A-10C TGP display: Targets hard to see

[LeCuvier]

Because it makes the textures look like crap hence why they are working on it

I'm happy if they improve the sim, but then the FLIR/TGP implementation should be improved first so it is sensitive to the heat signature and ground targets can be detected. As long as that hasn't happened I use the mod so I can find my targets.

[Enduro14]

I'm happy if they improve the sim, but then the FLIR/TGP implementation should be improved first so it is sensitive to the heat signature and ground targets can be detected. As long as that hasn't happened I use the mod so I can find my targets.

 

I agree and hopefully that Easter egg in the dlc campaign about improved suite for a10c comes true that would I hope solve many of the problems.

[EasyEB]

Jan 29 ED newsletter promises new FLIR.

[Enduro14]

thank god and in the mean time use a ground texture mod or go +8 on gain and + 6 ish on level in tgp and you will be better off in 1.5

[CoBlue]

Jan 29 ED newsletter promises new FLIR.

As I understand it.

The new FLIR is promised for 2.0. only.

"DCS World 2.0 in 2016 will offer new clouds and weather effects; improved HDR; deferred lighting (more light sources); new FLIR system"

 

1.5 Caucasus won't get it for another year, since the merge of 1.5 into 2.0 is not a priority this year, see Wags post: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2661528&postcount=208

[Gliptal]

GG putting such a feauture behind a paywall. Fortunately I do have NTTR, but still.

[BaconSarnie]

GG putting such a feauture behind a paywall. Fortunately I do have NTTR, but still.

 

Yeah, terrible that they arent gonna bother updating the current free Caucuses map to be part of 2.0 isnt it

 

Oh wait a minute.........

[Gliptal]

If it's not coming in a year time, I'd honestly flag the new FLIR simulation as being behind a paywall. This will obviously change as soon as they merge everything.

[tintifaxl]

Yeah, terrible that they arent gonna bother updating the current free Caucuses map to be part of 2.0 isnt it

 

Oh wait a minute.........

 

All the training missions, stock campaigns and a few payware campaigns are on this map. Even if Caucasus will not be integrated into 2.0 this year, they surely will at least make the FLIR working like it did in 1.2. :)

[killerwhale]

why aren't they fixing this? are they even aware of it? it makes playing the A10c useless

[Blooze]

The only way to fix it in 1.5 would be to re-do the terrain textures. Everything works fine in NTTR.

[Swordfish]

Starting to feel like 2.0 and NTTR is the only priority atm, despite dev blogs etc. I am also starting to feel that people are expected to run NTTR to fix issues that should really be fixed despite theatres.

Another solution is to run a Terrain mod, such as Desert 3.0, which is fantastic. It does not totally solve the problem, but it does help.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Swordfish

[Swordfish]

All the training missions, stock campaigns and a few payware campaigns are on this map. Even if Caucasus will not be integrated into 2.0 this year, they surely will at least make the FLIR working like it did in 1.2. :)

 

 

Im not gonna hold my breath for this tbh. NTTR is not really appealing to me.

[joey45]

why aren't they fixing this? are they even aware of it? it makes playing the A10c useless

 

The terrain is being converted to the new format ready for 2.0.

 

No point in fixing something only for it to be rendered [no pun intended] obsolete in a few months.

[Boris]

The terrain is being converted to the new format ready for 2.0.

 

No point in fixing something only for it to be rendered [no pun intended] obsolete in a few months.

 

I think the map in 1.5 is already the new format and the reason it's not merged with 2.0 and Nevada yet, is because Nevada is still in alpha.

[sobek]

I think the map in 1.5 is already the new format and the reason it's not merged with 2.0 and Nevada yet, is because Nevada is still in alpha.

 

Nope.

[sobek]

why aren't they fixing this?

 

They are working on it but it's a big task.

[Evil.Bonsai]

The only way to fix it in 1.5 would be to re-do the terrain textures. Everything works fine in NTTR.

 

Same issue with NTTR. I placed some BTRs on one of the few green spots on the map, couldn't see them at all. The trees were more prominent than the vehicles.

[sobek]

The only way to fix it in 1.5 would be to re-do the terrain textures. Everything works fine in NTTR.

 

That's not the only way. The best way to fix it would be to use separate heat textures to render the IR view. That means skinning everything twice, or even more often when seasons come into play. Suffice to say, there's a lot of work involved.

[spazmo]

Surely they could just create some basic IR textures/skins for vehicles that aren't visible unless you're using FLIR. They wouldn't have to reskin the terrain, just keep the current implementation but show the glowing IR textures on vehicles when looking through FLIR.

 

I'm trying to learn the A10C and I'm *really* struggling with it because I can't find any targets.

Edited February 12, 2016 by spazmo

[Gliptal]

Surely they could just create some basic IR textures/skins for vehicles that aren't visible unless you're using FLIR. They wouldn't have to reskin the terrain, just keep the current implementation but show the glowing IR textures on vehicles when looking through FLIR.

 

I'm trying to learn the A10C and I'm *really* struggling with it because I can't find any targets.

Retexturing every vehicle with a heat map isn't that easy, and the way the TGP "reads" the textures has to be changed as well. I can't be certain obviously, but right now it seems like FLIR simply shifts the image to tones of grey, the luminance of which depends on the color of the shifted texture: this would explain for example the green camoed vehicles being visible in NTTR (desert background), glowing treetops (dark green over terrain), and road stripes (white over dark grey).

 

The reason it worked fine before, is that an object like a tank has a given amount of noise in its textures, due to the different shapes it is composed of and the textures being slightly different for each shape. What ED did with 1.5, to make the terrain look better while flying and in screenshots, is they ramped up a gain coefficient that controls the amount of texture noise randomly added to the terrain.

 

There's a very simple and basic information theory result that says that a signal (the tank) embedded in a host (the terrain) becomes less and less visible the more their noises' functions tend to the same amplitude. In layman's terms

1.2: objects with high noise, ground with low noise -> objects are visible

1.5: objects with high noise, ground with high noise -> objects are masked

 

This explains both why reverting that gain to 1.2 levels (i.e. 0.5) brings back the old visibility (and murky terrain), and why custom texture packs show some effectiveness: they rely on actual high quality work more than the default ones, that instead mainly use noise to fake the minute details from afar.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for a change in this paradigm, since ED is pretty busy pushing 2.0 right now, and fixing this would require a revamp of the engine itself. Which is probably what they should have done with 2.0 anyway, but it at least looks they have planned a new FLIR implementation. Whether it will end up being just a band aid is another matter entirely.

 

Still, it finds me baffled that such a core mechanic in one of their core modules was downright purposedly broken, just to then flag the issue as not being an issue because of development priorities. 2.0 is the edge (pun intended) of their development process, and should not be taking dev time from fixing what they ended up breaking in what is now the stable 1.5. They clearly knew this would become a problem (there's no way internal QA didn't notice the TGP basically becoming useless overnight), and yet here we are.

 

This is like me repainting your living room and leaving stains all over the furniture, but refusing to clean them up because I'm busy repainting your garage, that is constantly dirty anyways because it's where you do your DIY. If the metaphor makes any sense.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Gliptal

[sobek]

Surely they could just create some basic IR textures/skins for vehicles that aren't visible unless you're using FLIR.

 

Clearly you forget how many vehicles are present in DCS. :)

[whaaw]

Guys i dont know if this is posted here somwhere else but with Yourgons temporary lua adjustment FLIR is much better on my install

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2620174#post2620174

 

also does the job on 2.0

Edited February 12, 2016 by whaaw

[Swordfish]

Guys i dont know if this is posted here somwhere else but with Yourgons temporary lua adjustment FLIR is much better on my install

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2620174#post2620174

 

also does the job on 2.0

 

Yes, it does work pretty well.

 

I am using the Desert 3.0 pack and have noticed that the IR modes are reveresed, I think due to the colour change of the ground units.

For examples BTR have desert hull and black tires in WHOT mode, Hull is dark, tires are white. In BHOT mode, Hull is white and tires and black. I have better results just using CCD now, with high MFD resolution.

I feel that the IR modes just swap Colours rather than having a form of dedicated heat map, so dark appears light and light dark, I also see this from terrain. A are of terrain suddenly becomes bright or dark in BHOT or WHOT depending on its texture or colour, which makes no sense.

[AnthonyD5189]

While that does help I don't think it's addressing the actual issue here.

 

The issue isn't the visible contrast between vehicle and terrain. With camouflage they should be hard to spot. The problem is with the FLIR not working at all. If I go black hot on the FLIR...the trees show up darker than any vehicle. The trees should be the same color as the ground(more or less), and only things that are actually hot showing up black(vehicles, fires, etc).

 

As a newer player I find it next to impossible to get anything done without having labels on because I can't find targets.