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Is there anyway to modify A-10's stall characteristic?


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I'm trying to stop the wing dip tendency once I reach about 25 degrees AoA. As I understand it, the wing dip occurring each time one tries to ride the chopped stall warning doesn't happen in real life; I've watch a few videos where the A-10 Pilots do ride the chopped tone for a while and no wing dips occur in any of them. So is there any way to modify it in the sim so the wing dipping happens at a later angle of attack, say 27 degrees?

 

Mind you I'm not that savvy in programming so you'll have to lay it down in layman's terms for me :smilewink:.

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No. There's no magic line of code that tells when stall occurs, the A-10C has a PFM that treats the frame as moving through a fluid, and doesn't use performance tables.

 

That said, you can ride the chopped tone, but you have to be very precise with it. You're probably pulling too much.

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I'm using a TM warthog stick, it's got that stiction problem that exasperates the more I pull it, without that stiction or whatever it's called, I'd have the precision to ride the tone :P.

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I'm using a TM warthog stick, it's got that stiction problem that exasperates the more I pull it, without that stiction or whatever it's called, I'd have the precision to ride the tone :P.

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

Personally I wouldnt have the guts to do it, but maybe you have lol

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"Amen"

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Personally I wouldnt have the guts to do it, but maybe you have lol

 

I've read about that method some time ago, I haven't had the guts to do that so far either :p. I think I heard as well that the TM Warthog stick and throttle have gotten cheaper nowadays as well, if that's true that might be an encouraging thought, if things go south while tearing my unit apart... hehe.

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  • 4 months later...

Bump!

I've found a way to circumvent this. I have simply altered when the warning tones will be triggered, for example: the chopped tone by default will trigger at 23.8 AoA at 0.2 Mach, I changed it to 23.35, the value for the steady tone, and lowered the previous steady tone value, meaning that at 0.2 Mach I will get chopped tone where I would previously get the steady one.

 

To do this it's simple: find this file DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\STALL\StallParams.lua Make sure you back it up first.

Alter the numbers next to each mach number to a lower settings. Personally I've configured 0.2 through 0.4, since I'm rarely above those speeds, so that the chopped tone will trigger when the steady tones would previously trigger and the steady tone will trigger before that at the same interval in the default settings.

 

Personal setup:

{0.2, 22.95, 23.35},

{0.3, 22.55, 23.1},

{0.4, 21.8, 22.5},

{0.5, 21.0, 22.05},

{0.6, 19.45, 20.85},

{0.7, 15.4, 16.75},

 

You can set this up to your liking & feel free to spread this info on the mods subforum, I'm not sure if this has been said before but please don't take all the credit to yourself if it hasn't ;).

 

Fun fact, now you can do this without wing dipping:

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It is doable, but only in certain attitudes, speeds and many other parameters. Otherwise most of the time you will certainly get a wing dip trying to ride the chopped even when you're super careful with your stick.

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If by the chopped tone you mean the Beep, Beep, Beep. I 'ride' that all the time. The solid tone you can also ride, but you need to correct the odd wing twitch. Typically though after a few seconds you don't have any energy left and it gets harder and harder and more and more pointless.

 

If I had an RC plane that dropped wings at high AoA (and I have had RC planes that did this), I moved the weight forward a little. ie. moved the CoG forward about 0.5% usually stabilises things at a slight cost of "flickability".

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If by the chopped tone you mean the Beep, Beep, Beep. I 'ride' that all the time. The solid tone you can also ride, but you need to correct the odd wing twitch. Typically though after a few seconds you don't have any energy left and it gets harder and harder and more and more pointless.

 

If I had an RC plane that dropped wings at high AoA (and I have had RC planes that did this), I moved the weight forward a little. ie. moved the CoG forward about 0.5% usually stabilises things at a slight cost of "flickability".

 

The Beep Beep Beep is actually the hard one, the steady beep is the easy one. The steady triggers at a shallower AoA than chopped, I think you got it mixed up :P.

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The Beep Beep Beep is actually the hard one, the steady beep is the easy one. The steady triggers at a shallower AoA than chopped, I think you got it mixed up :P.

 

I believe I did. It's been about 2 weeks since I flew in DCS. Shame on me.

 

So yes, you can ride the beep, beep, beep but it's a very, very fine margin and you do have to "pick a wing up" from time to time.

 

Personally I like the A10s instability. It means you can spin it and ever snap roll it (to a fashion).

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I believe I did. It's been about 2 weeks since I flew in DCS. Shame on me.

 

So yes, you can ride the beep, beep, beep but it's a very, very fine margin and you do have to "pick a wing up" from time to time.

 

Personally I like the A10s instability. It means you can spin it and ever snap roll it (to a fashion).

 

Only issue is, it is not realistic; see the video I linked in my other post and I have a few more showing real life A-10s ridding the chopped with no wing falling/spin tendencies. In my linked video is an A-10 dogfight vs F-16 where he rides the chopped tone for about 12 seconds straight with no indication of a stall whatsoever.

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Only issue is, it is not realistic; see the video I linked in my other post and I have a few more showing real life A-10s ridding the chopped with no wing falling/spin tendencies. In my linked video is an A-10 dogfight vs F-16 where he rides the chopped tone for about 12 seconds straight with no indication of a stall whatsoever.

 

But there is no indication of how deep he went into the beeping. He could have been holding it within 0.1 degrees of the solid beep. I'm not exaggerating, the guy probably knew the limits of his plane way better than any of us do.

 

Not to mention things like buffeting that can be an early warning to wing drop.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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All I'm saying is that I think in game either the wing stalls happen too early or the chopped warning is too late. I understand the pilots irl can feel the forces and their plane but it would just be too precise to stay within this super tiny margin for someone who's got all his focus on the enemy jet, even with more precise controls. Remember that the stall onset is a function of speed which he can't monitor because he's got his eyes on the bandit.

 

Anyway I'm happy with my new setup, I can now max perform my plane like the real guys do (at least that's what I think) and I felt that I should share it for anyone who feels the same as me.

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Remember that the stall onset is a function of speed which he can't monitor because he's got his eyes on the bandit.

 

This kind of stall is not a function of speed at all. It's purely a function of AoA.

 

A wing stalls when the AoA exceeds the point at which the laminar flow of air over the wing detaches from (usually) the upper surface and the wing, produces a turbulent flow and stops producing lift.

 

That can happen either by trying to maintain level flight when too slow which requires a higher and higher AoA or it can happen at any speed by pulling the stick back aggressively and pitching the aircraft away from it's direction of travel.

 

You can get the stall horn to sound at any speed if the aircraft is suitably agile.

 

I believe it's called an accelerated stall or high speed stall.

 

The wing dropping is usually caused by there being minute differences between the airflow over each wing. This caused a tip stall on one of two wings first. The moment this happens the wing drops as it has stalled. This usually induces a yaw towards the stalled wing which actually helps to prevent the other wing stalling, at least initially. This is why stalling aircraft often results in a spin.

 

Note that aircraft are often "tuned" at cost of performance to be nose heavy and the tail plane is set up to stall after the main wing. The nose heaviness gives them much more roll and pitch stability helping to prevent the wing drop tip stall and impending spin characteristic. The wings are often "washed out" with the wing twisted to lower the AoA at the tip relative to the root to prevent tip stalling. The tail stalling after the main wing produces a distinct pitch down as you begin to stall automatically correcting the issue. The A10C however is designed to be highly agile and less stable, even requiring electronic stability systems.


Edited by paulca
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This kind of stall is not a function of speed at all. It's purely a function of AoA.

 

A wing stalls when the AoA exceeds the point at which the laminar flow of air over the wing detaches from (usually) the upper surface and the wing, produces a turbulent flow and stops producing lift.

 

My bad, I didn't word it correctly. I meant to say that the stick force needed to stay below critical AoA changes with speed (mach no.), or at least it is so according to the stallparams lua file, which shows decreasing max AoA (weird A-10 units) as the mach number increases. My point being, if the stall modeling (or stall tone onset) in game is accurate then that pilot in the video must have out of this world precision to stay within the very small margin of stall while maintaining visual on target at the same time.

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You can join multiplayer server with the modified file?

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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