[REPORTED] Model Visibility Issues

[iLOVEwindmills]

So there's visibility changes in 1.5.5? I don't have anything installed but stable, anybody have the lowdown on what they changed exactly?

 

Was anything in depth changed like dependence on resolution or zoom for instance?

[Why485]

So there's visibility changes in 1.5.5? I don't have anything installed but stable, anybody have the lowdown on what they changed exactly?

 

Was anything in depth changed like dependence on resolution or zoom for instance?

 

A lot has changed, to the point where I'm not sure the old system is even used at all anymore. What was also interesting was that the system is no longer optional or configurable. At least in the open beta, the model enlargement setting did nothing.

 

I've been holding off on writing a big post on how they work as I want to play with them and test them more to make sure things aren't placebo. That and I wasn't sure if they would change between open beta and stable. I'll be doing more testing with the stable version.

 

In general though, this is a big step in the right direction and I'm very happy that it's not even an option anymore.

[Esac_mirmidon]

+1 Why485.

 

It works very well, from distance to close range. The only thing i think need some tweak is the distance at you are able to se the dots. For me it´s to large. And also little things like missiles are visible at the same distance as other planes, but after some fine tunning i think ED hits the sweet spot.

 

Add sun reflections over fuselage and canopy on distant contacts and this could be simply great.

[Gliptal]

A lot has changed, to the point where I'm not sure the old system is even used at all anymore. What was also interesting was that the system is no longer optional or configurable. At least in the open beta, the model enlargement setting did nothing.

 

I've been holding off on writing a big post on how they work as I want to play with them and test them more to make sure things aren't placebo. That and I wasn't sure if they would change between open beta and stable. I'll be doing more testing with the stable version.

 

In general though, this is a big step in the right direction and I'm very happy that it's not even an option anymore.

I'll be waiting for your post, I'm quite curious.

[iLOVEwindmills]

A lot has changed, to the point where I'm not sure the old system is even used at all anymore. What was also interesting was that the system is no longer optional or configurable. At least in the open beta, the model enlargement setting did nothing.

 

I've been holding off on writing a big post on how they work as I want to play with them and test them more to make sure things aren't placebo. That and I wasn't sure if they would change between open beta and stable. I'll be doing more testing with the stable version.

 

In general though, this is a big step in the right direction and I'm very happy that it's not even an option anymore.

 

Ya I just got around to testing the new stable version, it seems a LOT better. Dots are visible, if somewhat small, regardless of zoom level which is the most massive thing imo. The contact becomes more easily visible if you zoom, but zooming out would never make them dissapear.

 

Angle does not seem to matter as much anymore, but contrast did I got the feeling. When fighting against Hawks (pitch black skin), I was consistently having a much much easier time spotting them even at quite a distance, compared to the gray A10 paintscheme.

[SageOT]

Doubt I'll be able to jump in the Rift today... Don't play on Beta and since stable is now updated...? Same question as above? Any Rift folks...? New model stuff better/worse/same for VR?

 

Thanks.

[Bucic]

Ya I just got around to testing the new stable version, it seems a LOT better. Dots are visible, if somewhat small, regardless of zoom level which is the most massive thing imo. The contact becomes more easily visible if you zoom, but zooming out would never make them dissapear.

 

Angle does not seem to matter as much anymore, but contrast did I got the feeling. When fighting against Hawks (pitch black skin), I was consistently having a much much easier time spotting them even at quite a distance, compared to the gray A10 paintscheme.

Have you got any images or videos showcasing the updates?

[Esac_mirmidon]

The problem with images or videos is that you are not going to have a clear picture about what to expect.

 

It looks much better in your own screen. Pics aren´t making any justice.

[Bucic]

The problem with images or videos is that you are not going to have a clear picture about what to expect.

 

It looks much better in your own screen. Pics aren´t making any justice.

You can capture both videos and images in pixel-to-pixel fidelity using lossless formats.

[GrmlZ]

The latest 1.5.5 patch has fixed most of the issues i reported in this thread previously.

Needs more testing, but so far its looking pretty good for me.

[SharpeXB]

What was also interesting was that the system is no longer optional or configurable.

I still see the same settings in v1.55 for Model Enlargement in the menu.

[Why485]

I still see the same settings in v1.55 for Model Enlargement in the menu.

 

Those settings are still there but they do nothing. The impostor system has been completely removed from the game and replaced with something else that's neither optional nor configurable.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

yes...imposters dont seem to do anything anymore. so far, its in my view definitely the best result we have ever seen in dcs....still,...there is much room for improvement...i think a little more contrast is needed if the contacts get closer..against ground or sky when they are above you they still tend to disappear.

[Esac_mirmidon]

In that situations the addition of sun glare reflections could be perfect.

[Reflected]

Any updates on this? It makes DCS basically unplayable. I tested - no matter how I set the model enlargement in the main options menu, it's OFF in game.

[HornedGod]

I get the same. No model enlargement in 1.5.5.58891.190. None in single player and none on MP server where it is set to be on. No mods active.

[iLOVEwindmills]

There's a new system for spotting. Either the model enlargement is not 'supposed' to work with it and its just the old menu thats not yet removed, or the model enlargement is not yet implemented for the new system and will be activated later.

 

I don't think there was anything whatsoever about this in the patch notes so its anybodies guess when/how this will be addressed.

[Reflected]

Aha, so now they removed the large models, but gave nothing instead. Do they realize that this makes the game unplayable? Why can't they leave the impostor option in game until they figure out something better?

[SharpeXB]

Those settings are still there but they do nothing. The impostor system has been completely removed from the game and replaced with something else that's neither optional nor configurable.

It's strange that the selections are still on the menu then. Honestly the best solution for this would indeed be neither optional nor configurable, then it won't be divisive in multiplayer.

[Why485]

Aha, so now they removed the large models, but gave nothing instead. Do they realize that this makes the game unplayable? Why can't they leave the impostor option in game until they figure out something better?

 

No, there's a completely different system in place now. I'm still unclear if it does anything within visual range, but it does draw a 1 pixel dot once the plane gets sufficiently small. Turning on anti-aliasing seems to make the dot a little easier to see (spreading it out slightly into a few more pixels), as without AA it seems as if the dot is literally just 1 pixel. Depending on your resolution and screen size, a single pixel can be uselessly difficult to see, or somewhat easy to see.

 

4X AA

 

No AA

 

What is worrying though, is that sometimes with no AA you can have situations where a dot disappears. If you move the camera around it can sometimes look like it's flickering, and in some frames it can sometimes just disappear altogether. This isn't really an issue with 4X AA and above.

 

Maybe that's intended and the flickering is supposed to simulate glare of some kind? I don't know. I will say though that it's easier to see targets at a distance when AA is on.

 

As for WVR, it feels like it's easier to see planes WVR, but I'm having a hard time telling if that's truly the case or not. At this point I'm kind of leaning towards it not doing anything at all WVR, but again it's hard for me to definitely say anything. There's nothing I've been able to find to turn off or tweak so that I can compare or break down the system to figure out how it works. The only things I can definitively say is that this new system cannot be turned off, it draws dots once planes are sufficiently small, and it is not configurable in the settings menu.

 

I could have sworn that WVR it worked better in the openbeta, to the point where I was wondering if they had actually implemented some kind of very subtle scaling (which is the best kind!), but on the stable release, it seems slightly worse. I have to again add the disclaimer that I have no hard proof either way to support those claims.

 

If it sounds like I'm doing a lot of guessing, it's because I am. I'm having a hard time breaking this down due to the lack of anything to configure. It could be as dead simple as a dot, or maybe there's something more complex going on. I just don't know. ED doesn't ever say anything on the subject. This was a pretty dramatic change to the sim and it wasn't even mentioned in the patch notes. It would be great if ED would explain what is going on or at least tell us what their plans are.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Why485

[SharpeXB]

Is the improved shading released yet?

[Reflected]

I have AA on, and it's still horrible. I'm a real world recreational pilot and I can spot small planes at 7-8 miles and if I look hard even at 10. In game it's not impossible especially if I fly with a realistic peripheral vision instead of looking at the world through a keyhole. But even if I zoom in they are just not visible. At all. I was considering buying the F5E but I'm not buying anything until there is a fix for this :(

[iLOVEwindmills]

I have AA on, and it's still horrible. I'm a real world recreational pilot and I can spot small planes at 7-8 miles and if I look hard even at 10. In game it's not impossible especially if I fly with a realistic peripheral vision instead of looking at the world through a keyhole. But even if I zoom in they are just not visible. At all. I was considering buying the F5E but I'm not buying anything until there is a fix for this :(

 

In some situations I experienced the dot actually getting vaguer/dissapearing when zooming in. Zoomed out seemed to make it easier to see the dot at times.

[GGTharos]

According to USAF research paper (I'll dig it up when/if I have the time), you shouldn't be expecting to spot a large fighter outside of 7nm during a visual search.

 

You may be able to see one further away if you know exactly where to look and the conditions are right.

 

Although these are just anecdotes, during the 'splash two' shoot-down of two MiG-29's, the pilot said he only picked them up visually when they were pointed out by the TD boxes in the HuD around 7-8nm.

In earlier times, pilots in Phantoms reported losing sight of MiG-21's 2nm away when they'd be tail-on or head-on, and picked them up again when they were turning.

 

 

 

I have AA on, and it's still horrible. I'm a real world recreational pilot and I can spot small planes at 7-8 miles and if I look hard even at 10. In game it's not impossible especially if I fly with a realistic peripheral vision instead of looking at the world through a keyhole. But even if I zoom in they are just not visible. At all. I was considering buying the F5E but I'm not buying anything until there is a fix for this :(

[Dahlbeck]

Actually, picking up a dang fellow PA-28 in the circuit can be hard sometimes, so maybe we shouldn't have too high expectations with a realistic rendering making it easy to spot things.

 

What has been discouraging for a long time however, is the way in previous versions, that aircraft have actually disappeared from view even when they were fairly close and should be visible.

 

Hopefully that is fixed now so that aircraft never disappear until the range goes beyond the dot-drawing limit. Anyone able to confirm?