KotofeiIvanytch Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Implying that a a flight model is unrealistic because you have found a particular fault during a beta stage? Not really constructive criticism isn't it ? If you think the SU-27 is better implemented, why don't you fly it instead ? Ooooh! Because the Mirage 2000C is going to be a high fidelity module and requires much more work on : avionics, fuel system, flight model, navigation, radar... :smilewink: "...a serious question for the developers..." "because the FM is the fundamental part of a flight simulator (in my opinion)" ty Edited March 4, 2016 by KotofeiIvanytch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoYo Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Anything over and above the 2.0.1 update 1 changes we can expect in 1.5.4 today should ED post an update ? The new last digit concerns only the new module. Today no any new module so 1.5.3 will be present still + update perhaps (I hope too!). Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlaxoxo Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Here you all are arguing about a "Realistic" Flight models about mirage and other modules ... How about we take a step back and remember when Mirage could do this? [ame= ] [/ame] And realize the fact how awesome the Mirage feels now compared to it's release and how awesome it is and we don't even know what's in store for the future. So I'd recommend guys to relax, and switch a topic a bit and move from this black hole topic [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Youtube Reddit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alacc17 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 The new last digit concerns only the new module. Today no any new module so 1.5.3 will be present still + update perhaps (I hope too!).What new module was released with 1.5.1 or 1.5.2? )) фил фоба не слаще... ________________ i5-3570K, 24GB DDR3-1600, 6GB GTX1060, Win7x64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEULE Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Here you all are arguing about a "Realistic" Flight models about mirage and other modules ... How about we take a step back and remember when Mirage could do this? And realize the fact how awesome the Mirage feels now compared to it's release and how awesome it is and we don't even know what's in store for the future. So I'd recommend guys to relax, and switch a topic a bit and move from this black hole topic Wow, wait. You are saying Mirage isn't supposed to do that...? If I would like to fly SFM I could get it for free at World of Warplanes. You only need 2 of the following 3: Altitude - Speed - Skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Here you all are arguing about a "Realistic" Flight models about mirage and other modules ... How about we take a step back and remember when Mirage could do this? And realize the fact how awesome the Mirage feels now compared to it's release and how awesome it is and we don't even know what's in store for the future. So I'd recommend guys to relax, and switch a topic a bit and move from this black hole topic RAZBAM did a tremendous progress. People just dont wanna see that or just dont care. They dont realize that the other alternative is that Razbam would have kept the Mirage in their labs and release it in months from now. The bad news is that you will always have people like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 CptSmiley, just as a bit of an aside regarding #3 in some respects: Have you heard of radar dome imperfection effects on flight at high AoA? :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Yeah, I have to admit that dedication and communication of RAZBAM crew is quite amazing and inspiring. And thanks for detailed explanations, they are a pleasure to read. AMD R7 5800X3D | Aorus B550 Pro | 32GB DDR4-3600 | RTX 4080 | VKB MGC Pro Gunfighter Mk III + Thustmaster TWCS + VKB T-Rudder Mk4 | HP Reverb G2 FC3 | A-10C II | Ка-50 | P-51 | UH-1 | Ми-8 | F-86F | МиГ-21 | FW-190 | МиГ-15 | Л-39 | Bf 109 | M-2000C | F-5 | Spitfire | AJS-37 | AV-8B | F/A-18C | Як-52 | F-14 | F-16 | Ми-24 | AH-64 NTTR | Normandy | Gulf | Syria | Supercarrier | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0xDEADBEEF Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 CptSmiley, lots of respect for what and how you do! Thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjer Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Oh razbam... I loved you already for your work with the old SF2 intruder and your great fsx stuff - but the way you work, communicate and deliver here for DCS is just fantastic! Thanks for your decision to develop for DCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoYo Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Oh razbam... I loved you already for your work with the old SF2 intruder and your great fsx stuff - but the way you work, communicate and deliver here for DCS is just fantastic! Thanks for your decision to develop for DCS Id like to see Intruder in DCS, dreams, dreams, dreams.... Edited March 4, 2016 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 4090 24Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droopy114 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'm honestly glad people are finding these, and if we delivered with SFM first and without us going into beta with the EFM (that we knew was still a work in progress) it would have taken us so much longer to check all the different areas. With you all finding stuff so fast it's been so much quicker to improve upon. It is challenging me to make things better. My day job is actual flight trainers and it's hard for me to separate out that people at home with DCS want to do stuff training pilots would never ever do, even in flight trainers. It makes me happy that the issues being found are in extreme envelope and using the aircraft outside of its intended range, and I also strongly disagree such issues show a "fundamental" problem with the FM as a whole. Hopefully the next patch will have some good stuff for you. I was able to recreate the behavior and here are my findings and solutions: 1. The engine force was acting at the point of CG (even as CG changed!) this is not correct at all and it's now fixed to how it should be and acting at the point of the engine. With it acting at the CG the aircraft was way too balanced, especially in this maneuver where the engine is the primary acting force. 2. The engine is too efficient and shouldn't have been able to "breathe" in as much air in that kind of extreme situation. I added disturbance and efficiency loss to account for this, with a possible engine out situation if the mass flow isn't sufficient to maintain combustion. 3. The math is too perfect in the aerodynamics. In the real world so many small little interactions are at play. In this maneuver a pure elevator pull up the airframe stay perfectly balanced (with some small help from the FBW in spin mode) up to the point that the engine is holding up the airframe for a little while. In the real world the math isn't as perfect so I've added some disturbances to the surfaces when you get into a post stall extreme envelope situation to recreate that realistic imbalance. For #3 this is still going to require some tuning but I believe it to be a good replacement for high fidelity time history CFD that just isn't possible in a real-time simulator. I have some other ideas up my sleeve that I'm working up also Now go break the airplane! For sure you and your team (even the others 3rd party) are doing an amazing job, and I can finally enjoy a M-2000.... with a clickable pit, amazing for me because it always been my favourite aircraft....and I think people can't imagine the amount of work for doing this.... great com as always:thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KotofeiIvanytch Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) thanks to CptSmiley for quick response and high level customer service. i look forward to the upcoming improvements. but in future I prefer to make a difference concerning FM between DCS/Belsimtek and 3rd party developers. taht´s the reason: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2700464&postcount=2476 google translated: "...It should nevertheless be understood that external developers are in quite a difficult situation, they still fewer opportunities in the development and docking module to our world, and in testing. Therefore, we can not approach them with the same stringent requirements as to themselves..." with other words, DCS - 3d parties have not the same technical scope and "development tools" like the PFM inventors. i hope to get in near future additional 3dparty modules in special offer for equal dogfights EFM vs EFM (razbam vs veao vs leatherneck vs...) and separately still enjoy high PFM level in a divided DCS-World. Sorry to the other, if questions around the FM not seem very important, because in my opinion the FM is the fundamental part of a flight simulator since my first touchdown experience with the AFM Su-25. Edited March 4, 2016 by KotofeiIvanytch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWillis Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 As soon as issues are identified, they're checked out, and remedies found. The more we see and hear from RAZBAM, the more I am impressed. You're hitting the nail on the head here guys, and it is much appreciated. And yes, we'd love to see a RAZBAM Intruder. I have a feeling RAZBAM's involvement in DCS World is going to be long and very productive/profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHDT Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 "I'm honestly glad people are finding these..." Perfect attitude for a developer. Much much better than a developer taking observations in a bad way or not answering at all... Btw, the explanations are very interesting to hear for guys like me not knowing a lot in aerodynamics maths ! Thanks :-) PS: impatiently waiting for a Razbam A-7D (an interesting aircraft must have a gun for the pilot) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plushanubka Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 No patch today :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonium83 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 No patch today :( Yeah I'm very disappointed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Who said no patch post the link or it didn't happen Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonium83 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Who said no patch post the link or it didn't happen I said that by deduction, it's 6:30 p.m in France, I've always download the updates before 6:00 p.m and ED has published a newsletter 2 hours ago who talk about the sale continuation on the store but nothing about the sim, I hope I'm wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I wouldn't as they have not said yes or no yet via an update from wags. I'd be patient. Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonium83 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Yes, wait and see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harke Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2701028&postcount=212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plushanubka Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Soon™ :music_whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Razbam have consistently impressed me increasingly. It's just unusual. But Zeus and CptSmiley are exceptional chaps that are pushing the boundaries, its not since some of the stuff Yoyo has come out with that I've felt blown away like this. I'm convinced what you are watching is history being made in public flight simulations. OK, it's on ED's back and thats worthy, but engaging the public at this level and SPEED, is just unreal. Zeus holds some kind of unnatural record for coding a radar. Even with errors its unlike other stuff we have seen on the internet. Maybe I can be corrected, but this is my memory. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonium83 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Soon™ :music_whistling: I think that we doesn't have the same definition of "soon" than ED :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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