DCS: F-86F Official Interactive Training Missions

[streakeagle]

Feedback on Navigation mission:

 

1) The directive to tune the NDB gets stuck. I am tuned, but the message/highlight doesn't disappear. I am left waiting for further instructions and never receive any.

 

2) Trying to use the radio to request taxi to runway (in the absence of further orders), I discover the radio menu is kind of broken compared to other missions I fly. I use a voice command program, called Shoot, to calls up the necessary key presses, but it responds incorrectly and toggles my view instead bringing up the radio menu and selecting the specified ATC. I can manually get there using the "\" key, but the mic key <alt><\>, doesn't work. This situation only gets worse when I am inbound to the designated airfield. The radio frequency of the airfield does not match any frequency available to the F-86 radio, certainly not the one specified in the tutorial (channel 2). Having experienced flawed radio comms in MiG-21bis missions, the lesson learned is to open the mission, check the assigned radio frequencies of the aircraft and base, then save the mission. I tried this, and it worked. My voice comms (which use the mic button instead of the comms menu button) now work just fine.

 

3) I am not accustomed to holding course and alt while manipulating knobs, nor am I accustomed to using active pause. For me, the best time to set up the compass course and radio compass headings is while sitting on the runway just before takeoff. When I don't receive any orders after tuning the NDB frequency as specified to 489, I request taxi permission and begin rolling towards the runway. This triggers the next tutorial directive, which identifies the compass knob for placing the desired heading at the top. It would be nice if that triggered after you were one the runway and had your altimeter adjusted. The radio compass heading could be set at this point as well. Instead, it directs that in the middle of trying to hold alt/course. This mission was much easier to complete without using active pause when this heading is already set on the ground.

 

The landing went almost as smooth as the landing tutorial, but depends greatly on being successful at during the navigation phase and not losing control of heading/altitude while trying to comply with tutorial directives. Unlike the previous missions, this one was much more difficult and required me to fly it several times to get familiar with what was trying to be accomplished before I could focus on the task rather than wallowing all over the sky trying to keep up with reading/following tutorial directives while stabilizing my altitude/heading.

[derelor]

streakeagle, thank you for your feedback! Rep up!

 

Feedback on Navigation mission:

 

1) The directive to tune the NDB gets stuck. I am tuned, but the message/highlight doesn't disappear. I am left waiting for further instructions and never receive any.

Where exactly did it get stuck? Could this be the culprit:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2708110&postcount=48

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=162894

 

We will fix the mission to match the updated band selection.

[streakeagle]

OK, I have just reflown the Navigation mission (the original, not my opened/resaved copy).

 

Yes, I had to place the frequency band switch 180 degrees to get the instructions to advance, but then put it back where it should be to actually tune in the NDB frequency. From that point on, I got instructions I had not seen before such as turning on the taxi light.

 

On the final straight stretch heading for the runway, I found time to focus on turning the compass heading knob to 340 at the top. So, at the runway, all I had to do was set my altimeter.

 

Of course, the radio mic command was still ineffective, but the radio worked just fine as long as I used the "\" command to open the menu. The text reports a different frequency for the landing destination than the one that is used by Channel 2, but the radio still worked.

 

I am going to try mapping the gyro compass heading and radio compass heading knobs to my F-16 MFDs to see if that eases my problem with adjusting them while flying. I refuse to use active pause!

 

Overall, this is a great training mission as it ties together the taxi, takeoff, navigation, and landing.

 

I still need to try the combat training missions.

[derelor]

Uploaded another updated version of the navigation training mission.

[derelor]

Uploaded missile training mission.

[streakeagle]

I have tried the Air-to-Air Guns mission.

 

It is hard for me to give feedback, because air-to-air is almost all I have done for years. So, the concepts, switches, and functionality of the basic LCOS sight with optional radar ranging is too familiar for me to critique an introductory training mission. Having said all of that, I still learned something new: the TRNG-HI-LO target speed selector. I haven't ever bothered with it, didn't even really know it was there. Still not sure what it does -- perhaps modify the lead computation to lead or lag a bit based on target's relative speed?

 

So, the mission worked flawlessly for me, but I have no idea if there is anything in it that would be hard for a newbie to follow?

[streakeagle]

Latest version of Navigation mission:

 

1) I no longer need to move the NDB band to 180 degrees. It starts 1 position CCW from the correct one and when I rotate to the correct band, the narrative advances.

 

2) I can see you changed the radio part to accept <ALT><\>, which made my voice control that relies on the assigned mic button work perfectly.

 

I no longer have any issues flying this mission. What happens to people using simple communications?

 

I mapped all the knobs that needed adjustments to my MFD buttons, so now I don't have to reach for a mouse and can get the desired settings with minimal disruption to level/straight flight. Adjusting the altimeter in flight is still a bit of a challenge, as zooming in to read the setting makes staying straight/level more difficult. But I can get "close enough" without zooming in.

 

Only two more missions to try.

[streakeagle]

Completed both the Missiles and Air-to-Ground Rockets and Guns missions. They were as straightforward as the Air-to-Air Guns mission.

 

The only issue I had with rockets/guns is that I don't have labels turned on and maybe I didn't read the text closely enough to see a description of what I was supposed to attack with the rockets. Given the direction to roll and dive to attack, I rolled up on a wing and could see strange patterns on the nearby runway... bingo! Lots of vehicles just waiting for rockets and strafing.

 

At this point I have completed every mission and for the moment don't have any further feedback. I will eventually repeat the missiles and A2G missions and more carefully read the text to see if I missed any typos.

[Snacko]

In the first mission Cold Start, at one point it says to press the B key to retract the Speed Brakes. But this does not work.

 

In the game controls it says:

Speed Brakes Switch - HOLD = B key

 

But press and even holding the B key does nothing. Is this a bug?

 

I would like to be able to toggle my Speed Brakes Open/Closed with one joystick button.

[streakeagle]

If you look at the control mappings, the Speed Brake has three positions:

"Out", "Hold", "In", Which can require as many as three inputs to implement.

The reason there isn't a simple toggle speed brake is that it can be partially opened or partially closed as needed.

The <B> key is actually mapped to the "Hold" command.

<L-Alt><B> is mapped to "Out".

<L-Ctrl><B> is mapped to "In".

So the tutorial should have specified to use <L-Ctrl><B>.

I missed that mistake because I have nearly every control mapped to my HOTAS and MFD switches.

 

 

My Warthog Throttle has a speed brake switch. It has three positions as well, but only uses two inputs. The middle position has no input. The default control scheme allows for two input control by having "up" and "down" mappings. So it takes two presses to go from Out to Hold to In. From Hold, one press can either go "up" or "down". The problem I have with this is that the in-game speed brake switch does not follow the position of my Warthog. So I made an alternate control mapping for the original "Out" and "In" commands that transitions to "Hold" whenever I release the "Out" or "In" positions. So, in the game I can see the speed brake switch always follows the position of my Warthog throttle speed brake switch.

 

So, how does this help you? Since I don't think Belsimtek provides a speed brake toggle mapping, you have to create a custom control script for one, similar to what I have done. If you have a toggle switch that locks in either position, on or off, that would be best as you would get the behavior you want: locked "Out" or locked "In". But I am guessing you want to mash a single momentary push button, typical of HOTAS, that is only "on" while you are pushing it down. So, your best option is a custom script that will hold the speed brake switch to "Out" while you are holding the button down and will otherwise always be "In". So, if you depress the button long enough, the speed brake will be fully out and if you want to keep it there, you will have to continue to hold the button down. As soon as you release the button, the speed brake will start retracting until it is all the way "In".

 

To make such a custom script, you need the "default.lua" file found in this folder:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\F-86\Input\F-86F\joystick

 

With default security settings, you will not be able to edit the file in that location, so you need to copy it somewhere else, like the desktop or root directory: C:\

 

It is safest to use a program that is compatible with various text file formats that won't break it when you save it, unlike Notepad.exe or Wordpad.exe. I prefer the program called Notepad++, which is a much enhanced basic text file editor that will preserve the file's original format.

 

When you open the default.lua file, there is an entry that looks like this:

join(res.keyCommands,{

 

after that line, add a line that looks like this:

 

{down = hydro_commands.F86_CockpitDeviceCommand_AirBrakesHandle, up = hydro_commands.F86_CockpitDeviceCommand_AirBrakesHandle, cockpit_device_id = devices.HYDRO_INTERFACE, value_down = -1, value_up = 1, name = _('Speed Brake Switch - Toggle'), category = {_('Flight Control'), _('Throttle Grip')}},

 

After saving the change, paste the edited file back in folder you got it from. When you start the game, edit the F-86F control map. In the list, you should now see "Speed Brake Switch - Toggle" and you can map a button to it. The next time you run a mission, you should be able to extend the speed brake with that button.

 

I realize this is a complicated procedure. The worst part is that after every patch, you have to re-install this change, preferably before you run the game. The edited file is saved in a folder during patching, in the form of:

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\_backup.016\Mods\aircraft\F-86\Input\F-86F\joystick

But I wouldn't just paste that file over the new one. Frequently, there are important changes. It is best to put all of your "mods" at the top of the list and re-copy them as a group into the new file.

 

Good luck. Feel free to ask lots of questions and/or PM me if need be.

Edited March 27, 2016 by streakeagle

[derelor]

Snacko, AFAIK there has been a recent change in input. Speed brakes on the F-86F are controlled by the three-position speed brake switch on the throttle. We now have three input commands for the individual positions (OUT - NEUTRAL/HOLD - IN) and two separate toggle commands for moving the switch up / down.

 

The cold start mission was the first training mission and has not been updated yet to reflect this change. Other missions (A2A Guns, for example - see screenshot) already incorporate the new behavior.

 

EDIT: Sniped - badly ;)

[Snacko]

So the Hold command just means to stop moving in or out?

 

EDIT:

Cheers! So there is no toggle anymore.. Ok. Thx.!

 

Well, I have an X55. So, I put it on a hat as 2 buttons.

When I press the hat up, it does the IN command, and when I 'release' the hat button it does the HOLD command. Did he same for the DOWN. Works great. So when I release either button it holds at that position.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Snacko

[Snacko]

Is there an indicator for the Flaps or Speedbrakes? Show if they are down or up?

[derelor]

Is there an indicator for the Flaps or Speedbrakes? Show if they are down or up?

No, there are no flap or speed brake position indicators in the cockpit - you have to look out the canopy. Adding this info is already on the to-do list for the cold start mission.

[derelor]

Small update to cold start mission with several improvements. More to come.

[streakeagle]

Small update to cold start mission with several improvements. More to come.

 

Tested the new version. Noticed the improvements in explanations.

 

The text listing the three basic steps has a phrase that is not normal in English:

 

- Enabling fuel automatics.

 

"automatic" is more of an adjective than a noun, perhaps you are trying to say:

 

- Enabling automatic fuel systems.

 

The throttle still needs to be advanced > 35% prior to disconnecting ground power.

 

Also, to comply with ATC radio procedures, I always turn on the radio, set the tower channel, and request for permission to start up immediately after ground power is connected.

[chuckgrimes]

Were can I download the F-86F RELEASE,my

current versions of DCS World are 1.5.3.51417.46 and 2.0.1.50747.

 

 

Chuck

[Kev2go]

Were can I download the F-86F RELEASE,my

current versions of DCS World are 1.5.3.51417.46 and 2.0.1.50747.

 

 

Chuck

 

yay same, i dont have the update to full release.

 

reinstalling from scratch didnt do anything yet either.

[kontiuka]

The "release" version of the Sabre is only in the DCS World Open beta branch for now.

[Rocky49]

Are these ever going to be finished? Most still do not have voice overs

[QJW]

Wow, I did not notice there was training missions put in place for the F-86 Saber. I have had this plane for over a year, was actually my first DCS purchase. I was really happy when it came out but had to pretty much learn everything by hand. Glad it finally got some proper training missions, going to have to go do them. Thanks m8s.

[retired_old_sarge]

I am a newbie here to DCS. I bought the F-86 and am very much loking forward to flying it it. A couple questions I have though...

 

1.where do I find the training videos listed in Derelor's post?

 

2. I did download the two trainings he has listed. I unzipped them... no problem but WHERE DO I PUT .miz files to use them??

 

3. Does anyone happen to have their setp up for a Logitech 3D extreme pro joy stick they would be willing to share?

 

I do know they are set up as how you want it but anything would be a great help to just get me started on it...

 

Please..

 

my regular contack e mail is

 

retired_old_sarge@yahoo.com and any help is and will be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thank you all very much

[AG-51_Razor]

Can't help with #1 but for #2, you put the mission file (.miz) in your C: User>Saved Games>Missions

[Art-J]

All these missions are already in the game, check the "Training Missions" tab and scroll to F-86 section.

[gnouze]

Hello

 

I see the mission files (miz) in the windowes explorer , but they don't appear in the game menu for "mission" or "training".

Can anyone help me ?

 

Gnouze