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A couple of radar questions


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Hello, I'm new here but have been visiting this forum for a long time. I'm fairly experienced with Lomac in terms of engagement principals, handling, and weapons deployment, but I still have a hard time understanding exactly how the radar system works.

 

I fly the Su-27 almost exclusively. Not that I dislike other aircraft, but the flanker has been my favorite plane since childhood. Enough about that, though. My questions are related to the Su-27's radar system.

 

First, I'm aware that the Su-27 uses the N001 pulse doppler radar. I read somwhere--not sure where--that the Mig-29S uses a more advanced radar, yet I have found the Su-27 to perform much better in terms of range and holding the lock. Maybe I'm just imagining things.

 

Secondly, I understand there are a couple of different radar modes--one

for forward facing targets, another for rearward facing targets, and an automatic mode. Despite having played this game for almost a year now, I'm still not quite sure how to access these modes and utilize them effectively. Any tips?

 

Third of all, I understand that the number near the lower middle portion of the HUD (in BVR mode) is the target size designator. I never mess with it, yet I always get a lock despite the target's size. I assume it isn't absolutely necessary to properly designate target size, but what advantages are there from doing so?

 

My biggest gripe, however, is beaming. I understand that beaming is tactic in which the opponent lines up his aircraft perfectly perpindicular to your radar in order to appear as though his aircraft has an airspeed of 0 or close to it. The issue I have is that the AI seems to do it perfectly everytime. Is this realistic? Is it really that easy to beam? I seem to be unable to do it. I get shot down every single time. Therefore, I have completely abandoned this tactic when I see that an enemy AMRAAM is coming towards me. Unfortunately, the AI is much better at it and always, always, always uses it. I can't even get a kill with a radar huided missile anymore; I now use IR seekers in their stead. My question is this: are there any methods or tricks you can use to prevent your opponent from beaming or prevent his beaming from breaking your lock? It's quite frustrating. Manuvering in order to keep the target from attaining a perfect right angle is near impossible for some reason. The lock is almost always broken.

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Hello, I'm new here but have been visiting this forum for a long time. I'm fairly experienced with Lomac in terms of engagement principals, handling, and weapons deployment, but I still have a hard time understanding exactly how the radar system works.

 

I fly the Su-27 almost exclusively. Not that I dislike other aircraft, but the flanker has been my favorite plane since childhood. Enough about that, though. My questions are related to the Su-27's radar system.

 

First, I'm aware that the Su-27 uses the N001 pulse doppler radar. I read somwhere--not sure where--that the Mig-29S uses a more advanced radar, yet I have found the Su-27 to perform much better in terms of range and holding the lock. Maybe I'm just imagining things.

 

Newer doesnt' really mean more advanced. The MiG's radar is definitely not as good as the flanker's.

 

Secondly, I understand there are a couple of different radar modes--one

for forward facing targets, another for rearward facing targets, and an automatic mode. Despite having played this game for almost a year now, I'm still not quite sure how to access these modes and utilize them effectively. Any tips?

 

High and low PRF modes are listed in the keyboard guide/doc. I dont'r ecall the keys off-hand.

 

Third of all, I understand that the number near the lower middle portion of the HUD (in BVR mode) is the target size designator. I never mess with it, yet I always get a lock despite the target's size. I assume it isn't absolutely necessary to properly designate target size, but what advantages are there from doing so?

 

Actually, it's the 'expected target range' number, in km. If the expected range is wrong, you might have a hard time finding a target, because the expected range dictates the antenna angle when you command the radar to scan lower or higher.

 

My biggest gripe, however, is beaming. I understand that beaming is tactic in which the opponent lines up his aircraft perfectly perpindicular to your radar in order to appear as though his aircraft has an airspeed of 0 or close to it. The issue I have is that the AI seems to do it perfectly everytime. Is this realistic? Is it really that easy to beam? I seem to be unable to do it. I get shot down every single time. Therefore, I have completely abandoned this tactic when I see that an enemy AMRAAM is coming towards me. Unfortunately, the AI is much better at it and always, always, always uses it. I can't even get a kill with a radar huided missile anymore; I now use IR seekers in their stead. My question is this: are there any methods or tricks you can use to prevent your opponent from beaming or prevent his beaming from breaking your lock? It's quite frustrating. Manuvering in order to keep the target from attaining a perfect right angle is near impossible for some reason. The lock is almost always broken.

 

 

Dive below your target's altitude. Beaming only works in look-down situations.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Thanks a ton, GG. I noticed you're always helpful around these boards.

 

So why exactly is the MiG's radar so inferior? Is it too much smaller? Less power?

 

I can't believe the solution to beaming was so simple. :doh:

All this time I must have been engaging my opponents from above. I sort of figured this was logical since their missile would have less range and mine would have more range. Forgive my limited knowledge on the subject.

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You're welcome :)

 

The MiG's radar antenna is smaller, so it creates a wider beam. This means you have less power per unit of area. It's just a physical limitation.

 

Also, the MiG's radar had a less powerful processor than the Flanker's radar, which was to some degree fixed in the 29S, so it may have a slightly tighter notch and better clutter rejection, less false contacts etc, though this isn't modelled in LOMAC.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Hi,

 

Despite being manufactured by two different companies, the N019(NIIR) and N001(NIIP) radars are all but identical in design and share some 80% of their components - I believe that includes the Ts100 main processor GG ;) .

 

But the N001 has a larger antenna - some 1075 mm in diameter versus 700 mm of the N019, which makes the N001 more powerful than the N019. The N019 and N001 have a similar emitter output, but as GG mentioned, the larger antenna of the N001 means that it can better form its beam (more concentrated) and pick up more faint return signals - i.e. at greater distances.

 

So I don't think you can say that the N001 is "better" than the N019 as such - it is just more powerful because the Su-27 is a bigger aircraft than the MiG-29 and thus has room for a bigger radar in its radome. The actual radar functionality of the N019 and N001 is similar, but the Su-27 firecontrol system(SUV-27) controlling the N001 may have additional features as compared with the SUV-29 of the MiG-29 though.

 

First, I'm aware that the Su-27 uses the N001 pulse doppler radar. I read somwhere--not sure where--that the Mig-29S uses a more advanced radar....

 

The MiG-29S has a modified firecontrol system(SUV-29S) with support for the R-77 and a slightly upgraded version of the N019 radar(designated "N019M"), which amoung other things features a new and more powerful main processor. But it would be an exageration to say that the N019M radar is "more advanced" - it is more a case of an "improved" N019.

 

... yet I have found the Su-27 to perform much better in terms of range and holding the lock. Maybe I'm just imagining things.

 

No that sounds quite right - the N001 radar certainly has a clear range advantage and this would also affect its ability to better maintain a lock at shorter ranges as compared with the N019.

 

Secondly, I understand there are a couple of different radar modes--one for forward facing targets, another for rearward facing targets, and an automatic mode. Despite having played this game for almost a year now, I'm still not quite sure how to access these modes and utilize them effectively. Any tips?

 

These are the PRF(Pulse Repetition Frequency) modes that the radar can operate in:

 

"Encounter": is used for searching targets in head-on aspect and provides the optimal search range, but it is useless against receeding targets - i.e. you can be chasing an enemy that is within visible range without the radar being able to pick it up - in this situation you would switch to...

 

"Pursuit": which is optimised for searching out receeding targets - it can also pick up head-on ones, but only at very short ranges.

 

"Automatic": this is a combination of the two above mentioned. It is the easiest one to use, but as it is something of a compromise between the specialised "Encounter" and "Pursuit" modes, it does not provide quite the same head-on detection range as "Encounter"....IIRC only some 75% of this.

 

The key combination for switching PRF modes is WIN + i....unfortunately :D . I would recommend to swap around the key combinations for "PRF modes" and "easy radar" by remapping them in Options > Input - so that PRF modes are accessed with SHIFT + i and "easy radar" with the Win + i.......because key combinations involving the "Win"-key can be problematic in connection with HOTAS programming software.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

JJ

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While you're at it and these AI guys are trying to beam you at around 12-13 miles, don't forget to switch to the R-27ET missile for a little surprise.

 

The missile "won" the popularity contest by a large margin due to the hazards of advanced missile modelling mainly:

 

http://www.syn-ack.com/vvs504/stats/vvs504-weapons.shtml

 

Even in single player it really rules. I usually aim it with some lead at a bandit diving away from my R-27ER; it flies very straight and than "snatches" to its pray with a tenacious voracity. Often saves the day. Hope this won't get "fixed" in a next patch ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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It'll get 'fixed' when missiles are revisited I'm certain. As will the radar missiles ... and then we can hopefuly see some realistic tactics.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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It'll get 'fixed' when missiles are revisited I'm certain. As will the radar missiles ... and then we can hopefuly see some realistic tactics.

 

Yea I hope so, cause the 120's are thrash. At least that is what a few real F-16 pilots said to me.

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It'll get 'fixed' when missiles are revisited I'm certain. As will the radar missiles ... and then we can hopefuly see some realistic tactics.

I'm sure they will ... but the big question GGT is when will that be! If its in BS, I'll place my order now, twice!

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Does that mean they are good or bad?

 

Of course they are better IRL then in LO, that's all I can say. But there are some dumb pilots out there, the things they tell us.

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I'm sure they will ... but the big question GGT is when will that be! If its in BS, I'll place my order now, twice!

 

BS might see a tweak or two and I say -might-. As you know we're already getting an upgraded AMRAAM.

 

However a full review of the missiles will likely happen in the fighter project, that is my guess.

 

BS is -heavily- focussed on the Ka-50. Believe me, there's an incredible amount of effort being put to simulate that helo as well as possible, and it's -very- complex.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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As you know we're already getting an upgraded AMRAAM.

 

However a full review of the missiles will likely happen in the fighter project, that is my guess.

 

BS is -heavily- focussed on the Ka-50. Believe me, there's an incredible amount of effort being put to simulate that helo as well as possible, and it's -very- complex.

 

But is it just a skin job or does it have some enhanced capabilities?

 

Like to hazard a guess on timescales? I'm not being sarcastic ... genuinely interested. :)

 

I'm sure it'll be great if you are into helicopters ... for me, I like jousting A2A, helicopters are just slow/noisy targets!

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Didn't I answer you that already? :P

It's got better countermeasure rejection and there's been a seeker tweak for it too I think.

 

As for timeline, it will be a while. I think WAFM will come in with Tank Killers (I would guess, at the current pace of development that has been shown by ED, we're looking at a year to a year and a half) and then the fighters project in approximately two to two and a half years.

 

Just based on timelines between LOMAC/FC and their respective patches.

 

And um, it doesn't matter if I'm into helos or not. I was made pretty clear that the helo gets 100% priority in BS :)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Didn't I answer you that already? :P

It's got better countermeasure rejection and there's been a seeker tweak for it too I think.

 

Indeed ... so nothing specific then? A 'seeker tweak' ... is that like the radar tweak the 15s TWS mode got in the last patch?

 

So a major release per year for the next couple of years ... thats cool

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And that sarcastic reply is precicesly why I'm not telling you any more. Just like in the other thread. :P

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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BTW, one more tip, you can't really beam active radar missiles such as the R77's or AMRAAM's, bc their positions change all the time.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Home address: 81°28W, 29°85N

 

Don't try to Waste Your Bombs and Missiles BC They are More Expensive.

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What's your ground speed relative to a missile coming from any direction when you're flying 90 deg down?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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