R-27T on center pylon

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Kula66, I take your point, although a whole IL-76 to carry half a dozen missiles would be overkill :)

Also I have read of instances in the Gulf War when A-10's were deploying to FOL's and carrying extra Mav's in a similar manner to ensure they had a few extra at the FOL.

[Shaman]

Are you guys thinking at all? The flanker's own fuse hides the top half hemisphere of the FOV ... you'd have to be nose-up with respect to target to launch this thing (or in particular, it would have to be under your nose).

GGTharos, since when you understand R-27 as dogfight missile?

Since it had a dogfighting seeker installed on it?

Penguins also have wings. Wrong logic. Were you the one to actually think a little? Think about the rest of the missle. Because from your post it seems you're refering to R-27 as dogfight missile, which is not. It's not supposed to be launched the way you'd want it to.

[GGTharos]

Penguins also have wings.

 

And this has to do exactly what with a dogfighting seeker?

[Shaman]

And this has to do exactly what with a dogfighting seeker?

Well, that doesn't make penguins dogfighting missiles?

Those have little wings too.

[Breakshot]

GGTharos, please give us links to at least any sources that support your argument regarding the missile. Because atm there is ton of info stacked agaist you, and all ur arguments are just based on your own assumption.

 

Pictures (the most obvious, and those pics were taken from operational AC, not Airshow, also u said u got info from "Russian" forum regarding the planes, since when u read Russian?) Also another pic with a Chinese Su-27SK loaded with an all IR payload!!, what bout that?

 

Su-27SK manual (that I tried to stress on for so long before, which clearly lists ETs as BVR weapon, plus it also confirms that it is actually possible to physically release the missile with ignition without any targeting info)

 

Armament of CCCP & Russia 1945-2000

M. Mikolajczuk, J. Gruszczynski

(Thanks to Kusch)

[504 Wolverine]

Since it had a dogfighting seeker installed on it?

 

Looks different than the R-73 (dogfighting) seeker to me.

 

Also looks a hell of a lot bigger than the R-60 seeker, as some suggested what may be installed on the 27T/ET.

[Pilotasso]

GGTharos, please give us links to at least any sources that support your argument regarding the missile. Because atm there is ton of info stacked agaist you, and all ur arguments are just based on your own assumption.

 

While you may be right, you are also much in the same condition.

Some pictures showing 3 or 4 ET's will hardly consist in a "stack of evidence" against anyone.

Without any technical and official recognition that it can take those configs into battle theres litle you can say about those pictures either.

 

Pictures (the most obvious, and those pics were taken from operational AC, not Airshow, also u said u got info from "Russian" forum regarding the planes, since when u read Russian?) Also another pic with a Chinese Su-27SK loaded with an all IR payload!!, what bout that?

 

Su-27SK manual (that I tried to stress on for so long before, which clearly lists ETs as BVR weapon, plus it also confirms that it is actually possible to physically release the missile with ignition without any targeting info)

 

Armament of CCCP & Russia 1945-2000

M. Mikolajczuk, J. Gruszczynski

(Thanks to Kusch)

 

This is what I mean: Just because there are some pictures showing some atypical loads doesnt mean those are wartime loads. I also seen F-18's with 12 AMRAAM load, doesnt mean it will. Because it has incovenients.

 

An all IR load would hardly be a BVR efective ordnance. Even if it was possible what GG said about the seekers cooling (wich I totaly forgot) is true.

The longer the missile flies the worst will be its tracking abilities. Add that to the inability of seeing across clouds, shooting them BVR wont take you far IRL.

 

BTW the usual 2 ET carrial capability in combat is stated on KNAAPO site, and was shown to you in a similar thread if you remenber.

The same goes for your translation wich several people saying that those words were ambigous without further clarification of their context in the sense that their realease without targeting info could also mean simple jetisoning for emergency situations. Much the same way you can get sidwinders ignited just to send them off the wingtip rails.

This hapens because when you release stores like winged missiles theres the risk that they wont fall off immidiatly , drag across the airframe or hit back the aircraft if they are simply released.

[EvilBivol-1]

Deep breath guys...

 

Unfortunately, these photos don't prove much in teh way of combat capability, either. Unless you read into the images.

 

Reading through the airforce.ru forum, where the original images came from, I see that these were flights to and from different airbases, forming up the combat-ready group for the G-8 summit.

 

The FACT is that these pictures prove that the -T can be carried on BOTH center pylons. We still don't know if it can be fired from them, or that it can be fired before seeker lock. At least not based on these pictures, which indeed appear to be transport shots as the planes are leaving from/arriving to their home bases.

 

It certainly was an interesting surpize though.

[Breakshot]

your translation wich several people saying that those words were ambigous without further clarification

 

Thats not the point, the point is that IT IS POSSIBLE to release them in such a manner, be it for whatever reason it doesnt matter. Thats all I was trying to prove! It seems like u only take in things that u want to hear, and always miss the point. Oh and it was only EvilBivol who ever said anything regarding my translation (not several people that u so mistakenly put it), and the only reason he ever said anything is because he misunderstood my comments based on what I read in the manual. I never traslated it word to word, but that would not be a problem for me as Russian is my first language.

 

in combat is stated on KNAAPO site

 

So does the capability of 27 carrying RVE AE or whatever that active missile is called.... Those KNAAPO sorurces are mere marketing throwouts.

 

 

prove that the -T can be carried on BOTH center pylons

 

 

And the other two inner pylons as well (Chinese Photo) but like you said Evil we still dont know if they can be fired from there. But the likely odds seem to be that they can be, at least the pylons could be modified for them to be able to fire from those positions.

[SwingKid]

The R-27R datalink antennas are visible as small, white, elonganted bumps on either side of the missile, just behind the control surfaces:

 

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/weapon/r271.asp

 

They aren't always visible on "mockup" R-27R missiles in photographs.

 

Since the R-27T lacks these antennas, we know it has no datalink, and no LOAL capability.

 

There are two types of launch rails employed by R-27 missiles: the APU-470 rail-launcher, and the AKU-470 "catapult" launcher. Either rail is compatible to carry either missile, R-27T or R-27R.

Only the rail launcher contains the nitrogen cooling bottle for the R-27T seeker.

Only the catapult launcher can be used underneath the Su-27, however, since the missile needs to clear the aircraft body.

Therefore, the R-27T on the fuselage pylons is not a combat-viable payload. To model them on these stations in Lock On, their seeker performance should be degraded, compared to when they are used from the wing stations with APU launchers.

 

-SK

[D-Scythe]

Therefore, the R-27T on the fuselage pylons is not a combat-viable payload. To model them on these stations in Lock On, their seeker performance should be degraded, compared to when they are used from the wing stations with APU launchers.

 

Not to mention the FOV issue.

 

Thats not the point, the point is that IT IS POSSIBLE to release them in such a manner, be it for whatever reason it doesnt matter.

 

So fine, would you want ED to allow you to carry R-27T/TEs on the fuselage pylons but you can't fire them at targets, at all? The F-15A/C can carry PGMs/AGMs/bombs too - and it will be just as useless as well.

 

Su-27SK manual (that I tried to stress on for so long before, which clearly lists ETs as BVR weapon, plus it also confirms that it is actually possible to physically release the missile with ignition without any targeting info)

 

I'm almost certain that the general consensus for that particular passage in the Su-27SK manual was determined by several members of this forum to be, at best, ambiguous when translated.

[SwingKid]

I'm almost certain that the general consensus for that particular passage in the Su-27SK manual was determined by several members of this forum to be, at best, ambiguous when translated.

 

AFAIK, there is no Russian text in the manual meaning "BVR". "ДВБ" simply translates to, "long-range combat."

Any range given for a passive-seeker missile will be its aerodynamic flight range, not its seeker range, since the latter for a passive seeker depends on target emissions, which vary according to the target, not the missile.

 

-SK

[Force_Feedback]

It is however clearly determined what двб is, since there is no "gap" between бвб and двб, and the radar/EOS modes of close range combat go up to 15km, it is logical that everything beyond that range is considered BVR.

 

I've looked at some Russian forums, and apparantly, someone who was working at okb-4 at the time says the seeker itself has a maximum range of 32km, and that the missile doesn't have LOAL/"datalink" ("" because with the R-27ER for example this means the missile gets coded commands from the launch aircraft, opposed to 3rd party datalink guidance) modes. As a reply members state the R-27ET is a useless missile, as it has a huge rocket motor and range and such a short-ranged seeker without any form of LOAL, again, that may very well have been useless speculation, but the "fact" that the seeker has a max. range of 32km is not disputed, only the existence of "datalink" and LOAL is.

 

The 27SK manual is for the export version of the su-27, which has downgraded capabilities, hence the limited "tactical view" or what's better known as "GCI datalink", although it can also recieve tactical information from other, airborne sources. But, in lomac we don't even have the basic tactical screen (no delta speed, angle and deltaheight vecorts at all, just two types of symbols), it also shows the range of friendly/enemy radars and allows to coordinate flanking attacks. So, ED, rather than CTRL+C/CTRL+v-ing the MeInt.xml file, you could let someone read the export su-27 manual, or read it yourself for that matter for your future products featuring the su-27. (maybe after all the small, annoying gas guzzlers like the f-16c and mig-29smt) ;)

[Kula66]

Also I have read of instances in the Gulf War when A-10's were deploying to FOL's and carrying extra Mav's in a similar manner to ensure they had a few extra at the FOL.

 

Me too ... for long distance, quick reaction deployments a/c do carry extra missiles. But are any shots of Sov taken while engaged in this sort of op? Hmmm ... not sure.

 

I'm not sure either way ... if GGT says the manual says that ... perhaps I'm more inclined to believe him. Can you scan the text?

[Kula66]

Also, if the ET wasn't WAY over modelled in LO would we even be having this debate?

 

The fact is the missile needs fixing ...

[Pilotasso]

Thats not the point, the point is that IT IS POSSIBLE to release them in such a manner, be it for whatever reason it doesnt matter. Thats all I was trying to prove! It seems like u only take in things that u want to hear, and always miss the point.

 

You seem to have not read the rest of my post after that sentence you quoted me. Very relevant, and it kinda desnt make your point^^^^ go anywhere.

 

Oh and it was only EvilBivol who ever said anything regarding my translation (not several people that u so mistakenly put it), and the only reason he ever said anything is because he misunderstood my comments based on what I read in the manual. I never traslated it word to word, but that would not be a problem for me as Russian is my first language.

 

I'm almost certain that the general consensus for that particular passage in the Su-27SK manual was determined by several members of this forum to be, at best, ambiguous when translated.

 

I would like to hear from the rest of the people who read the manual in the same way you did. And no 504 menbers please, they are suspicious of naturaly back you up. :D

 

And the other two inner pylons as well (Chinese Photo) but like you said Evil we still dont know if they can be fired from there. But the likely odds seem to be that they can be, at least the pylons could be modified for them to be able to fire from those positions.

 

Continuing what I said in the beggining of this post and what I said on your quote, firing in those positions could mean only blind missile launches, as in "emergency launch", jetisoning depending on the manuals context. I would like to know wheres the space for nitrogen bottles and pumps anywhere under the intakes pylons.

 

If you say they can be fired, I agree they COULD but the question of wether it guides is unanswered but most likely it is not.

 

Bivol has already stated that its more likely to be transport carrial than combat load, and if you doubt it, theres room to doubt its a valid combat load either.

 

P.S. Bear in mind Im having a friendly conversation and theres no hostility intended at all.

[Pilotasso]

Also, if the ET wasn't WAY over modelled in LO would we even be having this debate?

 

The fact is the missile needs fixing ...

 

Yeah, it is. The missiles refrigeration degrades over time, and these seekers cant see through clouds wich makes BVR employment of litle use much less maddogging it. You would waste these missiles.

 

Im not sure but breakshot apparently wants to insist that it can be fired without making it clear if he also means that it will guide/reaquire or whatever. Either way, if he doesnt, its kinda moot anyway, since if the missile was ever to be fixed the ET would be useless in the manner it is currently employed in the game. Cooling degradation would be sufficient for this even if the missile would still have the capability of reaquisition in mid flight.

 

Then it would be pointless to carry 3 or 4 of them as everyone would take ER's instead. As it should .

[Alfa]

your referring to radar slaving and cage/uncage missiles, both methods have the missile launched with their targets already aquired.

 

Correct.

 

The R-27T/TE has no datalink for midcourse guidance and the seeker needs to lock on to target prior to launch.

 

The bit about use of aircraft sensors is, as pilotasso said, a matter of steering the seeker into the direction of target in order for it to lock on.....BEFORE it can be launched :)

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Alfa]

GGTharos, please give us links to at least any sources that support your argument regarding the missile. Because atm there is ton of info stacked agaist you, and all ur arguments are just based on your own assumption.

 

Pictures (the most obvious, and those pics were taken from operational AC, not Airshow, also u said u got info from "Russian" forum regarding the planes, since when u read Russian?) Also another pic with a Chinese Su-27SK loaded with an all IR payload!!, what bout that?

 

 

Armament of CCCP & Russia 1945-2000

M. Mikolajczuk, J. Gruszczynski

(Thanks to Kusch)

 

The R-27T and R-27TE are used as follow-up weapons for the radar guided R-27R/RE - they are neither "dogfight missiles" nor "BVR weapons".

 

Radar guided missiles have best performance characteristics in a head-on aspect, which is seriously degraded in a tail chase - IR guided weapons are exactly the opposite because the heat signature of the target(engines) they are homing on is obscured by the target aircraft's airframe in head-on aspect, while unobscured in a tail chase.

 

The simple logic behind the IR guided R-27 missiles is to pair the IR seeker's performance characteristics in a tail chase scenario with a missile that has the kinetic energy to take advantage of it.

 

Su-27SK manual (that I tried to stress on for so long before, which clearly lists ETs as BVR weapon..

 

BVR = "Beyond Visual Range" - in a tail chase the R-27T/TE may be able to lock-on to a target that is outside the visual range of the pilot.....but not one that is outside the visual range of the seeker ;) .

 

...plus it also confirms that it is actually possible to physically release the missile with ignition without any targeting info)

 

Yes for the purpose of weapons jettision - R-27 missiles(both IR and Radar guided versions) are launched from either AKU-470 ejector racks or APU-470 rail launcher racks depending on their mounting position on the aircraft - in the case of the AKU-470 jettision is achieved simply by having the rack eject the weapon, while in the case of a APU-470 it is necessary to start the missile engine to get rid of the missile.....this has nothing to do with LOAL.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Alfa]

The same goes for your translation wich several people saying that those words were ambigous without further clarification of their context in the sense that their realease without targeting info could also mean simple jetisoning for emergency situations. Much the same way you can get sidwinders ignited just to send them off the wingtip rails.

This hapens because when you release stores like winged missiles theres the risk that they wont fall off immidiatly , drag across the airframe or hit back the aircraft if they are simply released.

 

Rail type launchers require the missile engine to ignite to clear the rail ;) - there is no other way of getting them off the rail :) .

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Kusch]

The R-27T/TE has no datalink for midcourse guidance and the seeker needs to lock on to target prior to launch.

 

No. Radar, or EOS must Lock on, no IR seeker R-27T.

 

 

Why autopilot? You wrong logic, R-27T not datalink like Amraam, but IR seeker no needs Lock on before launch.

[Alfa]

The FACT is that these pictures prove that the -T can be carried on BOTH center pylons.

 

Well of course they can - there is no difference between the R-27R/RE and R-27T/TE as far as the launchers they use. The fact that there are two different types of launcher racks(APU-470 and AKU-470) has to do with where on the aircraft the missiles are mounted - not with the type of guidance method :) .

 

There is no physical obstacle for mounting an R-27T at the most rear station between engines......but it is obviously not going to work as a combat configuration as the IR seeker needs unobstructed view to lock on to a target prior to launch :)

 

We still don't know if it can be fired from them, or that it can be fired before seeker lock.

 

Yes we do :) - for an engagement, the IR seeker needs to lock on to target prior to launch.

 

From article in Milparade written by Gennady Sokolovsky - chief designer at Vympel(I have highlighted passages of interest):

 

R-27 (AA10) Unified Medium/Long-Range Air-to-Air Missile

 

 

The R-27 AAM was designed to ensure air superiority in aerial duels. The missile design concept was based on the requirement to optimally fit two significantly different classes of aircraft: light front-line fighter and multirole air-superiority fighter. While the front-line fighters require a compact medium-range missile, the multirole fighters need a weapon with a considerably longer range.

le

A unified missile system was developed. It could use missiles of two weight versions and featured a high degree of commonality of components (control section, warhead, structural elements, and fixed and control surfaces). However, the missiles are equipped with different propulsors (basic version, designated R-27; and high-power version, designated R-27E). The latter's launch weight exceeds that of the basic version 1.4 times.

 

In addition, both versions are equipped with interchangeable homing head modules: semi-active radar homing head and passive IR homing head. Use of the missiles equipped with different homing head types increases the probability of hitting a target.

 

The modular design of the R-27 missile has made it possible to develop a system with unique performance characteristics having no analogs in Russia or abroad. Owing to the system's modular design, its considerable modernization potentialities can easily be utilized to improve design and performance characteristics by 25 to 30 percent.

 

New solutions used in the R-27 design include:

 

– the missile has a canard aerodynamic configuration with axisymmetric cruciform aerodynamic surfaces and complex-geometry aerodynamic control surfaces. They feature high-aspect ratio, variable leading-edge sweep, and narrowed root (the so-called "butterfly" configuration). This made it possible to use them in the differential mode for pitch and yaw control/stabilization as well as roll stabilization. The configuration of the control surfaces ensures the constant sign of roll moment within the whole range of Mach number and eliminates the so-called "reverse effect" typical of the canard configuration;

 

– destabilizers are installed on the homing head body forward of control planes. When the head is replaced by another type, constant static stability reserve is maintained by changing the area of the destabilizers;

 

– the missile stabilization principle and the autopilot equipment used to implement it provide for the missile's high dynamic characteristics in all flight modes, aeroelastic stability and compensation of launch disturbances for both missile versions which significantly differ in terms of weight, inertia, and stiffness characteristics. To adapt to a wide range of flight conditions, a nonlinear law of missile control surfaces manipulation is used to change coefficients depending on the flight time, altitude, and speed;

 

– the missile equipped with a radar homing head uses a combined guidance method which makes it possible to fully exploit the missile's ballistic capabilities which exceed the homing head's target acquisition range 2 or 2.5 times. In the initial phase, the missile uses inertial guidance to head for a calculated target position. The target position and speed data are then corrected via a data link. In the terminal phase, after locking on the target, the missile is controlled by the homing head;

 

– to guide the missile in the initial phase, the aircraft control system calculates its position in the inertial reference coordinate system common for the aircraft and the missile and generates initial targeting data and radiocorrection commands. The missile's reference coordinate system is generated by the platform's navigation system. The role of a gymbal stabilized in three axes is played by the antenna's gyro unit, whose initial orientation is aligned with the aircraft reference coordinate system prior to launch;

 

– the secondary processing of data in the radar homing head is accomplished by nonstationary Calman filters arranged in the form of a kinematic chain model. Prior to target lock-on, these filters operate in the relative target path prediction mode, their signals control the homing head's antenna and are used to generate the missile guidance law;

 

– guidance of a missile equipped with either the radar homing head that locks on the target in flight, or the IR homing head that locks on the target while the missile is still suspended from the carrier-aircraft attachment points, is accomplished with use of a proportional navigation method. In some cases, corrections are introduced into the guidance law applicable to the radar-guided missiles to optimize their flight trajectories for best performance of the radar homing head and proximity fuse. For example, to avoid a stream of clutter by taking the missile out of the aircraft radar's primary beam or provide for a diving attack on the target at a preset angle.

 

The R-27T (ET) missile, equipped with the IR homing head, is a version of R-27R (ER). Continuous operation time with the photodetector cooling system switched on is three hours. Provision is made in the IR homing head for a system designed to ensure its operation (with some decrease in the target acquisition range) if the aircraft is not filled with cooling agent before takeoff.

 

When a target is locked on, the carrier's information system furnishes target angle data to the missile. Once the seeker acquires the target, the missile locks onto it and switches over to the automatic tracking mode. If there are no data inputs from the carrier-aircraft systems, the missile operates autonomously. This operating mode is set by the pilot from his cockpit.

 

As regards the missile's resistance to jamming, it meets both Russian and NATO standards. Protection against natural noise is effected by operating the photodetector in a certain spectral band and the incoming data processing in the input channel of the IR homing head. Target discrimination techniques ensure highly effective protection against optical, modulated and flicker jamming signals masking the target, as well as against the direct effect of laser radiation.

 

The missile's structural elements are made mainly from titanium alloy. The casings of both motors are made from steel.

 

The same rail- and ejection-type suspensions are used by both missile versions. The APU-470 rail launcher is attached to wing pylons, while the AKU-470 can be attached both to wing and fuselage pylons. When the missile is launched, its launch lugs are released from the rail launcher simultaneously. From the ejection-type launcher, the missile is separated by a lever motion mechanism actuated by a pneumatic drive

 

This bit...

 

When a target is locked on, the carrier's information system furnishes target angle data to the missile. Once the seeker acquires the target, the missile locks onto it and switches over to the automatic tracking mode. If there are no data inputs from the carrier-aircraft systems, the missile operates autonomously. This operating mode is set by the pilot from his cockpit.

 

....is refering to "un-caging" the IR seeker and thereby allowing it to authonomously lock on to anything that passes through its FOV as opposed to "slaving" it to a target obtained via aircraft's onboard sensors(Radar, EOS or Helmet mounted sighting device)....but in all cases the seeker needs to have a lock before it can be launched.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Kusch]

Może ktoś znowu przetlumaczyc, to bardzo wazne (Who translate? important)

 

Pilot MiGa-29

"Rakieta R-27T jest w pełni autonomiczną rakietą samonaprowadzającą się na źródło ciepła, nie mamy jej (Polskie MiGi nie przenoszą R-27T, MiG-29 9.12) więc trochę podywaguję.

Sygnał z OPrNK przekazywany jest jak wspomniałem do maszyny cyfrowej, tam zapewne następuje wstępne wyliczenie punktu spotkania rakiety z celem, tak się dzieje w przypadku "zwykłego" Alamo (R-27R), po czym po odpaleniu rakieta początkowo podąża w tym kierunku, aż głowica samodzielnie zacznie wprowadzać poprawki"

 

Poza tym, dlaczego zwykly MiG-29 9.12 nie moze przenosic R-27T skoro jego naprowadzanie jest tak proste (niczym nie rozni sie od R-73)?

MiG-29 9.13S lub na ten przyklad Malezyjskie MiGi-29 ktore posiadaja stacje N019M (Topaz-M). Moga przenosic R-77 a takze R-27T. Dopiero od tej wersji stacji N019M jest mozliwe wykorzystnie R-27T/TE. To wskazywalo by jednoznacznie ze istnieje "datalink" dla rakiety R-27T.

 

Ps;

Jak bym napisal jak moze byc jeszcze odpalany R-27R to ED chyba spalilo by mnie na stosie :-)

[D-Scythe]

I've looked at some Russian forums, and apparantly, someone who was working at okb-4 at the time says the seeker itself has a maximum range of 32km, and that the missile doesn't have LOAL/"datalink" ("" because with the R-27ER for example this means the missile gets coded commands from the launch aircraft, opposed to 3rd party datalink guidance) modes. As a reply members state the R-27ET is a useless missile, as it has a huge rocket motor and range and such a short-ranged seeker without any form of LOAL, again, that may very well have been useless speculation, but the "fact" that the seeker has a max. range of 32km is not disputed, only the existence of "datalink" and LOAL is.

 

Did it specify 32 km in what situation? I can easily see the R-27ET seeker holding a lock 50 km away on an afterburning MiG-25 cruising at Mach 3+ at 80 000 ft in a tail chase.

 

Seeker range is often just as complicated and dependent on environmental factors as missile range is. The fact that nobody disputes a 32 km lock on range may be because in certain situations the R-27ET's seeker may have a range much greater than 32 km, and in others very much less.

 

Nobody's going to dispute a 50 km range for the AIM-120 either.

[GGTharos]

Może ktoś znowu przetlumaczyc, to bardzo wazne (Who translate? important)

 

Pilot MiGa-29

"Rakieta R-27T jest w pełni autonomiczną rakietą samonaprowadzającą się na źródło ciepła, nie mamy jej (Polskie MiGi nie przenoszą R-27T, MiG-29 9.12) więc trochę podywaguję.

Sygnał z OPrNK przekazywany jest jak wspomniałem do maszyny cyfrowej, tam zapewne następuje wstępne wyliczenie punktu spotkania rakiety z celem, tak się dzieje w przypadku "zwykłego" Alamo (R-27R), po czym po odpaleniu rakieta początkowo podąża w tym kierunku, aż głowica samodzielnie zacznie wprowadzać poprawki"

 

Poza tym, dlaczego zwykly MiG-29 9.12 nie moze przenosic R-27T skoro jego naprowadzanie jest tak proste (niczym nie rozni sie od R-73)?

MiG-29 9.13S lub na ten przyklad Malezyjskie MiGi-29 ktore posiadaja stacje N019M (Topaz-M). Moga przenosic R-77 a takze R-27T. Dopiero od tej wersji stacji N019M jest mozliwe wykorzystnie R-27T/TE. To wskazywalo by jednoznacznie ze istnieje "datalink" dla rakiety R-27T.

 

Ps;

Jak bym napisal jak moze byc jeszcze odpalany R-27R to ED chyba spalilo by mnie na stosie :-)

The operator manual, and explanation from a RUSSIAN pilot, IIRC, said that the datalink signal is NOT generated when a T/ET is launched. ;)

The T/ET does /not/ use the INS for initial target acquisition, only initial steering /post/ acquisition, and even that sounds a little weird.

The R-27R already has a datalink IIRC. The flanker, which uses the SAME radar setup, did not seem to need any particular changes to facilitate datalink for the ER.

The R-77 might require different sorts of data/parameters from the radar however ...