DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[BravoYankee4]

Well, now it makes more sense regarding the hints about a new visualisation/shaders etc.

[RaXha]

Well, now it makes more sense regarding the hints about a new visualisation/shaders etc.

 

Oh, yea i didn't even think about that part! :D

[Darkman]

 Viggen Pilot Interview

 

Viggen Pilot Interview

 

http://Http://www.milavia.net/specials/iv_viggen/

[spiddx]

Viggen Pilot Interview

 

http://Http://www.milavia.net/specials/iv_viggen/

 

Interesting stuff, thx for sharing. :thumbup:

[Stratos]

One question makes me think. All the interdictors I can think off like the Su-24, Tornado or the F-15E, are two seaters, how the AJS-37 single pilot manage to fly very fast at low level, navigate and use weapons all by himself?

Edited December 12, 2015 by Stratos
Spelling

[QuiGon]

Yeah, I'm also wondering:

The pilot workload on this bird seems pretty high. Two different sticks besides the flight stick to control weapons/radar. That sounds kinda dangerous, especially with the ground hugging philosophy in mind. There's a reason why comparable birds are all 2-seaters (Tornado, Su-24, F-111, F-15E).

[Custard]

One question makes me think. All the interdictors I can think off like the Su-24, Tornado or the F-15E, are two seaters, how the AJS-37 single pilot manage to fly very fast at low level, navigate and use weapons all by himself?

He's genetically engineered to have 4 arms.

[QuiGon]

Viggen Pilot Interview

 

http://Http://www.milavia.net/specials/iv_viggen/

 

Very very interesting read! Thx for sharing! :thumbup:

 

It gives some nice information on what to expect from the Viggen. It also states clearly that the difference between the AJ-37 and the JA-37 is pretty huge!

[mattebubben]

yea most ppl dont realise the big difference between the AJ-37 and the JA-37.

 

the AJ-37 is a 3rd generation "fighter"

 

Where as the JA-37 is a True 4th Generation aircraft.

[RaXha]

"Finally when the aircraft has reached its maximum allowed speed, close to 1500 km/h, the angle of attack is so low that the roll centre of the aircraft has moved up to your head. So when you roll your body swings away underneath you, while the head remains at the same position."

 

Sounds like a real rollercoaster ride! :D

[El Hadji]

One question makes me think. All the interdictors I can think off like the Su-24, Tornado or the F-15E, are two seaters, how the AJS-37 single pilot manage to fly very fast at low level, navigate and use weapons all by himself?

 

The idea was to put some of the workload onto a powerful (for it's time) computer and by doing so making a 2nd crewman unnecessary. In the case of Viggen this job fell on the CK37 (Centralkalkylator 37).

 

[ame]http://www.datasaab.se/Papers/Articles/Viggenck37.pdf[/ame]

 

Some more info:

 

http://www.datasaab.se/Bildarkiv/CK37/ck37_eng.htm

Edited December 12, 2015 by El Hadji

[QuiGon]

The idea was to put some of the workload onto a powerful (for it's time) computer and by doing so making a 2nd crewman unnecessary. In the case of Viggen this job fell on the CK37 (Centralkalkylator 37).

 

Yeah, but I'm especially worried about the missing HOTAS controls. There are two additional sticks beside the flight stick to control radar and missiles as far as I understand. That sounds extremly challenging (especially at low level) since you only have two hands.

[BravoYankee4]

Yeah, but I'm especially worried about the missing HOTAS controls. There are two additional sticks beside the flight stick to control radar and missiles as far as I understand. That sounds extremly challenging (especially at low level) since you only have two hands.

 

Certainly not a job for anyone :music_whistling:

 

But obviously situations like this was driving the development towards what we know today as a standard HOTAS setup.

 

And the best thing - soon we are able to try just how much stress that will put on you (whithout ending up as dead when we will be overloaded and smash in to the ground) ;)

[mattebubben]

well that second stick is only for controlling the RB-05A.

 

And the RB-05A does not use the radar or any other system.

 

and pilots would not (could not) control both radar or RB-05A at the same time.

 

So One solution would be having the same hotas (or keybinds) for both the radar and the RB-05A with a "toggle" between the two.

 

Lets say with the RB-05A selected the hotas / keys would operate the RB-05A and with The RB-05A unselected those controls would slew the radar / AGM-65.

 

I think this would be the most simple way of doing this while also making alot of sense.

 

And since one stick was on the right in the cockpit and one to the left in the cockpit you could not operate both while still "keeping a hand on the stick.

 

And operating one or the other would force you to switch one hand to the joystick and the other to the controll for either the radar or the RB-05A.

Edited December 12, 2015 by mattebubben

[El Hadji]

ending up as dead when we will be overloaded and smash in to the ground

 

Real case scenario with a AJ37 from F7 (radar training flight):

 

[ame]http://svfplhist.com/37/37070_shk_rapp.pdf[/ame]

[emg]

One question makes me think. All the interdictors I can think off like the Su-24, Tornado or the F-15E, are two seaters, how the AJS-37 single pilot manage to fly very fast at low level, navigate and use weapons all by himself?

Imo the AJ-37 is a lot closer to a Jaguar or Su-22 than a Su-24 (which is considered a medium bomber!) or Tornado on a deep penetration mission.

Mission-wise, you could even consider it as primarily an anti-ship missile carrier. Soviet amphib forces were a big threat.

Edited December 12, 2015 by emg

[Stratos]

Any kind of antirunway munition? That can be real fun.

[King_Hrothgar]

I assume it can carry some sort of general purpose bomb like the Mk.82. That would be your anti runway bomb.

[Custard]

I assume it can carry some sort of general purpose bomb like the Mk.82. That would be your anti runway bomb.

Is there any evidence of it ever actually carrying any legacy Swedish dumb munitions? If not I imagine we'll be limited to the Viggen's normal 120kg m/71 bombs.

 

Edit: specifically I mean the m/50 & m/56 HE bombs, were these still in stockpile in the '70s, '80s & '90s and could the AJ 37 even drop them? (ie: could the computer calculate an impact point for CCIP?)

Edited December 12, 2015 by Custard

[Stratos]

The idea was to put some of the workload onto a powerful (for it's time) computer and by doing so making a 2nd crewman unnecessary. In the case of Viggen this job fell on the CK37 (Centralkalkylator 37).

 

http://www.datasaab.se/Papers/Articles/Viggenck37.pdf

 

Some more info:

 

http://www.datasaab.se/Bildarkiv/CK37/ck37_eng.htm

 

Interesting read! Any idea If the computer can navigate the aircraft using the autopilot? Autothrottle, a powerful autopilot and some kind of TFR will be of grest help.

[Goblin]

Well, the weapons controller on the right hand console only controls the Rb05. The pilot usually had the aircraft on autopilot and attitude hold when delivering that weapon.

The radar controller is situated on the left hand console. The pilot only had to let go of the throttle for that one.

But no, it's not exactly HOTAS standard... ;)

[mattebubben]

The viggen did not really have any dedicated Anti-runway munitions since it was planned as a defensive aircraft.

 

As such it was supposed to stop enemy invasions over land or sea.

 

so the doctrine did not include deep strikes into soviet (russian) territory.

 

Wich any Airfield strike would have to be.

[renhanxue]

The autopilot (SA 06, where SA stands for "styrautomat") is capable of two modes:

 

- Attitude hold/course hold: press the button ATT to activate. If pitch angle is <60° and bank angle is >7° and <66°, maintains both as they are. If bank angle is <7°, the aircraft instead enters course hold mode and maintains current course at neutral bank. While in this mode, autopilot controlled turns can be commanded by using the trim button on the stick. The bank angle used by the autopilot depends on airspeed and ranges from 10° at 200 km/h IAS to 45° at 800 km/h IAS.

 

You can still control the aircraft in both pitch and roll axis while attitude hold/course hold is active, you just need to use some physical force to get the stick to move. If you do this and stay within the limits above, the aircraft will hold your new attitude when you let go of the stick. If you exceed the limits the autopilot will disconnect and enter a passive mode where it'll automatically reactivate once you get back within the limits.

 

 

- Altitude hold: press button HÖJD to activate. Works exactly like the previous mode but the aircraft will also maintain current barometric altitude. Adjusting the altitude is done with the trim button on the stick.

 

 

If you activate autothrottle with the landing gear in, it'll try to maintain 550 km/h IAS. You can't adjust that. It's really only intended for landing.

 

 

tl;dr: if you activate the autopilot in a reasonable situation and let go of the stick, the plane will keep doing what it's doing. If you move the stick and enter some new reasonable situation that you like better, the plane will keep doing that instead. Quite reasonable, I think. It can't follow waypoint routes for you, though.

Edited December 12, 2015 by renhanxue

[renhanxue]

Is there any evidence of it ever actually carrying any legacy Swedish dumb munitions? If not I imagine we'll be limited to the Viggen's normal 120kg m/71 bombs.

 

Edit: specifically I mean the m/50 & m/56 HE bombs, were these still in stockpile in the '70s, '80s & '90s and could the AJ 37 even drop them? (ie: could the computer calculate an impact point for CCIP?)

No, there are no provisions for any bombs other than 120kg frag bombs, 15 kg concrete practice bombs and 80 kg flare/illumination bombs.

[Goblin]

No, there are no provisions for any bombs other than 120kg frag bombs, 15 kg concrete practice bombs and 80 kg flare/illumination bombs.

 

Did have different fuses though. ÖHKSAR Ögonblickligt Högkänsligt Spets AnslagsRör=Immediate contact fuse and ZONAR Zon AnslagsRör=distance fuse for killing infantry and soft targets (daisy cutter).

 

But we must not forget the ARAK! :) 4 Rocketpods with 6 rockets each, all delivered in a 24 rocket volley.

 

The Viggen mostly relied on dumb weapons for A/G missions. Bomb and rocket truck. Sure, it could deliver even dumber ordinance as the Rb05 ;) or the half witted Rb75 TV Maverick.