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INS Alignment speed


Zakatak

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So from what I've heard and seen, the current start up sequence is lacking the INS alignment procedure. I've also heard it quoted several times that this alignment can take up to 10 minutes. If this is true, and it has to be done on the ground, could you include a "quick align" option in the Special options menu for the Mirage 2000 which could reduce the time to, say, 1 minute?

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IIRC it takes 8 minutes in FSX. but you can fly without INS...

 

 

edit: For devs. If you add that, please make such "Unrealistic option" can be restricted by mission settings. It might affect mission designs and balances...


Edited by Cantiga
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Im all for INS alignment being fully simulated as far as a cold start is concerned.

 

Reason being this makes the quick start up time of something for example like the MIG-21 actually really useful, and simulates how quickly such aircraft can actually get off runway in the real world.

 

The Black Shark has INU alignment time of three minutes, and honestly that isnt too long when running a mission from a cold start.

 

As said above this can drastically alter mission design and potentially multiplayer balance if i think about it (havnt played enough of it myself, so thats a purely logical extension of the above arguement)

 

So yes if included, definitely a selectable option that has no effect outside of single play.

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The French "air police" mission requier that the mirage 2000 must be able to take off in less than 10 min

 

"la mission des pilotes dijonnais et de leurs mécaniciens consiste à faire décoller en moins de 7 minutes de jour, en moins de 15 minutes la nuit"

___

"the mission of Dijon pilotes and their mechanicians is to take off in less than 7 minutes during the day, in less than 15 minutes at night"

 

src (in french): http://www.bienpublic.com/cote-d-or/2011/03/15/les-mirage-ont-repris-l-alerte-depuis-les-pistes-de-longvic

 

Maybe that is a clue about the INS setup ?

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Normal alignment procedure is 8mn.

Quick alignment procedure (memorized heading = the plane didn't move since shut down) is 4mn.

 

Both procedure are available in FSX, so I bet we'll have them in DCS eventually.

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Normal alignment procedure is 8mn.

Quick alignment procedure (memorized heading = the plane didn't move since shut down) is 4mn.

 

Both procedure are available in FSX, so I bet we'll have them in DCS eventually.

 

This would be great, I hope so. :)

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Full alignment takes 8 minutes.

"Memory" alignment, takes 4.

 

INS Alignment is only required for cold start in the ramp. For hot starts, either in the runway or in the air, the INS will be already aligned at mission start.

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Im all for INS alignment being fully simulated as far as a cold start is concerned.

 

Reason being this makes the quick start up time of something for example like the MIG-21 actually really useful, and simulates how quickly such aircraft can actually get off runway in the real world.

 

The Black Shark has INU alignment time of three minutes, and honestly that isnt too long when running a mission from a cold start.

 

I think I read around here that the real one needs 30 minutes alignment. It was reduced in-game.

 

And if you want to simulate "how quickly such aircraft can actually get off runway in the real world" you have to consider that they don't have to wait for INS. If they're on alert, they will stay powered and basically only need to start the engine. If they're not, they'll probably be prepped by ground crew before the pilot arrives and is strapped in.

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This would be an nice little option to have, akin to those available on some realistic airliner add-ons available for FSX and P3D.

 

Also like cmbaviator said, the alignment of any INS depends on your lattitude (among other factors). I don't imagine it would be any different for the M2000.

 

The alignment essentially figures out the accelerations that the aircraft is undergoing (due to the Earth's rotation), in order to figure out its geographic location, provided you have given it a reference position. There's quite a lot of complex mathematics behind it which you can read up on, but in general, the alignment will take longer the further away from the equator you are.

 

It would be interesting to test whether this is modelled in DCS by comparing the alignment times in the Caucusus region to, say, the Strait of Hormuz (when it's released :smilewink:).


Edited by Ranbi2Delta

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  • 2 years later...

And 3 years later...

 

.... actually if I well understand, we can align the INS of 3 manners:

- full ALN / full time

- "quick" ALN with a stopped ALN (standard alignment, but without waiting the end of all 4 phases, at the expense of some precision)

- ALCM

 

Does ALCM actually works in a cold start?

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And 3 years later...

 

.... actually if I well understand, we can align the INS of 3 manners:

- full ALN / full time

- "quick" ALN with a stopped ALN (standard alignment, but without waiting the end of all 4 phases, at the expense of some precision)

- ALCM

 

Does ALCM actually works in a cold start?

 

No, ALCM will work on an already aligned INS, like after rearm of after a QRA standby period.

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

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Thank you! By X nm/h, you mean an imprecision of X between the real coordinates and the coordinates that the INS displays? (That should finally not be a problem for prepared waypoints, because they are still exact because relative of our start position, but only problematic for absolute coordinates entered during flight)

 

OR, you mean by X nm/h a drift per hour of X nm? (Wich would be curious to differ, as I thought the ALN phase goal was to calibrate the lat./long. coordinates?)

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Ok!! (I mean "curious" because I tought the drift of such system should be a constante, not a variable depending of how many time we took to calibrate it!!)

The calibration process calibrates the gyroscopes to get aligned with the rotation of the earth, so that they show no movement when the plane stands still on the ground even though the ground itself (the earth) moves (rotates in space). So, a shorter and less precise alignment still shows greater movement on the ground than a longer and more precise alignment.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't mind that they wanted to shorten this process, but ELIMINATE IT? Instead of just removing a large portion of the realism in starting a Mirage, they just added a checkbox that says "DO MAGIC START UP". Why not simply shorten it to 3-4 minutes, thereby largely keeping the startup sequence intact?

 

The only reason you'd need to skip INS alignment is if you don't care about realism and prefer "Air-Quake" which everyone seems to agree is an unfortunate part of DCS.

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I don't mind that they wanted to shorten this process, but ELIMINATE IT? Instead of just removing a large portion of the realism in starting a Mirage, they just added a checkbox that says "DO MAGIC START UP". Why not simply shorten it to 3-4 minutes, thereby largely keeping the startup sequence intact?

 

The only reason you'd need to skip INS alignment is if you don't care about realism and prefer "Air-Quake" which everyone seems to agree is an unfortunate part of DCS.

 

You already can shorten it to 4 minutes, and that's realistic.

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

Helljumper's Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

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  • 1 year later...
I don't mind that they wanted to shorten this process, but ELIMINATE IT? Instead of just removing a large portion of the realism in starting a Mirage, they just added a checkbox that says "DO MAGIC START UP". Why not simply shorten it to 3-4 minutes, thereby largely keeping the startup sequence intact?

 

The only reason you'd need to skip INS alignment is if you don't care about realism and prefer "Air-Quake" which everyone seems to agree is an unfortunate part of DCS.

 

I get your sentiment, but staring at a clock for 10 minutes is not my idea of fun. It's not all about "air quake". Some of us want to enjoy different parts of the simulation more than others. Following your logic, they should get rid of air-starts too...

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