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AV-8B Harrier Thread


Angelthunder

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lets be honest, there will be people using this like a helicopter doing popups behind hills :-D

And crashing...

 

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Shagrat

 

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Prowler, Zeus and any other RAZBAM staff, do you have any SME on board with supporting development on this wonderful bird. I am hoping you are able to duplicate the hover to climb flight @ 5:57 and the dark exhaust in its transition.

 

Aside from the lack of focus I am sure you get what is happening. My recording skills are sub-par, but not all that bad. :)

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Why are these not on Zues's youtube page?

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Zeus67/videos

 

Because those videos are made by Prowler111. He's working on the external model and helping with the texture maps.

 

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lets be honest, there will be people using this like a helicopter doing popups behind hills :-D

 

Not if modeled correctly. Hovering requires full power. For that the engines get cooled with water and it only lasts so long. The Harrier cannot hover for more than 90 seconds.

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Not if modeled correctly. Hovering requires full power. For that the engines get cooled with water and it only lasts so long. The Harrier cannot hover for more than 90 seconds.

Plus a weapons launch will "spontaneously" change weight distribution... From what I've heard you don't want an unbalanced Harrier in the hover! :D

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Not if modeled correctly. Hovering requires full power. For that the engines get cooled with water and it only lasts so long. The Harrier cannot hover for more than 90 seconds.

 

If operating conditions are such that the water is needed at the maximum cooling rate, there is only enough water available to remain in hover for about 90 seconds before the supply is exhausted. However, the aircraft rarely needs to use this cooling water at the maximum rate, and can therefore hover for considerably longer than 90 seconds.

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If operating conditions are such that the water is needed at the maximum cooling rate, there is only enough water available to remain in hover for about 90 seconds before the supply is exhausted. However, the aircraft rarely needs to use this cooling water at the maximum rate, and can therefore hover for considerably longer than 90 seconds.

 

not only that, everybody thinks the water is for pure cooling and this is not true, it cools the jet pipe just around 23-25C, wich allows for more RPM and that gives you more thrust. it is also for protecting the flaps.

 

the "wet" operation of the engine was strictly limited for situation you realy needed the extra thrust. but if you didnt need it you can hoover way longer than 90 sec

 

interresting post i found about this:

 

how can you increase an engine’s thrust by injecting water? At first glance, it seems an absurd thing to do. Well, it’s simple really, and there are three different ways of doing it:

 

1) Add the water at the front of the compressor

2) Add the water directly to the combustion chamber

3) Add the water immediately before the turbine section or just before the propelling nozzle.

 

Taking each one in turn:

 

1) Injecting water at the compressor face has the effect of lowering the temperature of the inlet air, (assuming the water is at a lower temp than the ambient temp, of course, but seeing as you will generally be using water injection on hot days, that's taken as read). Remember the old maxim of 'It's fookin' difficult to compress cold air and vladimir impossible to compress hot air' and you soon realise that lowering the inlet air temp allows you to get either:

a) the same level of pressure rise as before but from less power offtake or

b) more pressure increase for the same shaft power requirement.

Both of these effects give you greater thrust (via less power offtake or through higher pressure ratio respectively) but option 1b) is usually the one used. In a nutshell, you are fooling the engine into thinking the ambient temperature has suddenly gone down and gas turbines work best at low temperatures. Because you have lowered the inlet air temp then obviously you are lowering the compressor outlet temp as well. This allows you to add more fuel and gives you a greater delta t across the combustor. You are also putting more mass flow through your engine (because you've added the water and water is more dense than air), giving you greater thrust because thrust is directly related to mass flow. Additionally, you can utilise a water/ethanol mix if you so desire, with the ethanol being burnt in the combustor giving you even more bang.

 

From point 1b) you can see the problems that occur with gas turbines at high ambient air temperatures: Higher air temp = lower compressor efficiency = lower pressure ratio = less efficient combustion = lower resultant thrust because the turbine is using up all the available power to run the compressor = you ain't going nowhere.

 

2) Adding water directly to the combustion chamber is one for the theoretical physicists. What you are trying to do is induce blockage and temporarily reduce the volume of the chamber, thus increasing the pressure inside the combustion chamber as the efficiency of the combustion process is increased at higher pressure. It also has some other peculiar effects such as increasing the air flow speed which is not detrimental. This type isn't used much as it's difficult to model and understand and can lead to combustion instability, which is a bit of a bad thing

 

3) Adding water at the turbine face or just before the nozzle simply works by adding mass flow to the engine's exhaust thus giving you more stuff out the back = greater thrust.

 

Option 3 is the simplest and most straightforward whereas option 1b will most probably give you the greatest thrust increase. Sometimes you will get a water injection installation that gives you both compressor and nozzle injection to get even more increase at the expense of plumbing complexity.

If anybody ever says that water injection is for 'cooling the engine', just ask them exactly what a couple of gallons of water is supposed to do to a raging inferno at 1,200 degrees centigrade travelling at 200 meters per second. You should get a few blank faces in return...


Edited by whaaw

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2 questions,

- can this version make air refueling?

- how is damage modeling going? what may happen if we land hard?

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2 questions,

- can this version make air refueling?

- how is damage modeling going? what may happen if we land hard?

Yes, AV-8B have a refueling probe

Hard Landing=crash:cry:

 

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Yes, AV-8B have a refueling probe

Hard Landing=crash:cry:

 

lol, please model this as a crash animation, with the nosr falling off and everything

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2 questions,

- can this version make air refueling?

- how is damage modeling going? what may happen if we land hard?

 

Yes it technically can but I don't believe ED have or will be in a rush to make it possible for the Harrier. :cry:

Damage models are as I believe again massively influenced on ED's side (except animations, textures etc) so basically expect bugs like we see in almost all other jets so far :cry:

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Yes it technically can but I don't believe ED have or will be in a rush to make it possible for the Harrier. :cry:

Damage models are as I believe again massively influenced on ED's side (except animations, textures etc) so basically expect bugs like we see in almost all other jets so far :cry:

 

Where did you came up with that? Neither the A-A refueling nor the damage modeling is up to ED. They both rely on RAZBAM. ED only provides the framework and it already includes these things.

Check the Mirage (or other 3rd party modules), it has A-A refueling and a damage model and so will the Harrier.

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Air refueling is available in DCS. The problem is a lack of air tankers. So far the only available ones are the IL-76 and the S-3 with buddy stores.

 

We are looking to incorporate a KC-130 with the AV-8B NA but we need to discuss this with ED.

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