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Killing the engine quite a lot...


Jogui3000

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So, Been flying the P51 for quite a while now... But

 

I always follow the normal takeoff at 3000 RPM and 61 Hg

 

When I finally get airborne, I lower engine RPM and open the radiators (since the coolant's temperature is already way above red...)

 

I do manage to get it back to green, but than, the engine dies...:huh:

 

Anyone knows what am I doing wrong?

PC Specs: RTX 2070 (8GB) + I5-9600K + 32GB RAM.

 

Stuff for the sim: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS + TFRP Rudder pedals, Track IR5.

 

Modules: FC3, A10C, F/A-18C, F16C, F14A/B, MiG-21Bis, AJS-37, F5E, F86F-35, M2000C, Ka-50, P51D, Bf-109K4, Fw-190D9, Spitfire LF Mk IX, L39, CA.

 

Maps: Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy 1944 + WWII Assets Pack.

 

Campaigns: A10C:The Enemy Within.

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Are you by any chance lowering RPM before you lower MaP or even leaving MaP at 61''? Because doing that will inevitably lead to a dead engine.

 

Also, under normal operating conditions you shouldn't need to touch your radiators after take off. An engine that's too cold tends to seize as well and normally, if the temperatures got a bit high during take off, they drop pretty quickly at max continuous settings (2700RPM/46''MaP) once you build up some speed.



CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X | Mobo: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill TridentZ | GPU: Palit RTX3080 Ti 12GB | SSDs: 2xSabrent Rocket 1TB M.2 | Samsung Pro 256GB | Samsung EVO 850 500GB | Samsung QVO 1TB 

Peripherals: Warthog HOTAS | TrackIR 5 | MFG Crosswinds | 3xTM Cougar MFDs | HP Reverb G2
 
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Are you by any chance lowering RPM before you lower MaP or even leaving MaP at 61''? Because doing that will inevitably lead to a dead engine.

 

Also, under normal operating conditions you shouldn't need to touch your radiators after take off. An engine that's too cold tends to seize as well and normally, if the temperatures got a bit high during take off, they drop pretty quickly at max continuous settings (2700RPM/46''MaP) once you build up some speed.

 

Yeah, I was doing just that... thanks

PC Specs: RTX 2070 (8GB) + I5-9600K + 32GB RAM.

 

Stuff for the sim: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS + TFRP Rudder pedals, Track IR5.

 

Modules: FC3, A10C, F/A-18C, F16C, F14A/B, MiG-21Bis, AJS-37, F5E, F86F-35, M2000C, Ka-50, P51D, Bf-109K4, Fw-190D9, Spitfire LF Mk IX, L39, CA.

 

Maps: Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy 1944 + WWII Assets Pack.

 

Campaigns: A10C:The Enemy Within.

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There you go. Always decrease MaP first, then decrease RPM and when you need more power increase RPM first then increase MaP.



CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X | Mobo: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill TridentZ | GPU: Palit RTX3080 Ti 12GB | SSDs: 2xSabrent Rocket 1TB M.2 | Samsung Pro 256GB | Samsung EVO 850 500GB | Samsung QVO 1TB 

Peripherals: Warthog HOTAS | TrackIR 5 | MFG Crosswinds | 3xTM Cougar MFDs | HP Reverb G2
 
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There you go. Always decrease MaP first, then decrease RPM and when you need more power increase RPM first then increase MaP.

 

Thanks again!

PC Specs: RTX 2070 (8GB) + I5-9600K + 32GB RAM.

 

Stuff for the sim: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS + TFRP Rudder pedals, Track IR5.

 

Modules: FC3, A10C, F/A-18C, F16C, F14A/B, MiG-21Bis, AJS-37, F5E, F86F-35, M2000C, Ka-50, P51D, Bf-109K4, Fw-190D9, Spitfire LF Mk IX, L39, CA.

 

Maps: Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy 1944 + WWII Assets Pack.

 

Campaigns: A10C:The Enemy Within.

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Yep, just did it like you told me to, working fine, thanks

PC Specs: RTX 2070 (8GB) + I5-9600K + 32GB RAM.

 

Stuff for the sim: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS + TFRP Rudder pedals, Track IR5.

 

Modules: FC3, A10C, F/A-18C, F16C, F14A/B, MiG-21Bis, AJS-37, F5E, F86F-35, M2000C, Ka-50, P51D, Bf-109K4, Fw-190D9, Spitfire LF Mk IX, L39, CA.

 

Maps: Persian Gulf, NTTR, Normandy 1944 + WWII Assets Pack.

 

Campaigns: A10C:The Enemy Within.

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There you go. Always decrease MaP first, then decrease RPM and when you need more power increase RPM first then increase MaP.

 

It's been my experience that running at 3000 rpm poses the greatest risk to the engine, even at reduced MaPs. I would much prefer to maintain 2700 rpms and switch between 46" and 61" as the situation dictates. I've never had the engine seize using this method, whereas I've lost a few planes while risking 3000.

 

I'm not saying it's strictly right or optimal (any idea how the power output of 2700/61 compares to 3000/46? I'll need to see if there's charts...) but that's been my trial-and-error results so far.

 

I've also had a couple of losses apparently due to being naughty and sticking the radiators to open as part of my start-up procedure on the ground, I delay doing that until entering the dogfight now and no more issues.

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In my experience it's completely fine to run the engine at 3000/61 in DCS as long as the temperatures are within limits. Meaning the engine can't be too hot or too cold. Both will damage the engine at some point regardless of its settings but especially if you're running a cold or hot engine at 3000RPM/61'' and you don't pick up some speed ASAP when it gets too hot and fail to reduce MaP.

 

I know some players like to fight at 2800RPM so 2700/61'' should work as well but I haven't run any tests in that regard, however I do know that if you reduce RPM to cruise settings and stay at a high MaP it will wreck your engine rather quickly

 

I've flown ~2-3h Coop-Missions in the Mustang in the past - some involving bombing an airfield and then defending against german fighters on the way home and never really run into engine problems if I didn't take damage.

 

I remember one in particular mission where we took off with 100% fuel plus 2xbombs, then climbed to 20000ft maintaining around 200mph IAS @2700/46. Then cut back to maximum cruise settings emptying the fuselage tank until we encountered FLAK. We then went back to max continuous. For the attack we used 3000RPM to get the most air resistance from the prop disc during the dives and plenty of power to climb out again. The attack on the airfield itself lasted about 5min max but we then fought some Doras for another 10-15min before finally flying back.



CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X | Mobo: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro | RAM: 64GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill TridentZ | GPU: Palit RTX3080 Ti 12GB | SSDs: 2xSabrent Rocket 1TB M.2 | Samsung Pro 256GB | Samsung EVO 850 500GB | Samsung QVO 1TB 

Peripherals: Warthog HOTAS | TrackIR 5 | MFG Crosswinds | 3xTM Cougar MFDs | HP Reverb G2
 
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In my experience it's completely fine to run the engine at 3000/61 in DCS as long as the temperatures are within limits. Meaning the engine can't be too hot or too cold. Both will damage the engine at some point regardless of its settings but especially if you're running a cold or hot engine at 3000RPM/61'' and you don't pick up some speed ASAP when it gets too hot and fail to reduce MaP.

 

I know some players like to fight at 2800RPM so 2700/61'' should work as well but I haven't run any tests in that regard, however I do know that if you reduce RPM to cruise settings and stay at a high MaP it will wreck your engine rather quickly.

 

I can confirm this from my experience. RPM and MaP should be kept within certain ranges of each other. I find the behaviour of the plane strange though: My engine snaps, the prop immediately stopping to spin. All indicators were green but once the prop blocks, the carb heat shoots up rapidly. Same for the 3000/67" setting. So whenever you overboost the engine, don't go by temperature indicators, they won't warn you about the incoming engine death it seems.

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Very interesting: I never killed the P/51 engine even when running at full power. Yesterday I changed some settings - not the realism settings though - and it all changed.

 

I started a dogfight mission added full power and RPM and the engine died within a minute. The RPM rocketed up to 5000 and bang, it was over.

 

I found these limitations in my manual:

 

WEP: 67" 3000

Takeoff/MIL: 61" 3000

max continuous 46" 2700

 

Is it true in DCS? What are the time limits associated to these? Or should I be checking temperatures instead? I have no idea of the level of engine/ systems modelling in DCS, that is why I`m asking. Thanks!

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I've also had a couple of losses apparently due to being naughty and sticking the radiators to open as part of my start-up procedure on the ground, I delay doing that until entering the dogfight now and no more issues.

 

I'm not sure that you should worry about that. The manual specifically says that leaving the rads open on the ground is proper procedure. Only switch them to auto right before takeoff.

 

"operating. Maintain both flap doors fully OPEN while running the engine on the ground (flap doors will be set to Automatic for takeoff)."

 

Page 124 of the Eagle Dynamics manual.

[DoW]King

Owned Aircraft: P-51D, F-86F, Bf 109 K-4, MiG-15bis, MiG 21bis, Ka-50, Mirage 2000, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, AV8B N/A

HOTAS: Saitek AV8R-01, Saitek X-55 Throttle

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All my fights yesterday ended with belly landings due to engine seizure.

 

What are the "time limits" associated to 6" 3000 RPM? It seems that at 46" I stand no chance catching those 109s. Does the AI use the same FM as us? Do they overheat, or is it like the old Il2?

No, the AI is not overheating and is actually pushing the envelope a bit more than a human would at expert level.

 

Just keep your speed at above 200mph and gain some altitude. I flew nearly a whole sortie at 61' and 3000RPM when I have forgotten to lower the fuel state... so to burn it I was going military power most of the time.

 

If you are fast enough and everything is in auto mode, nothing will happen to your engine. Also, don't move the throttle up too rapidly, especially during a dive.

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My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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No, the AI is not overheating and is actually pushing the envelope a bit more than a human would at expert level.

 

The AI in DCS uses a SFM and damage model. It's why the P-51 in the hands of an AI pilot will continue to fly with zero performance loss after getting hit with five or so 30mm shells.

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I'm not sure that you should worry about that. The manual specifically says that leaving the rads open on the ground is proper procedure. Only switch them to auto right before takeoff.

 

"operating. Maintain both flap doors fully OPEN while running the engine on the ground (flap doors will be set to Automatic for takeoff)."

 

Page 124 of the Eagle Dynamics manual.

 

Interesting, but actually I kept the rads opened through startup, take-off and during flight up until suffering engine failures a few minutes later while running at perfectly safe engine speed/pressure... this happened twice in a row until I just left the rads on auto on the ground (albeit against the advice of the flight manual!). Admittedly there could have been another explanation and I'll do some more trial and error later.

 

The rationale behind setting rads to open instead of auto is that it will overcool while you are at high speed so you have more of a buffer when you are in a dogfight doing vertical manoeuvres etc, I've seen it recommended in a few threads.

 

The AI in DCS uses a SFM and damage model. It's why the P-51 in the hands of an AI pilot will continue to fly with zero performance loss after getting hit with five or so 30mm shells.

 

It's a shame that the AI damage model isn't more detailed. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to implement a flight model that responds to hits by adding extra drag / reducing control based on the surface struck and an element of chance. I'd really like to see the AI limp along when it's damaged.

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All my fights yesterday ended with belly landings due to engine seizure.

 

What are the "time limits" associated to 6" 3000 RPM? It seems that at 46" I stand no chance catching those 109s. Does the AI use the same FM as us? Do they overheat, or is it like the old Il2?

 

Max Duration for 3000 RPM and 61" of MP is 5 minutes.

 

Here is a chart for the engine rating taken from the manual.

b185P7f.jpg

Hardware: Saitek X56, TrackIR, HP Reverb G2

 

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The proper engine settings are not only in the manual, there are on a placard in the aircraft. 61" and 3000 rpm to take off. Always open the radiators for takeoffs. If you follow the placard for different phases of flight, you should be fine. It doesn't get any easier than that.

 

One thing that isn't in there is a combat setting that you can used over a sustained period of time. I've found that if you use 2800 rpms and limit your MP to 50" or so, you can fight for a very long time without overheating, provided you manual open the radiators and leave them open. The auto function doesn't seem to really work IMO. I've rarely had to go over 55" in a fight and if I do, it's not for a long time.

 

Also, if you find in a fight that your engine is starting to warm up, bump the mixture up to rich and it will help to cool it down and keep it cool.


Edited by BSS_Sniper

I9 9900k @ 5ghz water cooled, 32gb ram, GTX 2080ti, 1tb M.2, 2tb hdd, 1000 watt psu TrackIR 5, TM Warthog Stick and Throttle, CH Pedals

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