DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[microvax]

I guess according to the info/speculation form this thread, the canard flaps only delpoy with gear out. So yeah, thats probably the reason.

[RaXha]

I guess according to the info/speculation form this thread, the canard flaps only delpoy with gear out. So yeah, thats probably the reason.

 

 

 

This is correct. They deploy the gear when doing the slow pass since it needs the canard flaps to be extended at those speeds. :-)

[WinterH]

I have seen NF-5 and F-16C perform in airshows and they too deploy landing gear for low speed passes often. In F-16's case I think it is because FLCS acts different with LG down and allows much greater AoA than normal. Not sure what the reason would bevin NF-5's case.

[Hummingbird]

Haven't seen the F-16 deploy the landing gear during slow passes yet myself. Normally they do it all cleaned up.

 

[WinterH]

I have seen with my own eyes in May 2012 :). It was a display by Solo Turk, though the aircraft did not sport usual flashy black & gold colors, it was apparently a backup aircraft in normal airforce gray. He did both wheels up and wheels down slow passes.

 

Unfortunately I only have a very crappy photo of wheels down flight :

 

I remember the pass was really slow and I was impressed back then that Viper could fly (mostly) level at that sort of speed.

 

Anyway, I digress, why are talking about F-16 here anyway, where's my Viggen? :D

[mattebubben]

 

There is a Viggen in this picture.

 

I think he is a few feet to high.

 

You can actually see him above the Snow Cover.

 

Have to talk to his commanding officer about that.

 

The proper flying altitude in winter for an attack viggen is when the External tank is half submerged in the snow.

Edited June 30, 2016 by mattebubben

[Hummingbird]

I have seen with my own eyes in May 2012 :). It was a display by Solo Turk, though the aircraft did not sport usual flashy black & gold colors, it was apparently a backup aircraft in normal airforce gray. He did both wheels up and wheels down slow passes.

 

Unfortunately I only have a very crappy photo of wheels down flight :

 

I remember the pass was really slow and I was impressed back then that Viper could fly (mostly) level at that sort of speed.

 

Anyway, I digress, why are talking about F-16 here anyway, where's my Viggen? :D

 

Never seen it myself, so I don't think it's a usual thing.

 

The F-16 doesn't have to lower its gear either, its flight control system deploys LE & TE flaps as needed based on speed & aerodynamic loads.

[Hummingbird]

 

There is a Viggen in this picture.

 

No no no, you've all misunderstood the picture!

 

See those two black dots right under the Viggen? Those are snow sleds! He's pulling special Swedish snow sled troopers!

 

:pilotfly::pilotfly:

[mattebubben]

No no no, you've all misunderstood the picture!

 

See those two black dots right under the Viggen? Those are snow sleds! He's pulling special Swedish snow sled troopers!

 

:pilotfly::pilotfly:

 

 

Basically its the Continuation of this.

 

[ame]

[/ame]
Edited June 30, 2016 by mattebubben

[Hummingbird]

Basically its the Continuation of this.

 

 

:megalol::megalol:

[RaXha]

Basically its the Continuation of this.

 

 

 

 

Correct, and that is a continuation of this:

 

[mattebubben]

Correct, and that is a continuation of this:

Correct, and that is a continuation of this.

[BravoYankee4]

I suppose this is where it all started...

 

And yes, this thread is now officially derailed (again) :thumbup:

[microvax]

best moderation measure would be AJS37 anoucement. )))

[robban75]

Spoke to a former JA 37 pilot(a friend of the family) about this half roll maneuver and he said it is tall tale and that he'd never dared to apply it in real life. He said the Viggen had better turn performance in comparison to the J 35 Draken or F-4 Phantom. Max allowable AoA for the JA 37 was 24 degrees, but it was possible to exceed this. During test flights 23 deg/AoA was performed with the engine at idle @ an alt of 11 km. This AoA performance can not be applied to the RM8A however. :)

[RaXha]

Somewhat on topic: Today is the 90th anniversary of the Swedish air force. :joystick:

 

[Darkman]

SAAB JA37 Viggen Solo Display(cockpit view)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I still don't get why they had all the symbology remaining level with the horizon. Pitch ladders sure, but altitude and speed?! Can't be easy to read when at extreme attitudes.

[robban75]

Love the acceleration at 7:47. From 400km/h to 600km/h in about 5 seconds. And from M 0.8 to M 0.9 in 4 seconds. :)

[mattebubben]

Also to note is that this is a JA 37 so it uses a different hud from the AJS 37 we are getting.

 

While some of the Symbology is the same most of it is different.

 

The JA 37 HUD is also wider (With a larger area being covered by the HUD Projection)

 

The AJ/AJS 37 has a hud that was developed in the 60s (and as such has a early HUD) where as The JA 37 entering service 10 years after the JA 37 in 1980 has a later more mature HUD developed in 70s and as such is a significant step up in most areas from the AJ/AJS 37s HUD.

 

Here is a Video that contains some short snippets of Footage showing the HUD we will be getting.

 

[ame]

[/ame]
Edited July 1, 2016 by mattebubben

[Darkbrotherhood7]

Also to note is that this is a JA 37 so it uses a different hud from the AJS 37 we are getting.

 

While alot of the Symbology is the same there are some distinct differences.

 

The JA 37 HUD is also wider (With a larger area being covered by the HUD Projection)

 

Here is a Video that contains some Footage of the HUD we will be getting.

 

 

Thanks for the video, Matt! :thumbup:

[mattebubben]

Here is a much better view of the Hud used on the AJ/AJS (and all other variants but the JA 37)

 

Its from the Swesim AJS 37 Simulator so it should be as accurate as can be.

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

As you can see its VERY different from the JA 37 Hud and obviously a much earlier type of HUD.

 

(The JA 37 is of the same Age as a F-16 or F-15C HUD where as the AJ/AJS 37 has a hud of the same era as the A-7 Corsair etc)

 

It still works and is a great tool (and a Significant step up since most aircraft of the era still had no HUD, hell the SU-25A entered service 10 years later and it still did not have a HUD)

but its best to not come in with the expectation of the HUD being comparable to 1980s aircraft and then be Disappointed.

Edited July 1, 2016 by mattebubben

[Hummingbird]

I actually dont think u understand either, do you really mean that the F-16 has comparable flight caracteristics with a canard fighter, the reason for them trying to implement the F-16 with doubledelta was to improve the region of high alfa manouvers on the F-16 XL with the better low-speed maneuverability. Programme was sucsessfull, but not implemented.

 

THAT is the reason for the viggen design (built for swedish STOL-req.), and it is without saying that this also gave the viggen extreme performance in this region of manouvers. On the expense of bleeding speed like a pig if u pulled into the manouver with to high alfa and high wingload on high speed Close Combat situation. Thats a death-sentence in close combat, speed or altitude must be saved for next manouver in the fight.

 

In a inverted split-S, speed is not a issue, its even a plus for viggen in that manouver, u could translate more of the energy into directional change, since u could easy stay within best parameters of the AC, no need to pull airbrakes, just bleed it of with tight turn.

 

F-16 was and is notorius for all slender aircrafts problem to bled of speed, good property in a substained turn in the horizontal plane and thats why F-16 a good fighter in close combat.

 

That manouver we are talking of was one of the viggen special tricks, back in the times, and it was important not to display that in public since they anticipated to need the manouver in war-times.

Im not at all doubting the manouver as explained, given also that its probable that its somewhat excessivley described, maybe it was more like 575m or so, or even 643m who could know, clear is that the Flagon-pilot is with me on this one, as a F-16 pilot also would have been in that situation. U can se the good STOL propertys in my video, and mind u know, u cant judge airspeed from the groudn like u implie i can, ESPECIALLY not from a granular youtubevideo. I can assure u, the landing speed and behaviur was lower/better on viggen, then F16. Irather to the inverted split-s in A-10 or T-28 trojan or skyraider, Mig-29 then the F-16. When i come to think abaout it, almost every plane out there, but just not the F-16.

 

We are debating something that cant be settled with studying charts and diagrams, and wont even be settled because the bias on both sides. Im just saying; i dont doubt it in principle, and the facts is, Viggenpilot tells the story, Flagonpilot shuts up and goes to valhalla...

 

F-16 is a remarkable AC, most likely to go into history for its properties and versatility, but STOL and low speed cornering is NOT one of the things that will be discussed in any lenght in the future in books written to tribute the F-16, to say that is almost like a:

 

Sorry but you've completely missed the boat on this one.

[Hummingbird]

Spoke to a former JA 37 pilot(a friend of the family) about this half roll maneuver and he said it is tall tale and that he'd never dared to apply it in real life. He said the Viggen had better turn performance in comparison to the J 35 Draken or F-4 Phantom. Max allowable AoA for the JA 37 was 24 degrees, but it was possible to exceed this. During test flights 23 deg/AoA was performed with the engine at idle @ an alt of 11 km. This AoA performance can not be applied to the RM8A however. :)

 

Yeah I expected no less :)

[RaXha]

 

Found a video i have not seen before. It's from swedish TV from 1996. One of the pilots they interview crashed his Viggen into the sea the week after the interview, unfortunately he did not live.

 

 

 

I also found a good video from an airshow of the AJS37. Not sure if it has been posten before, this thread is getting long. :P The commentator gives a nice summary of the viggens capabilities (both the AJS and the JA).

Edited July 2, 2016 by RaXha