Removed

[Zodiac]

I agreed Razbam has the best communication with the community, and have a good, yet unfinished, product.

 

+1 def lots of work to be done still

[Rafo79]

2 years is in fact average dev time for how it was at release, do you know how much time does it take to create a DCS module ? Razbam have been very honest with their module dev and right now the M2000 is in very good shape :).

 

This is not constructive critisim so you might better keep it for yourself as it is against the rules.

 

Sorry dude but, that it's a complain from a customer not from a friend. I feel the same I love m2000 and when I saw this product I bought it immediately. Yes i knew that it was in beta but, since Razbam start the harrier project they only have excuses for not finishing the m2k.

[myHelljumper]

Sorry dude but, that it's a complain from a customer not from a friend. I feel the same I love m2000 and when I saw this product I bought it immediately. Yes i knew that it was in beta but, since Razbam start the harrier project they only have excuses for not finishing the m2k.

 

Rules are rules, only constructive criticism is allowed.

 

Razbam will finish the 2000 but now they must work on the Harrier. This is most likely under NDA why they must shift dev priority but I'm sure they will finish the 2000.

 

I'm sure ED won't let Razbam release the harrier with an unfinished 2000.

[Wizard_03]

Sorry dude but, that it's a complain from a customer not from a friend. I feel the same I love m2000 and when I saw this product I bought it immediately. Yes i knew that it was in beta but, since Razbam start the harrier project they only have excuses for not finishing the m2k.

 

You do realize that multiple teams work on different projects right, If you are paying attention they actually have three aircraft in development at this point however the M2K has still had regular and frequent updates, seems like its being worked on at the same pace since release.

 

Also they stated a while back that some of the features of the M2K such as the A2G radar modes require implementation on EDs side first.

 

OT note: always makes me smile when Devs are awesome at communication with the community and frequently post updates yet people still find something to complain about. lol

[some1]

You do realize that multiple teams work on different projects right, If you are paying attention they actually have three aircraft in development at this point however the M2K has still had regular and frequent updates, seems like its being worked on at the same pace since release.

 

Also they stated a while back that some of the features of the M2K such as the A2G radar modes require implementation on EDs side first.

 

It has been clearly stated by Zeus, that the Mirage is now on back burner and they focus on the Harrier for undisclosed reasons. There's no "multiple teams" working on those two planes.

 

Most of the remaining issues don't require ED help. Don't tell me the guys need ED help to update the terribly obsolete manual or add the missing keyboard shortcuts.

 

Don't get me wrong, Razbam seem to be a bunch of very nice guys and I applaud them for openly communicating and frequent updates, but in the end it is what it is: a product that costs money, and the customers have the right to expect delivery of something, for which they paid in advance.

[Rafo79]

Rules are rules, only constructive criticism is allowed.

 

Razbam will finish the 2000 but now they must work on the Harrier. This is most likely under NDA why they must shift dev priority but I'm sure they will finish the 2000.

 

I'm sure ED won't let Razbam release the harrier with an unfinished 2000.

 

The constructive critic is...Razbam by putting on hold or almost on hold the m2k you are making the customers angry and (at least in my case) a lot of theme will not buy the new module, not because the module it self but because your way of doing business.

 

"Razbam will finish the 2000 but now they must work on the Harrier" what? I paid for the m2k not for future modules, that's Razbam problem not mine. it's ok to wait for the updates that will make the module complete but, not for future modules. You are perfect customer man, can I sell you something? :megalol:

 

ED has nothing to do with 3th party modules evolutions.

[azm]

If it`s constructive I`d like to ask a list of tasks and features that will be done to make the module real "released". No dates but only the list.

Edited May 15, 2017 by azm

[Rafo79]

You do realize that multiple teams work on different projects right, If you are paying attention they actually have three aircraft in development at this point however the M2K has still had regular and frequent updates, seems like its being worked on at the same pace since release.

 

Also they stated a while back that some of the features of the M2K such as the A2G radar modes require implementation on EDs side first.

 

OT note: always makes me smile when Devs are awesome at communication with the community and frequently post updates yet people still find something to complain about. lol

 

I no man no, Razbam is not given really updates they are just tweaking minor problems so they have something to present the next update Friday. That is(in my opinion) because they need more time or people to spare in the m2k. I didn't bought a Beta module, I bought complete module that was in beta stage; think about it!

 

Maybe they should learn from the guys of Heatblur because the Viggen has a2g radar...so that of ED need to implemented first smells fishy:pain:

 

It is always make me laugh when fankids are fooled by developers.

[Dehuman]

Maybe they should learn from the guys of Heatblur because the Viggen has a2g radar...so that of ED need to implemented first smells fishy:pain:

 

It is always make me laugh when fankids are fooled by developers.

 

RAZBAM did post their reasoning for why they would wait for native DCS support rather than create their own ground radar.

 

Heatblurs decision could come back to haunt them yet.

 

Having more than one release that is in development is quite normal for DCS. Just look at Nevada (still in alpha) and Normandy.

[myHelljumper]

It is always make me laugh when fankids are fooled by developers.

 

And now you are being agressive...

 

From what you are posting I see you don't understand how DCS 3rd party work, ED have a lot to do with the 3rd work schedule, they allow or not development of a specific plane(don't you remember the RB MIG-23 short story ?).

My bet is that ED required some progress on the harrier so RB still hold the plane to develop, but I could be wrong ;).

 

HB have a semi-working AG radar that does not pick-up any buildings... Perfect !(HB did a wonderful job with it, but it is not perfect). Why redevelop something that someone is going to do better than you (ED has access to core game source code, RB does not have the same access)(BTW do you see any other working AG radar out there ?).

 

I am not happy either that the 2000 development is slowing down but non-constructive criticism and agressive posts against other users will not make RB shift development priority. All we can do is show our support and wait :).

 

Anyway RB already justified why the dev is on the harrier at the moment, they did not say that they will release the Harrier before completing the 2000 nor they will end dev here.(to the contrary the 2000 is now out on steam so it is clearly not forgotten).

 

If you go for constructive discussion I will be happy to keep talking with you but if you go for whining and agressive/angry posts against RB or any forum user I will be happy to ignore you.

 

The fankid say : have a nice day.

Edited May 15, 2017 by myHelljumper

[Conroy]

If it`s constructive I`d like to ask a list of tasks and features that will be done to make the module real "released". No dates but only the list.

 

+1 , well said dude. I agree.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Conroy

[Pikey]

Viggen radar is based on a list of UNITS, like the air radars and then it goes through a filtering process. I made a periscope object as a ship and it merely shows what I told the LUA was the size and isn't related to the object. The periscope object showed up clear as day for a hundred km, it's got nothing to do with the object size or simulated 'radar reflections'.

 

The objects such as Buildings that should show up on a ground radar are not UNITS, they are scenery and cannot be found by the game currently by using scripting. Things like the car traffic... it's client side generated, it's not synched on the server, imagine the CPU melt!

 

Thinking something is the same in code by comparing the output of each is a critically flawed viewpoint. The above is merely a related example, the Mirage has a TFR or ground avoidance type radar, and I've never seen it in operation. If they make one, will it account for the DCSW limitations in code with ground returns? What do those ground returns show? Are we able to see large buildings on it? Aren't the complaints about not viewing structures a VALID criticism of the Viggen radar implementation (considering they could see things like lighthouses and take fixes on them)? Would a similar implementation for Mirage violate the proposed effort vs reward of an early implementation?

 

Apples to Oranges, with little code level understanding.

 

However I would like to see/know where new features end, and fixes are the only things going forward, it's a reasonable consumer standpoint. Potentially, I see the ground radar part as keeping the Mirage in Beta or pre release for an indeterminate length of time and completely mocking the "early access" terminology. There are some definitely troubling issues with the nomenclature and more importantly modules produced under a developing framework.

 

I no man no, Razbam is not given really updates they are just tweaking minor problems so they have something to present the next update Friday. That is(in my opinion) because they need more time or people to spare in the m2k. I didn't bought a Beta module, I bought complete module that was in beta stage; think about it!

 

Maybe they should learn from the guys of Heatblur because the Viggen has a2g radar...so that of ED need to implemented first smells fishy:pain:

 

It is always make me laugh when fankids are fooled by developers.

[Wizard_03]

I no man no, Razbam is not given really updates they are just tweaking minor problems so they have something to present the next update Friday. That is(in my opinion) because they need more time or people to spare in the m2k. I didn't bought a Beta module, I bought complete module that was in beta stage; think about it!

 

Maybe they should learn from the guys of Heatblur because the Viggen has a2g radar...so that of ED need to implemented first smells fishy:pain:

 

It is always make me laugh when fankids are fooled by developers.

 

No you bought a product in beta, which is what it really comes down too. No promises on dates or features here...ever lol and you treat the devs like they personally owe you something simply because you bought it just like everyone else did,

 

Its amazing. :)

 

What's even crazier, and my point is; that of all the 3rd parties and even ED themselves Razbam communicates with us the most, and when your a fankid like me and can't wait for things to come out communication is awesome. Yet you can't seem to appreciate that.

 

It sucks having to wait I know but Welcome to the world of DCS, I'm glad you brought up Heatblur. Can you ask them when the Mig-21 is gonna be totally finished?

Edited May 15, 2017 by Wizard_03

[iLOVEwindmills]

I'm not even really following what it is that is dramatically absent or broken from the module atm? Sharp angles in the pit? I mean really? Then there is the 2 weapons that have to be made by ED?

 

There is some tweaking to be done still I guess, but is that really impacting anyone's ability to fly and use the thing right now?

Edited May 15, 2017 by iLOVEwindmills

[Esac_mirmidon]

+1

[Slims]

Well i defended them untill now. But you have to take into account that the way they released the m2k, by that i mean the state in which this was released saying was an Alpha was quite farfetched. It was a very early pre-alpha as there was nothing complete there was not one system working. And yet I payed 50$ for that thinking it was a beta. I will not argue they truly always communicated with us but that does no mean after so much time has passed since release and since they just released it on steam that this module is seriously lacking in some departments. I understand that they need to earn money but moving on to the next project while this one is left in a forever beta state doesn't earn them a lot of trust. And yes there are still a lot of stuff missing from this not just visual stuff in the cockpit, there are complete systems missing like radar which in 50% done, damage model is totally lacking, etc. You can just look around the forum and bug section to get a big picture. So tbh i`m not to excited about the upcoming Harrier from Razbam as probably it will have the same issues.

[myHelljumper]

NOBODY SAID THAT THE DEVELOPMENT HAVE STOPPED.

 

Please show me a post from RB where they say that they stop the devs on the 2000 and they will leave it in its current state.

There is none.

 

For the moment their priority is the harrier but they are still working on the 2000. Cptsmiley is working on it but he is away for now.

 

You guys should listen to what Zeus say and stop putting words in his mouth...

[Slims]

Well there have been no updates in quite some time so it is normal for any sane person to draw this conclusion. Also moving up to the harrier is not an excuse. As i have already paid money for this module so to move on to the next module so you can again sell a pre-alpha and keep it in beta for 2 years is not something i take part in again.

Also it`s better to let Zeus answer than you answering for him as i don`t think you have any inside information as to how razbam will continue to operate.

[Esac_mirmidon]

This is very easy.

 

Never buy early access products. Never ever. Period.

 

And let the rest of us who dit It enjoy the Mirage and rest a bit.

 

This is an update pending list thread, not a complainer list thread.

[myHelljumper]

Yes, sorry for off topic.

Zeus already gave enough info on the matter, we can't do anything more at this point.

[sunski34]

Never buy early access products. Never ever. Period.

 

Buy in presale time helps 3rd dev party to earn money and go forward in projects... So it's a customer's decision to buy (and to help) or not.

 

But of course, when buying a module, it has to be completly finished at the end ! This is the deal which has to be achieved !

Edited May 16, 2017 by sunski34

[Esac_mirmidon]

Read again my post.

 

I'm buying early access modules all the time

[sunski34]

no problem for me. ;)

[Conroy]

Well i defended them untill now. But you have to take into account that the way they released the m2k, by that i mean the state in which this was released saying was an Alpha was quite farfetched. It was a very early pre-alpha as there was nothing complete there was not one system working. And yet I payed 50$ for that thinking it was a beta. I will not argue they truly always communicated with us but that does no mean after so much time has passed since release and since they just released it on steam that this module is seriously lacking in some departments. I understand that they need to earn money but moving on to the next project while this one is left in a forever beta state doesn't earn them a lot of trust. And yes there are still a lot of stuff missing from this not just visual stuff in the cockpit, there are complete systems missing like radar which in 50% done, damage model is totally lacking, etc. You can just look around the forum and bug section to get a big picture. So tbh i`m not to excited about the upcoming Harrier from Razbam as probably it will have the same issues.

 

+1

 

A very reasonable and polite post for every customer in every normal forum.

[Slims]

I have bought all the early access modules that got released in DCS world since the beginning with very little exceptions and until now i have absolutely no regrets.

Esac_mirmidon, I think this is the perfect place to voice out my unhappiness with Razbam regarding exactly the updating of this module. I have never until now complained about the state of the m2k you can check all my post, as I was never a very active forum member, I accepted the way it was released and was very happy to have access to this module, the thing i`m totally unhappy about is the state it got left at this moment even if it is "until harrier is done" as this should have been foreclosed from the very beginning. Also i don't see how me voicing my opinion gets in the way of anyone enjoying this or any other module. Don`t get so annoyed when someone voices out they're opinion, I have the same rights as you, if you are happy with it you can voice out you're opinion, i am entitled to mine.

As it is right now I stick to what i said earlier, this module is FAR from being complete, and i will not be participating in any other Razbam betas.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Slims