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Can the pressure and temperature change the missile range?


Vitormouraa
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Hello,

 

 

In combat, the altitude for missiles are really important, and it changes a lot the missile range.

 

My question is: Can the pressure and temperature change the missile range?

 

Other question: Why some missiles have problems to 'find' targets at ground level? I was testing the effectiveness of R-33 (MiG-31 Missile, long range missile, AA-9 Amos) and it's almost impossible shoot down a F-15C at ground level, it goes to the ground or loses the lock. Why does this happen?

 

 

Thanks


Edited by Vitormouraa
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The reason missile range increases due to altitude is decreased air density, which is affected both by pressure and temperature. So a change in sea level temperature and pressure will have an effect on missile range at sea level.

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Hello,

 

 

In combat, the altitude for missiles are really important, and it changes a lot the missile range.

 

My question is: Can the pressure and temperature change the missile range?

 

Other question: Why some missiles have problems to 'find' targets at ground level? I was testing the effectiveness of R-33 (MiG-31 Missile, long range missile, AA-9 Amos) and it's almost impossible shoot down a F-15C at ground level, it goes to the ground or loses the lock. Why does this happen?

 

 

Thanks

Range is dramatically reduced at ground level due to much higher air density and hence higher drag.

 

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Other question: Why some missiles have problems to 'find' targets at ground level? I was testing the effectiveness of R-33 (MiG-31 Missile, long range missile, AA-9 Amos) and it's almost impossible shoot down a F-15C at ground level, it goes to the ground or loses the lock. Why does this happen?

 

 

Thanks

 

That depends, but it is likely due to it's terminal guidance radar not being very good in a look-down situation. Let me clarify, like the US AIM-120 the R-33 is guided by the launch vehicle's radar until it enters the terminal phase and goes "active". At that point it engages it's own radar to illuminate and find the target. The missile was designed to intercept high altitude, high-speed targets and my educated guess is that it's radar is simply not sophisticated enough to filter out ground clutter from very low flying targets.


Edited by OnlyforDCS

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That depends, but it is likely due to it's terminal guidance radar not being very good in a look-down situation. Let me clarify, like the US AIM-120 the R-33 is guided by the launch vehicle's radar until it enters the terminal phase and goes "active". At that point it engages it's own radar to illuminate and find the target. The missile was designed to intercept high altitude, high-speed targets and my educated guess is that it's radar is simply not sophisticated enough to filter out ground clutter from very low flying targets.

 

Yes. that makes sense. When I'm using AMRAAMs I like to climb, high altitudes and then, fire the missile, it's range increases a LOT. Use the TacView, fire the missile at ground level, then, climb to 43k feet~, there's a big difference.. :smilewink: the R-33 has problems to intercept targets at ground level, it's simply CAN NOT intercept, also the R-40R, so, if there's a MiG-31 behind you, go to ground level, fast and low, he can't catch you. haha! :megalol:

 

Thanks for the answers!

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Hello,

 

 

In combat, the altitude for missiles are really important, and it changes a lot the missile range.

 

My question is: Can the pressure and temperature change the missile range?

 

Other question: Why some missiles have problems to 'find' targets at ground level? I was testing the effectiveness of R-33 (MiG-31 Missile, long range missile, AA-9 Amos) and it's almost impossible shoot down a F-15C at ground level, it goes to the ground or loses the lock. Why does this happen?

 

 

Thanks

 

Temperature changes Mach number. When it's cold, Mach 1 may be 600 knots. When it's hot, Mach 1 may be 650 knots. If a missile is designed to fly around an optimal Mach number, this can change its performance.

 

Pressure changes the efficiency of the rocket nozzle as max efficiency is gained when the exhaust equals the outside air pressure. The lower the air pressure, the more efficient the rocket can be, although this is limited by the size of the nozzle, so in practice there might only be one optimal air pressure value.

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That depends, but it is likely due to it's terminal guidance radar not being very good in a look-down situation. Let me clarify, like the US AIM-120 the R-33 is guided by the launch vehicle's radar until it enters the terminal phase and goes "active". At that point it engages it's own radar to illuminate and find the target. The missile was designed to intercept high altitude, high-speed targets and my educated guess is that it's radar is simply not sophisticated enough to filter out ground clutter from very low flying targets.

 

Considering that the MiG-31's Zaslon radar/R-33 missile combo was designed to intercept low flying cruise missiles in addition to high altitude bombers, its likely due to the sim not being very good at representing the MiG-31's capability in look-down situations :D

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JJ

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Like is said it depends on the situation at hand, and how well the Mig31 radar is simulated, however where did you find the info that the R-33 missile was designed to intercept low flying cruise missiles?? I haven't even seen any tests where it is fired at cruise missiles? Maybe you are thinking of one of the later variants, but do you have a source?


Edited by OnlyforDCS

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...however where did you find the info that the R-33 missile was designed to intercept low flying cruise missiles??

 

How could you possibly miss it? :)

 

Maybe you are thinking of one of the later variants..

 

No I'm not - as a successor to the MiG-25, one of the main requirements for the development of the MiG-31 in general and its weapon's system in particular was exactly the ability to intercept small low flying targets(such as cruise missile) in addition to high altitude bombers. :) .

 

As for a source on the R-33 - this is the manufacturer's page:

 

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/510/

JJ

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How could you possibly miss it? :)

 

 

 

No I'm not - as a successor to the MiG-25, one of the main requirements for the development of the MiG-31 in general and its weapon's system in particular was exactly the ability to intercept small low flying targets(such as cruise missile) in addition to high altitude bombers. :) .

 

As for a source on the R-33 - this is the manufacturer's page:

 

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/510/

 

Thanks. Look at the target engagement altitudes though: It goes from 50 m, up to 25km. What if the target is below 50m?

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Thanks. Look at the target engagement altitudes though: It goes from 50 m, up to 25km. What if the target is below 50m?

 

Well then it probably won't be able to intercept it :)

 

Mind you, I don't know how feasible it would be for a land attack cruise missile to fly below 50 m to terrain - such weapons are usually following a pre-planned route through a series of waypoints and use terrain recognition to navigate, the accuracy of which depending on the quality of the planning maps at hand and terrain diversity along the route. The lower the altitude the higher the risk of colliding with terrain or "man made" objects(known or unknown) due to navigation errors.

JJ

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Agreed, but a fighter could fly at 50 m and stand a pretty good chance of evading the missile.

 

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