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Taking off with the K4 in DCS 2.0


louisv

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I am guessing the flight models of 2.0alpha might be coming from an older version of DCS than 1.5.x. We will have to wait for the merge to get the improvements from 1.5 in 2.0.


Edited by ElGringo

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Not lock the tailwheel? Wow, that sounds like it'd make for a wild ride! What's the benefit of leaving it unlocked, in this case?

 

 

 

Shouldn't the stick be to the left, rather than the right? You know, to boost the rudder with adverse yaw?

 

It was a kind of black humor... but if you got able to perform this kind of takeoff all other kinds seem easy for you.

Anyway, having full power in all planes without steering wheel increases the steering power of the rudder, and you have more room to breaks from the centerline you can correct without using brakes and less time to balancing in the instable plane at low speed.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Also, if I takeoff with the tailwheel unlocked, than I am really forced to use some taps on the toe brakes before the aircraft gains sufficient speed and the tail surfaces become live.

 

I also think that we ever get different ground physics to be able to takeoff from grass, soild, etc... than probably taking off from such surfaces instead of from paved runways will be easier with the tailwheel unlocked ...

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@Yo-Yo: I had problems taking off in the K-4 when transiting to 2.0. Then I noticed that takeoff assistance was set to 100% by default. I remember this from when I first got it as well. As it is an assist, wouldn't it be better to have it off by default since it does more harm than good?

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This is unecessary in the 109. This won't lock your tail or make your aircraft fly straighter.

 

EZPZ takeoff is

 

Prop pitch 12 o'clock

full right rudder

slowly advance the throttle to 1.2 ATA. Your engine should run no higher than 2500 RPM in this configuration

keep using rudder as needed

the aircraft will literally fly itself off the ground. I don't even trim nose up or down or use flaps.

 

exactly my process as well....

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@Yo-Yo: I had problems taking off in the K-4 when transiting to 2.0. Then I noticed that takeoff assistance was set to 100% by default. I remember this from when I first got it as well. As it is an assist, wouldn't it be better to have it off by default since it does more harm than good?

 

The problem is not in the assistant... the problem is in your excessive and unnecessary short-period input that conflicts with the assistant's attempts to maintain straight roll. :) I encounter the same situation from time to time and the only thing I notice is how my skill is grown... :) allowing me to takeoff without any headache.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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So you are basically saying: "leave the darn thing on and get better in the process"? :)

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So you are basically saying: "leave the darn thing on and get better in the process"? :)

 

Actually he's saying either let it do its work and stop interfering, or turn it off and learn to do it yourself.

 

Personally, I prefer the latter option. The 109 isn't too difficult to take off anyway.

 

It's also forced off on quite a few multiplayer servers.

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I don't use it. That is why I find it annoying that it is ON by default. :)

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Very hard...

 

Not enough rudder to counter balance the drift to the left on take off.

 

I have to use right brake on take off ? Is how they took off...on the brakes ? Or is it just beta ?

 

Also brakes are ridiculously sensitive. While taxiing there is almost no way to use them without a prop strike at 5 knots. As if there was nothing behind the pilot.

 

 

I do not know what they did to this AC in 2.0. All I do know is that no plane in the history of AC were this ridiculously stupidly hard to get off the ground.

None the less. I found the way to do it. Get rid of the assist!!! And just do what the pilot in that video tells you to do. No tail lock, no brakes, just full right rudder until you feel the plane start to float left and then let up a bit. Do not pull back on the stick but instead, let the plane float off of the runway. And then....stick forward a little because the plane will try to go straight up. It works every time.

Disregard the smoke issue. I saw the thread on it. I hope that they make it a lot less noticeable. Looks like its 2km long.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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If I do not use brakes, the plane flies right off the runway...something is wrong here, are everyone in this thread on DCS 2.0 without any cheats ?

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If I do not use brakes, the plane flies right off the runway...something is wrong here, are everyone in this thread on DCS 2.0 without any cheats ?

 

 

Can't speak for others, only my personal experience. But I absolutely could not take off at all with the Takeoff assist. The second I turned it off, I could manage a take off. And yes....the damn plane just wanted to go left like crazy and soon went out of control (because I had to tappety tap tap the right brake all the time) with it on. When I turned it off, the plane still wanted to go left but not nearly as hard. So what I do is (without the takeoff assist, Oh...It's in the special section of the options menu for the 109) I go full rudder right. As hard as I can go. If you aren't using rudder pedals, this would probably be next to impossible to manage. So anyway. Go full right rudder. Go full throttle and hold right rudder. The plane will still want to pull left and it will slightly. As you build up speed, you will feel the plane start to drift to the right, at the point you will let up on the right rudder

a little bit to stop the drift. You will also have the joystick pulled to the right a little so that when you leave the ground the plane doesn't tip left too much. You will feel the plane start to lift but don't do anything until you leave the ground. And then (this is what I do anyway) you will favor the right with the joystick while countering the planes tendency to go nose up. The whole thing is kind of like balancing a broomstick on your nose while juggling 4 balls. And if one thing goes wrong....you drop everything.

You need to watch the video of the German WWII pilot that's in the beginning of the FW190 forum threads. I kept having so many issues getting this thing off of the ground, reading everyone's advice (all very different) and getting overly frustrated, but after that pilot telling you how he took off, I learned how it was really suppose to be done. And it works. I believe that the DCS 190 and 109 don't not act as much like their real world counterparts as people would like to think. Mostly due to that video. The pilot makes several statements that are directly counter to what the DCS models do. But it's not reality, its a hobby. So you have to deal with it with the expectation that it's going to work the way it works and adapt to it. I really do not enjoy the German planes all that much. I just fly em from time to time to see if they've changed any of this stuff.

it's all personal preference.

 

And if you are having that streaming smoke issue. I get rid of that before take off too. I set the RPM at 1500 for about 10 seconds before I go full throttle. It gets rid of that smoke stream 99% of the time.

 

Hope I helped you.

 

Oh...and a last helpful hint. Make sure that you line up on the runway with the plane steering straight down the runway. If it is misaligned, you'll more than likely have problems if you are not too good at it. And you can also have the plane favor the right side of the runway so that you have some room when it drifts to the left at the start. A lot of the time, I find myself pretty close to the shoulder when the plane is starting to correct itself right again.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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if you want your plane to stay on the runway and not try to veer off, hold your stick back all the way with the tailwheel locked till you hit 150kph, the tail wheel will hold your plane strait, if you don't hold your stick back, the tail wheel won't have enough grip on the runway to help keep you strait, you will still need some rudder and differential braking to keep it strait, but its more than manageable.

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im not really understanding, why has take-off seemingly changed so much? is it the terrain's elevation? or was the flight model that incorrect? took me forever to learn how to take off and land before, i haven't had much free time, but i gave up trying on the kurfurst after three or four sessions last weekend trying to figure out how to take off (I was so pround of myself when i learned how to take off and land the 109 before, now all over again :( )

 

i thought i had assist off, but maybe i was mistaken. perhaps i should just take a break from WWII DCS and stick to flying 109s on cliffs and stalingrad until more patches come that might alter the flight model more. sigh with my time constrants i want to actually pull off a complete cycle - takeoff, shoot, and if live hopefully land when i sim. not just die repeatedly trying to get off runway. i've already cost the fatherland about 30 109s learning the first time through just on takeoffs (probably 70 trying to land lol). it was rewarding first time through, relearning second time will be tedious.

 

edit: myabe ill switch to dora if i have to go through this all over again, a peak at the dora forum and it seems it has had a little alteration as well seemingly to its FM. i own but have never flown it before.. are more changes expected to either aircrafts' FM? (assuming its an FM or physics update). i dont want to take a DCS WWII break quite yet, I want to give the spitfires some fodder when it comes out (rather, i wish to feed on spit souls while theyre still noobs)


Edited by zantron
typos

“The murder of a man is still murder, even in wartime.”

-Manfred von Richthofen

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May be you're just feeling the different atmospheric conditions? I haven't tried much Nevada yet, but I noticed the low pressure/high temperature day in the Huey quick mission. High Density Altitude days can really make an aircraft feel different.

 

S!

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May be you're just feeling the different atmospheric conditions? I haven't tried much Nevada yet, but I noticed the low pressure/high temperature day in the Huey quick mission. High Density Altitude days can really make an aircraft feel different.

 

S!

yeah thats is what im starting to think, 4600 or whatever at area 51 compared to near sea level along black sea...

“The murder of a man is still murder, even in wartime.”

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if you want your plane to stay on the runway and not try to veer off, hold your stick back all the way with the tailwheel locked till you hit 150kph, the tail wheel will hold your plane strait, if you don't hold your stick back, the tail wheel won't have enough grip on the runway to help keep you strait, you will still need some rudder and differential braking to keep it strait, but its more than manageable.

 

 

I will also do it this way from time to time. The only problem for me is that in some conditions, unlocking the tail wheel while barreling down the runway can cause the plane to suddenly want to move in a certain direction. For a beginner, it's really frustrating.

I just took the German pilot's advice who said (contrary to what the ED crew thought because they were a bit surprised when he told them) Just go full right rudder and gun it. No brakes, no tail wheel lock, no nothing. It works much better for me most of the time.

And it is harder in 2.0 for some reason. Took me several tries to get use to it again. But then, the ground handling of the P51 changed too. I ran off the apron taxiing to the runway because it seemed to get much more responsive. This isn't a complaint at all, I was just surprised.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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I will also do it this way from time to time. The only problem for me is that in some conditions, unlocking the tail wheel while barreling down the runway in certain conditions can cause the plane to suddenly want to move in a certain direction. For a beginner, it's really frustrating.

I just took the German pilot's advice who said (contrary to what the ED crew thought because they were a bit surprised when he told them) Just go full right rudder and gun it. No brakes, no tail wheel lock, no nothing. It works much better for me most of the time.

And it is harder in 2.0 for some reason. Took me several tries to get use to it again. But then, the ground handling of the P51 changed too. I ran off the apron taxiing to the runway because it seemed to get much more responsive. This isn't a complaint at all, I was just surprised.

 

What German pilot was that?

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What German pilot was that?

 

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144767

 

Have a look. Great video posted by Sith. It made me want to fly the 190 and 109 again.

This guy had some awesome input to these planes. I got a lot out of this interview. When I learned how he took off in these planes I ran to the M.E. and took off with no issues in both planes the first time.

Also.....he gave very valuable info on throttle settings, use of flaps, and landing, it was like finding a treasure chest.

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http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=144767

 

Have a look. Great video posted by Sith. It made me want to fly the 190 and 109 again.

This guy had some awesome input to these planes. I got a lot out of this interview. When I learned how he took off in these planes I ran to the M.E. and took off with no issues in both planes the first time.

Also.....he gave very valuable info on throttle settings, use of flaps, and landing, it was like finding a treasure chest.

 

Interesting. I guess different pilots preferred different methods. Most of the quotes I find are of German aces claiming the takeoff was not difficult provided you lock the tailwheel, and that most of the accidents on takeoff were the result of poor training and new pilots falling victim to the so called "Messerschmitt Corner".

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Just did a test, BF109 feels the same to to me on take off between 1.5.2 and 2.0.

 

Standard routine of: nose down trim, push the throttle to 1.4 ata with manual pitch at 12 o'clock, applying right rudder when starting to move, correcting with right rudder during roll when needed, getting the tail off the ground and building up speed on two wheels before gently pulling off.

 

Simple.

 

Landing at high speed with a broke engine after forgetting to set the prop to automatic is another issue :D

 

 

Edit: I still think it's far too pitch up happy though, but that topic has been done to death.


Edited by Buzzles
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Hi Buzzles

Don't you find that the K4 now seems to have less power when starting at 1.4 ata ? I have that feeling compared to the 1.5 version. :cry:

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