 

Would like to remind everyone to play nice, and sometimes step away from the PC and take a short break before responding.

[sobek]

No i am not joking and yes when i have seen it with my own eyes i do tend to believe it.

 

And how does that work exactly?

[NineLine]

A few points for you to ponder:

 

Suppose this is strictly for non-nefarious reasons (which i do believe this is, just in case you are wondering). Who's to say they don't get hacked? nVidia is big enough to be a target.

 

AFAIK GFE is not open source, so it's really, *really* hard to tell what data exactly they collect or if the protocols it uses are safe. So i'm gonna have to take their word for it, well gee, that's a load off my mind. Not.

 

If you think that there's no harm, you should spend an hour on youtube and do a little research what any script kiddie with half a brain and some knowledge of data science can do. I promise you'll be surprised.

 

 

At risk of going all straw man on you again, what program on your computer isnt hackable if someone really wants to get in, what company that you use online is 100% secure. How can you guarantee that when you take a walk this afternoon that you wont get robbed at knife point?

 

Do you pull the network cable on your puter, stay indoors... live in fear of all the things that could happen? Sorry but it all sounds slightly paranoid, I know its hip to hate on the corporations, but Im really not stressing it too much...

 

Bottomline is that like it or not, this is their choice (nothing new or world shattering here either), the program does a lot of cool stuff, collects some data, and everyone lives happily ever after, or you refuse to use it, switch to AMD until they start doing the same thing... or give up on computers because they are too hacky and move into the mountains and live a life of peace and happiness, my dad is quite happy with out a computer ;)

[Toxe]

Oh so you're going to insult me now then, having nothing to hide does not mean you are boring.

 

Prove it, show us that you are not boring. :-)

 

Why not install a couple of webcams in your house and let us watch what's going on. I mean you are no low life scum so you got nothing to hide and shouldn't be worried, right? :-)

[cichlidfan]

Gentlemen, giving everyone the benefit of doubt here ;) , it is obvious that we all value our privacy. Some of us are more conservative in our views on the subject, and some less so. I know plenty of people at both ends of the spectrum, and everywhere in between.

 

Any one of us is still 'hackable' whether it is through something like Nvidia's tool or through some government database.

 

It's important to remember, "Just because you are paranoid, or not, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you." :)

[SharpeXB]

87 pages... and this is all you gotta do if you don't like it :doh:

[dburne]

87 pages... and this is all you gotta do if you don't like it

 

Just for clarification purposes, many of those 87 pages ( although I think probably you meant posts), were contributed by yourself as well...

:shocking:

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the change Nvidia is making to the accessibility of their drivers. You use it and like it, that is ok I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong for doing so. You won't find that in any of my posts in this thread.

 

No real reason to dismiss the opinion of those that do not like having it forced upon us either. That would be just as wrong as if I were to tell you that you should not be using it.

 

The issue is again, not the merits of the program or what it can do or how little resources it might use, the issue is the change Nvidia is making to the availability of their drivers. Personally I think it is a cheap lame way for them to get more people onto the GFE, but that is just me.

[sobek]

At risk of going all straw man on you again, what program on your computer isnt hackable

 

Well there's quite a few services that are potentially vulnerable, but i do take measure to make it reasonably hard for my computer to be compromised. If somebody wants in, he has to work for it, and i'm not an attractive target. Using open source software that is frequently reviewed by a large community and patched in a timely fashion will do that for you.

 

If my data is aggregated together with millions of other users, well, that's a formidable target. You can generate serious revenue if you get your hands on that data (if you've got enough of them, selling email adresses pays off not too bad, and the adresses are just for starters).

 

The more big companies that have my data aggregated, the more i am at risk that one of them gets compromised. Probability 101.

 

if someone really wants to get in, what company that you use online is 100% secure.

 

None, the question is, how essential is their service to me and how big of a target are they.

 

 

How can you guarantee that when you take a walk this afternoon that you wont get robbed at knife point?

 

I can't guarantee it, but i can mitigate the risks by not restricting my walk to the most notorious bars and pissing off the locals (and Austria is quite safe to begin with :P).

 

Do you pull the network cable on your puter, stay indoors... live in fear of all the things that could happen?

 

No. Do you walk up to the next guy that looks kinda shady and wiggle your wallet under his nose? Do you think that people using the seatbelts in their car live in paranoid fear of a car accident?

 

The things i do i don't do because of some obstruse fear that something might happen. I work in IT and i know what can go wrong and i've seen it go wrong often enough. I also know a fair bit about what can and can't be done with my data (a small hint, if government agencies try to tell you that the data they routinely collect helps them fend off terrorist attacks, then they are full of it, it's simply a show of force to make you feel safe). The steps i take are neither incredibly obstructive to how i can make use of my computer or technology, nor are they outlandish. I follow trends and advice given out by industry professionals. The fact that you are simply unaware of the dangers doesn't make me a conspiracy nut.

 

Sorry but it all sounds slightly paranoid, I know its hip to hate on the corporations, but Im really not stressing it too much...

 

:doh: Yeah, that really deserves another facepalm.

 

Bottomline is that like it or not, this is their choice (nothing new or world shattering here either), the program does a lot of cool stuff, collects some data, and everyone lives happily ever after, or you refuse to use it, switch to AMD until they start doing the same thing... or give up on computers because they are too hacky and move into the mountains and live a life of peace and happiness, my dad is quite happy with out a computer ;)

 

Those are not the only alternatives. nVidia don't have to collect our data, they just choose to (because people don't care). ;)

Edited October 23, 2015 by sobek

[NineLine]

Whatever helps you sleep at night... ;)

[NeilWillis]

Wow sobek, how do you sleep nights?

 

Also, if I were a hacker, I'd see your opening lines in that last post, and make you target numero uno! No one I know would turn down such a mouth watering challenge. Just as well no one of any significance is ever likely to bother reading it among the billions of other posts that have been made in the past few minutes.

 

Fundamentally, there are quite a few of us out there in ether land, and frankly, your chances of becoming a hacking victim are infinitesimally small. As I said, like anyone would care about your data regarding your computer usage, and what peripherals or components you own, or even where you live!

 

Just like all this paranoia regarding intelligence gathering. The fact is, you have to do something out of the ordinary - to fit a very specific pattern to even appear on their radar. Or do you imagine that at the listening centres they have half the world's population beavering away watching the other half! Because to read that much data, that's exactly what you'd need. It just amazes me that everyone imagines the government agencies actually give a damn about your average joe-public one way or another.

 

Sure, there are enormous threats against every single one of us, but face it, we are just one individual in a sea of vast populations. If you're singled out, it'd be like winning the lottery - only far less likely!

 

Intelligence gatherers look for specific patterns or key words, and then when they have narrowed the search down to the nearest 3 million they start to analyse that data set. Like you actually matter to any of that kind of analysis - yeah right, the world is out to get you personally!!! What they're actually doing is looking for the individual that IS out to get you.

 

Also, if a corporation has it's records hacked - as has happened today in the UK by all accounts - Talk-Talk had it's 3 million user database raided. Guess who will pick up the tab for all the costs involved? Yes, Talk-Talk are obliged now to compensate for their security breach. You might be inconvenienced to the extent that you might have to change a pin number here, a password there, or god forbid - change your security question at your bank - shock horror, the world as we know it is ending!!! But the bottom line is if your bank account is insecure, it is the bank's problem, not yours. They actually expect to lose money that way, and budget for it!

 

Am I worried? Sure I am, about all those of us out here who try to make out they're potential victims, when in fact we live dull, mundane and totally uninteresting lives. Statisticians can analyse us, and draw conclusions, advertising may be targeted at us because we are interested in certain things, Google may sell data sets that contain us. That however doesn't mean you have to buy everything that the advertisers draw your attention to.

 

So for goodness sake, put the tinfoil away, and revel in your ordinariness, and hope and pray that some day someone will have known you ever existed among the 7.2 billion people you share this planet with.!

[sobek]

Thanks for completely ignoring what i posted and jumping on the 'OMG you so paranoid' train.

 

Wow sobek, how do you sleep nights?

 

Like a baby, thanks for your concern.

 

Also, if I were a hacker, I'd see your opening lines in that last post, and make you target numero uno!

 

No, you wouldn't.

 

No one I know would turn down such a mouth watering challenge.

 

Clearly you don't know any hackers. I neither have a social status nor the funds to make it worth anybodies while, and i indicated this in my last post, so yeah, thanks for stating the obvious.

 

Fundamentally, there are quite a few of us out there in ether land, and frankly, your chances of becoming a hacking victim are infinitesimally small. As I said, like anyone would care about your data regarding your computer usage, and what peripherals or components you own, or even where you live!

 

Wrong. Depending on where my data is parked together with other peoples data, there's a fair chance some of it will fall into hands that were not supposed to have it in the first place during the course of my lifetime.

 

And even if it's just my email adress, why on gods earth do i now need to justify my opposition, even if the consequence is as measly as receiving one spam mail more per day? This is nuts.

 

Just like all this paranoia regarding intelligence gathering. The fact is, you have to do something out of the ordinary - to fit a very specific pattern to even appear on their radar. Or do you imagine that at the listening centres they have half the world's population beavering away watching the other half! Because to read that much data, that's exactly what you'd need. It just amazes me that everyone imagines the government agencies actually give a damn about your average joe-public one way or another.

 

LOL, well who defines what is ordinary? If you have data on my social network, you can extract practically everything, my sexual orientation, what party i vote for, a statistic for my life expectancy, yeah, that's stuff that does not belong in the public domain, and before the advent of the internet, legislation in democratic countries tended to back this up. That is you have a constitutional right for some of your data to remain accessible to only a select few individuals. Ah man, what were those politicians of yesterday thinking? Give me a break and just watch the TED talk...

 

Intelligence gatherers look for specific patterns or key words, and then when they have narrowed the search down to the nearest 3 million they start to analyse that data set. Like you actually matter to any of that kind of analysis - yeah right, the world is out to get you personally!!! What they're actually doing is looking for the individual that IS out to get you.

 

But what if i suddenly do? Me and some other x% of the population for reason #whatsitsname. Why would i want to make it easier for the leading political party of a nation to root out anybody who (not even exclusively openly) opposes them? Please sell it to me, because right now that argument is dead in the water, even more so when you look at the data that enabled some terrorist attacks to be prevented. That was almost exclusively targeted surveillance, that is, espionage with tactics employed since at least the cold war, not mass surveillance.

 

Also, if a corporation has it's records hacked - as has happened today in the UK by all accounts - Talk-Talk had it's 3 million user database raided. Guess who will pick up the tab for all the costs involved? Yes, Talk-Talk are obliged now to compensate for their security breach. You might be inconvenienced to the extent that you might have to change a pin number here, a password there, or god forbid - change your security question at your bank - shock horror, the world as we know it is ending!!! But the bottom line is if your bank account is insecure, it is the bank's problem, not yours. They actually expect to lose money that way, and budget for it!

 

True, but there's data that if leaked causes irreparable damages to me. I don't care about bank accounts, they are as you correctly stated well insured against these kinds of attacks. Not all can be fixed with monetary reparation though.

 

Am I worried? Sure I am, about all those of us out here who try to make out they're potential victims, when in fact we live dull, mundane and totally uninteresting lives. Statisticians can analyse us, and draw conclusions, advertising may be targeted at us because we are interested in certain things, Google may sell data sets that contain us. That however doesn't mean you have to buy everything that the advertisers draw your attention to.

 

So for goodness sake, put the tinfoil away, and revel in your ordinariness, and hope and pray that some day someone will have known you ever existed among the 7.2 billion people you share this planet with.!

 

You still haven't watched that TED talk...

Edited October 23, 2015 by sobek

[NeilWillis]

I must apologise Sobek, I do know what you mean, and I was just playing devil's advocate really. But the fact remains, that we are all just white noise in a sea of static. It makes complete sense to take precautions. My point is that there is no reason whatsoever to suspect Nvidia are gathering data to harm us, and even if they were, it wouldn't be long before they were caught out, and vilified as a result, which simply makes no sense to a successful business. Even if they sold our data, the ways it can be used are remarkably limited. The people that buy it might make some phone calls, or send some spam realistically speaking. IF they went as far as trying to raid your bank account, you're indemnified.

 

So, is it unwise to allow limited data gathering to take place? Actually, it might be a positive thing because in the future Nvidia will target their products more intelligently, and you might even get a better graphics card. THAT is their motive, and how is that bad exactly?

 

To actually be singled out, and targetted, you need to be someone like the head of Google, or the Secretary of State. We mere mortals are only ever statistics at best.

 

To imagine otherwise is just an exercise in egotism. They really aren't out to get us because they have no idea we even exist.

[OnlyforDCS]

One other thing to consider, the larger your (our) digital footprint on the internet the higher the chance that someone, somewhere might steal or misuse that data. Identity theft is very serious, and getting hacked can be a very dangerous, costly and traumatic experience.

 

The argument "Oh but everyone does it..." is tired, and really not a very good argument at all.

 

Just my 2c.

[SharpeXB]

And even if it's just my email adress, why on gods earth do i now need to justify my opposition, even if the consequence is as measly as receiving one spam mail more per day? This is nuts.

I never give my office email to anyone except as part of business. I never use it for anything personal, only professional. Of course I have a separate personal one. What's funny is that I hardly get any spam at the office at all. Never have. Of course my personal email is full of spam.

The only way to avoid that would be to ever use it at all so what's the point? If you're worried about people getting your personal email address, you'd have to restrict your own use of it so much there'd be no point in having one.

And Nvidia won't have your email address unless you gave it to them. And GFE doesn't collect anything identifiable on you unless you actually made an account with Nvidia.

[NeilWillis]

 

LOL, well who defines what is ordinary? If you have data on my social network, you can extract practically everything, my sexual orientation, what party i vote for, a statistic for my life expectancy, yeah, that's stuff that does not belong in the public domain, and before the advent of the internet, legislation in democratic countries tended to back this up. That is you have a constitutional right for some of your data to remain accessible to only a select few individuals. Ah man, what were those politicians of yesterday thinking? Give me a break and just watch the TED talk...

 

 

As it happens that we live in a world where your sexual orientation, political leanings, life expectancy really don't matter, and also as you are STILL one in 7.2 BILLION other people, you have to ask yourself why a) anyone would be interested in you, and b) who the hell has the resources to be searching for you in particular in the first instance.

 

Don't kid yourself, you are irrelevant, as am I, and the other 7.199999999 Billion other humans that infest this planet. What you ought to be worried about is how much longer it will be habitable, not which one of the other infestees is interested in infesting your sad lonely sorry life.

 

Get one thing straight YOU ACTUALLY DON'T MATTER to the vast vast majority, so why do you imagine for a moment they'd a) care how much of a queen or bloke you may be. b) want to do the slightest thing with the information they so cunningly gleaned that you yourself already made public?

 

Unless you are someone who makes a difference one way or another, you're just static in an otherwise uninterested universe.

 

Oh and it isn't good netiquette to change your posting completely after it has been responded to.

[sobek]

As it happens that we live in a world where your sexual orientation, political leanings, life expectancy really don't matter, and also as you are STILL one in 7.2 BILLION other people, you have to ask yourself why a) anyone would be interested in you, and b) who the hell has the resources to be searching for you in particular in the first instance.

 

Wow, you still didn't watch the TED talk.

 

If you still don't want to acknowledge that this is an issue that concerns society and not me as a single individual, then there's no point in further discussing this. I know it's your only argument, doesn't make it more valid.

 

Don't kid yourself, you are irrelevant, as am I, and the other 7.199999999 Billion other humans that infest this planet. What you ought to be worried about is how much longer it will be habitable, not which one of the other infestees is interested in infesting

 

Which i am. Can i please have your permission to worry about other things too? Pretty please.

 

your sad lonely sorry life.

 

Oh wow, this guy cares about IT sec, he must be a prototypical nerd. Well played sir. :doh:

 

My life is neither sad, nor is it sorry or lonely, so let's leave it at that.

 

 

want to do the slightest thing with the information they so cunningly gleaned that you yourself already made public?

 

The spoonfeeding gets a bit tiresome by now. I said my social network, that is, the people i interact with in my private/professional life. Something as benign as my adress book is enough to profile my social network (or my phone records). You don't need access to a social networking website (like facebook) to get that data, which was part of my argument. Not that there's a lot about me on any of them.

 

Oh and it isn't good netiquette to change your posting completely after it has been responded to.

 

Get your facts straight. I posted my edit well before your post appeared, the rest was typo fixing.

 

May i also direct your attention at the irony of you demanding netiquette while posting ad hominem attacks? :)

Edited October 23, 2015 by sobek

[NeilWillis]

 

My life is neither sad, nor is it sorry or lonely, so let's leave it at that.

 

 

And this was addressed to you as an individual? I refer to you, and the other 7.2 BILLION - please note the size of that number - BILLION, that's 1x10^9 other people. Just how do you personally stand out from the rest?

 

Again, you get the impression you matter outside your own little bubble. Why is it you feel so important that anyone would actually consider your existence to be relevant in the great scheme of things?

 

If you tell us that, maybe we might be worried whether you are gay, straight, dying from old age or cancer in another X years, and whether you voted for (please insert your choice of political parties here).

 

On the other hand, maybe you are just as insignificant as the rest of us, and should just consider yourself ordinary and a statistic.

 

Some @@@@@@@ can stand up with a microphone and say just what he likes, it doesn't make it any truer, and I still don't see how this should prevent you from using some unremarkable software!

 

:helpsmilie:

[NeilWillis]

 

Get your facts straight. I posted my edit well before your post appeared, the rest was typo fixing.

 

 

Time stamps don't lie, you amended the post 2 minutes AFTER mine was posted.

 

facts - straight!