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How will servers deal with new theaters of war?


Mirknir
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Hello server owners / players

 

I am currently hosting a server on DCS 1.2 and soon 1.5.

My server is designed like a place for everyone to come, experiment the game, practice and have fun.

I have a lot of newcomers/free-to-play players and also a lot of DCS passionates.

 

However, I am wondering how I will handle the new Nevada map and later the other theaters of war that will be released.

 

I guess you won't be able to join a nevada server if you didn't buy the nevada.

Thus, I fear it means I have to drop part of my players ; the newcomers/free-to-play players if I switch to Nevada or the DCS passionates if I stay with Georgia.

I am also wondering if any public servers will remain for newcomers or free-to-play players to play on.

 

So, that's pretty much my dilemma :cry:

 

I would like to have your opinion, see what people thinks and also what server owners think they will do...

 

I love the concept of having new maps, I am just wondering how it will affect the servers and the community.

Mirknir

My old server:

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It will be like whenever Battlefield 3/4 got new expansions released. Upon release a large number of servers will switch to the new content for a few weeks where it seems like the new content is played non-stop. Eventually the servers playing new content will get into a healthy mix of maps based. Bear in mind when the servers do switch to new content there will be other servers willing to "fill the void" with default content. Servers that gravitate toward a teaching or relaxed and accessible atmosphere will likely stick with the Black Sea while having a few scattered Nevada sessions. Its also worth noting that at the moment literally 100% of MP mission content created is on the Black Sea, so it might be a little while for Nevada specific content to get anywhere close to what we have now.

 

I think it might be a little different for each terrain that is released and how its released. For example I know many have brought up the thought that they don't think Nevada is interesting because it is a "training map" and it doesn't make sense having combat scenarios on there. On the other hand the Strait of Hormuz fits virtual combat needs more, so it might be more popular in the long run. In terms of release many people will own Nevada simply to due to A-10C pre-orders and we don't know if other maps will be bundled in the same manor in the future.

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It will be like whenever Battlefield 3/4 got new expansions released. Upon release a large number of servers will switch to the new content for a few weeks where it seems like the new content is played non-stop. Eventually the servers playing new content will get into a healthy mix of maps based. Bear in mind when the servers do switch to new content there will be other servers willing to "fill the void" with default content. Servers that gravitate toward a teaching or relaxed and accessible atmosphere will likely stick with the Black Sea while having a few scattered Nevada sessions. Its also worth noting that at the moment literally 100% of MP mission content created is on the Black Sea, so it might be a little while for Nevada specific content to get anywhere close to what we have now.

 

I think it might be a little different for each terrain that is released and how its released. For example I know many have brought up the thought that they don't think Nevada is interesting because it is a "training map" and it doesn't make sense having combat scenarios on there. On the other hand the Strait of Hormuz fits virtual combat needs more, so it might be more popular in the long run. In terms of release many people will own Nevada simply to due to A-10C pre-orders and we don't know if other maps will be bundled in the same manor in the future.

 

I agree with you that it will be scattered a lot and that's what I fear.

I don't think we can really compare DCS to Battlefield as I feel DCS online servers are in more modest numbers thus any division or scattering will have more impact.

 

For example, even if it's a temporary situation, I can already feel that DCS 1.5 has divided the player base of my server with 50% of them playing on 1.5 and the rest on 1.2.

As a server owner, I already feel I have to choose a side and let down the other.

 

And because I feel a division now, I can kinda predict what the release of new maps will be like especially since, comparing to the 1.2 vs 1.5, money will be involved.

 

As a passionate server owner, I feel torn.

As a passionate player, I want the maximum content possible and fly all around the world and kill F15 ; everywhere ; all the time ; in every possible planes ; with my friend as RIO :)

Mirknir

My old server:

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How about those who play the game on one computer and host a server on another. Will we have to buy two copies of the Nevada map?

 

Even if it's a valid question, my concerns are more philosophical.

I am pretty sure we will be able to activate the one purchase on 2 platforms. (I play on steam and host on web site version)

Mirknir

My old server:

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Wags stated a while ago in one of the Q&A sessions streamed in a video that in order to host NTTR on a server, we'd require a licensed copy of NTTR on the server.

 

As for the mix of Georgia and NTTR - servers should be able to run both side by side. Our server (RAF Air) certainly can.

 

As more maps are released, there will naturally be far more servers running the new stuff and leaving the Georgia theatre neglected, but there is nothing stopping anyone from hosting. If you want Georgia, then host it, and I'm sure you'll get plenty joining you.

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Sounds bad for the long run .. Maps price will have to be reduced for us server owner to get licenses.. something must be done .. dedicated servers could run all maps without licences if I presume the graphics less dedicate servers will arrive. you can built mission on your main licensed DCS version an load the mission on your server. but having to pay twice for the same map.. hummm not good,.. some policies much change on that case.

 

You may run the map built things for it and maybe not able to respawn and just stay on spectator mode.. also it's good marketing.

Fly it like you stole it..

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I think what Mirknir is wondering about, is about social and gameplay implications of the new maps.

 

Don’t get me wrong: I think this is normal to pay for well-designed maps as we can do with FSX for example. And it is logical that servers as well as clients have to play for them (one can reasonably assume that a person hosting a server can also use its license for its own flights as a client).

 

The real question is more about how the community is going to be divided and will the new comers suffer from this “abundance” of maps.

 

Let’s put it this way:

 

  • Actually, any player of DCS World, especially new comers can join any public server. Simply because the only map available is literally free…
  • Now, new payware maps are coming (starting with NTTR), and we can assume that the most popular servers available today will probably switch to NTTR. With the side effect of cutting them from new players... Since there is a relatively small amount of public servers available (compared to other games), new players may end with not so interesting things to do online in the good old Caucasus map deserted by the “advanced” players…

 

I have no idea how this is going to turn in practice. But this is an interesting social/gameplay concern…

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FSX do not create new maps it's like a shell.. you can still land on your basic map while others have high rez textured maps but FSX is not a quite good example.. the problem is for servers running maps .. buying maps is ok really if the price is low enough it is different for aircraft since the main DCS use them as ai or external but you can't pilot them. Are maps should be similar ? on the main DCS:world but people that do not have the map can watch only.. sounds good to me.

Fly it like you stole it..

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How about those who play the game on one computer and host a server on another. Will we have to buy two copies of the Nevada map?

 

This was highly irritating to me when I originally started hosting the Firehouse server... I had to buy 2 copies of A-10C so that I could run separately from the server- THEN it changed and you could download DCS World for free and run with that.

 

I would later learn about sales etc so the financial aspect isn't really what annoys me. It's that the folks who are putting the hardware to work, and the time to keep a server up are the ones paying double then "something" changes and they've got a license to burn.

 

You can sell the license... or gift it to someone ... there are alternatives of course and it isn't rage inducing- just seems like a mild slap in the face for the people who are hosting.

 

I'm hoping that it works more like a module within the DCS World environment as it does now. If your server is running one of a selection of maps then players need to also have that map. I would be surprised if it would suddenly transition back to the pre-DCSW days where you need two copies of it just to host a stand alone.

 

As for splitting your audience... you're always going to do that- whether it's with your maps, your missions, your abundance of aircraft to fly or the lack thereof. It'll be realism... it'll be flights to and from the target area... available or absence of both.

 

The community divides at every turn... you'll appeal to a niche group of guys and this will change all the time. I think even at its peak we seldom had more than 12-15 guys in the FH- and it ran 24-7. Loyalty and numbers only lasts so long as you're doing what someone wants- when they get bored with that, more often than not they're gone and others will come looking for what you're selling. :)

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i think you will find that there will be a good mix of maps.

 

when the NTTR comes out, the free to play people will continue to enjoy the price of their product.

 

the Black Sea area will continue to be the main map as the NTTR may have some massive multiplayer limitations. I see the NTTR map as being a training / co-op area.

 

I KNOW i'm going to have a lot of trouble enjoying a SU-33 landing on Kuznetsov in the middle of a dam / lake ? that probably wont work.

 

 

Hello server owners / players

 

I am currently hosting a server on DCS 1.2 and soon 1.5.

My server is designed like a place for everyone to come, experiment the game, practice and have fun.

I have a lot of newcomers/free-to-play players and also a lot of DCS passionates.

 

However, I am wondering how I will handle the new Nevada map and later the other theaters of war that will be released.

 

I guess you won't be able to join a nevada server if you didn't buy the nevada.

Thus, I fear it means I have to drop part of my players ; the newcomers/free-to-play players if I switch to Nevada or the DCS passionates if I stay with Georgia.

I am also wondering if any public servers will remain for newcomers or free-to-play players to play on.

 

So, that's pretty much my dilemma :cry:

 

I would like to have your opinion, see what people thinks and also what server owners think they will do...

 

I love the concept of having new maps, I am just wondering how it will affect the servers and the community.

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I KNOW i'm going to have a lot of trouble enjoying a SU-33 landing on Kuznetsov in the middle of a dam / lake ? that probably wont work.

 

I managed to put a carrier on a lake (the one near tsibili) and it's working in single player :)

However, in multiplayer, the carrier seems to be under the lake :megalol:

Mirknir

My old server:

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Yeah its not synced. Wasn't sure how they would respond if I filed a bug report by spawning the Tico on the Inguri Dam Reservoir.

The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world.

Current Projects: Scripting Wiki, Something...

Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread), SLMOD, IADScript, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum

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To the OP, I believe your concerns are valid, the current Beta has fragmented the community in a short time due to the lack of (stable) multiplayer servers on the OB. Seperate maps will also have some impact, however I'm hoping it will be offset by renewed interest and some very real choices, as well the community has been great to adapt and fill in with things like Blue Flag emmerging as technical victories, sxo no doubt instead of servers that are all set in Georgia trying to be different and not doing so well, you will have more choice. Hopefully ;)

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To the OP, I believe your concerns are valid, the current Beta has fragmented the community in a short time due to the lack of (stable) multiplayer servers on the OB. Seperate maps will also have some impact, however I'm hoping it will be offset by renewed interest and some very real choices, as well the community has been great to adapt and fill in with things like Blue Flag emmerging as technical victories, sxo no doubt instead of servers that are all set in Georgia trying to be different and not doing so well, you will have more choice. Hopefully ;)

 

While thats true, we have also seen an influx of new forum members, while this might not translate into new players, perhaps they were playing MP before and just never joined the forum, as well people from the past are returning, all these improvements will bring back old players, and new ones. Nothing you can do about what new content does, some will want to fly the A-10, some will want to duke it out in a P-51.

 

As for the map license thing, all we can do is wait and see what they have planned. ED isnt ignorant, they know what it takes to host, they know dedicated servers and tools are important. Lets see what they come up with. My hope is the dedicated tools will be able to run new maps without a key, but only time will tell. Lets help get NTTR polished and in full release so c0ff can focus on stuff like netcode and dedicated servers :)

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I honestly think that is the best idea.

 

Server should be able to host whatever mission or map entirely CD-KEY free in regards to any map or module.

 

Only clients connecting to play should need relevant modules and / or maps.

 

Im quite sure we ll see plenty of georgian servers remain, i for one arnt really interested in Nevada. Would rather some middle eastern region or far east region. There is plenty room for a variety of servers.

 

As soon as 2.0 is released properly (not alpha or beta but proper full release) i can see most people upgrading and there being no division in that regard.

 

Just in an awkward transitional phase that on long run will be much better for DCS. This release with oculus support for example has also really gotten me interested in the sim again and back in the cockpit of the KA 50 and Mig 21, as well as picking up the Mirage. Even got me and my friend considering finally joining a squadron after 2 or 3 years.

 

so yes onwards and upwards!

V.O.D.K.A. Squadron: Northern Wolves - Red ones go faster!

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As for the map license thing, all we can do is wait and see what they have planned. ED isnt ignorant, they know what it takes to host, they know dedicated servers and tools are important. Lets see what they come up with. My hope is the dedicated tools will be able to run new maps without a key, but only time will tell. Lets help get NTTR polished and in full release so c0ff can focus on stuff like netcode and dedicated servers :)

 

This sounds promising and I hope your wishful thinking comes true, Sith. We have had some discussion about the DoW server and the plan going forward and I do share the sentiment that the hosting machine should not be required to purchase a license per map if it is only used to host missions for a squad or the community. The real dream would be a true server front-end optimized for hosting without any rendering or unnecessary overhead. These are exciting times for sure.

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And Nevada isn't the end of the world - later there will be the hormuz map and the Normandy map, letherneck will bring a map too - so this fragmentation will become normality. We will see more specific server :

wwii server

Red flag

Carrier ops

Middle East tank buster

Caucasus pole racing and acrobatics

Some day maybe vietnam or Korea

 

I don't think it will be a problem at all

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And Nevada isn't the end of the world - later there will be the hormuz map and the Normandy map, letherneck will bring a map too - so this fragmentation will become normality. We will see more specific server :

wwii server

Red flag

Carrier ops

Middle East tank buster

Caucasus pole racing and acrobatics

Some day maybe vietnam or Korea

 

I don't think it will be a problem at all

 

I can see a dedicated WWII map and assets being huge as that demographic is the single biggest divide from all other MP combat. Dividing the relatively small numbers of available modern combat pilots between potentially 3 different maps isn't going to go smoothly. Its a concept that still largely favors a single player mindset. Like NTTR will probably great for the Red Flag campaigns that accompany it. However since I spend the majority of my flight time in MP (at altitude), with my SP being mostly for looking for changes between patches, NTTR doesn't do a whole lot for me. So I'm certainly not in rush to pay potentially $50 a pop, for something IMO is less functional (combat area). Yeah I'll likely get them eventually on sale, unless more superficial reasons "force" me to ahead of that. Like trying to maintain my position on the SA-SIM leader board.

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I see your point, but was I was trying to say was, we are at the beginning of big change. This is always a problematic moment.

The NTTR is not the map for wwii pilots or mig jokeys - it's for the A-10 pilots (in general)

Everybody prefers a special type of planes and time frames - and in the future, everyone of us will find the map for his favorite plane.

If I love the Sabre then I want a 50's Korea map - some day we will get one! But a (only) A-10 pilot will not buy it.

 

 

Until now we all have had to fly on the Caucasus - but since a week we have the choice

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