Satiek combat pedals, toe brake take apart?

[Vlerkies]

Hi Anyone managed to get to the pots in the toebrakes?

 

My one is fubar and I can't get the thing apart to get in there and curious if anyone else has had success with this or is it just a throw away now?

[Sokol1_br]

Is not difficult disassemble rudder pedals (or joysticks) - but require some skill, lot of patience and a good set of tools.

 

Sometimes the problem, is just a broken wire, the original are thin and fragile.

 

Theoretically replace pot's is easy - just need solder 3 wires - if are easy buy replacements, what is not, as joy' pot are made specific for joy' industry, with reduced electrical angle in resistive trail.

 

I use replace the pot's with DIY HALL sensor - a low cost option that can work better than originals pots.

 

But this is laborious, as you need create solutions. Sample on CH PRO pedals (USB controller replaced be a better one too). In this "cornerofthewolrd" this things is very expensive, trow away because some fault is not option. :)

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4193506/Re:_MMJoy/MMjoy2_-_Build_your_#Post4193506

 

This HALL sensor cost 15$ and have similar size of original pot, but will require adaptations in axis.

 

[ame]http://www.bitechnologies.com/pdfs/6120.pdf[/ame]

 

Look at Digikey, Mouser, Farnell...

Edited February 7, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Vlerkies]

Hi Sokol :salute:

 

My problem is I cant seem to get at the pot or the hal in order to work with it.

 

To dis assemble the pedal itself is my problem.

There is a single screw (looking top down) that is easy to remove.

 

The bolts through the pedal itself come loose but wont come out. They may be designed that way.

 

Looking from the bottom up, once the baseplate is removed you can see the wores going up into the pedal for the toe brakes.

Looking very carefully it looks like there are 4 screws that may be coming from the top. But you cant get to them unless you get the pedal assembly itself off.

 

Pins loosened but not able to remove. ALso can see the single screw hole from the top. Removed but not budging anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Looking from the bottom with baseplate removed) In the below image, just above the '2' label on the wire you can see a black plastic bulge. There is one in each corner and I figure 4 screws are coming in from the top. Just cant get to them.

 

 

Im with you on not throwing stuff away. In my corner of the world its R18 to 1 Euro, but I am very tempted to bite the bullet and just order some Crosswind pedals.

 

That will take time, only shipping in April from their site, so would like to get these fixed if anyone knows how to get at the sensor.

 

:thumbup:

Edited February 7, 2016 by Vlerkies

[Sokol1_br]

The system looks similar to CH pedal - but in this you easily remove the foot rest to access the bolts (4) that secure each pot.

 

Looks that when you remove the foot rest will gain access to the 4 bolts that secure the potentiometer.

 

Seems is only this single bold - the one in hole bellow to heel rest - that fix the foot rest in the base, perhaps the assembly guy use this hot glue there. :)

 

In the picture with "2" you see the end (tip) or the head of the bolts? I guess the tip.

 

Anyway, we just need a good excuse for buy a new "toy". :)

Edited February 7, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Vlerkies]

 

Anyway, we just need a good excuse for buy a new "toy". :)

:megalol:

I just built a new machine ofter a mobo going south, really can't afford more toys right now.

 

Anyway, PROGRESS!

 

No need to remove the baseplate and its million screws.

Just the single screw from the top, then the harder part, the metal crimped over the pedal, see first image. (note it took a brandy and a rubber mallet to get it off)

 

Under there a few more screws, then the cover comes off.

 

 

Let the hunt begin.

 

 

Oh, and feel free to offer reasons why I should not cancel my crosswind order now:cry:

:music_whistling:

[Vlerkies]

Ditched the phone and took a better cam out.

 

If anyone can help identifying this pot that would be much appreciated.

 

Only identifying marks are the number and a Logo

 

 

[Sokol1_br]

This complicated thing that turn the brake pot' seems the one in Saitek Aviator that turn the dual throttle pot'.

 

The code in the pot is the pot resistance (50Kb) and the degrees of resistive trail (carbon area) or "electric travel angle" - in the case is 40º, like in this datasheet (other pot model):

 

http://s15.postimg.org/x494q86qj/Pot_1.jpg

 

And this is the problem, this kind of pot' with limited carbon area is done mostly for joystick industry in batch of thousands, you don't find then in Digikey, Mouser, etc.

 

So try buy new direct with Saitek or get from then a seller contact. Mail then.

If their help you buy some dozens for resell. :)

 

Replace this pot with better one, e.g. Bourns, Spectrol... with plastic or ceramic resistive trail (more durable) but with conventional 270 degrees carbon area (electric travel angle) will limit the pedal resolution, because what matter for USB controller, the voltage variation, will be not 0 to ~3,5v (typical in Saitek's) but 0 less than 1v because pot wiper don't move all carbon area extension of 270 degrees but only ~40. Are a workaround for this using voltage amplifier...

 

Probable your best change to buy "joy pot" is CH potentiomers (manufacturated by CTS) - in the past they have a Spare Parts in their site, but after the brand was sold for other group at some years, seems is need know someone that know someone to be eligible for buy. :)

Anyway try in the contact published in CH Hangar. Cost around 10$ each, the "electrical travel angle" seems 60, not perfect for the case but better that 270.

 

If all fail, try DIY HALL sensor. :)

 

And before do other thing, disassemble this pot, inspect the resistive trail - sometimes are cracked - wash with isopropyl alcohol, assembly and test.

 

Disassemble mean this: http://cougar.flyfoxy.com/mods.php#antpot

Edited February 8, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

40º pot:

 

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/4QD-POT-050.html

http://www.tecknowledgey.com/curtis-98191-potentiometer-0-to-5k-ohms.html

 

For electric scooters throttle control:

 

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/tocos-s502-25-2s-throttle-pot.html

 

 

 

[ame]http://www.meditronik.com.pl/doc/plus/pm_rvq24ys07_50_8sb502.pdf[/ame]

 

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Vlerkies]

Thanks Sokol

 

If I get some time tonight I will see if I can get the pot out and strip it to give it a clean.

 

Will also drop Saitek a mail and lets see what they have to say about replacements.

Will update as more info becomes available.

[Vlerkies]

update

 

Pot comes out with little effort, single nut size 10.

Cap off with bending the 4 clasps.

 

 

 

Very fine dirt in there, also what I thought was a crack running from the one wire connector area to the contacts was actually a very fine red fibre.

 

 

Maybe its just dirt related. Looks like some fine scratching on the surface of the carbon area as well but will give it a clean in our lab at work tomorrow with ipa and see.

Also got in touch with a few shops today that deal with this stuff, maybe they can come up with a match or alternative.

 

Sent ticket to madcatz/saitek. No response :doh:

 

Just a note: I was shocked how dirty the pedals were on the inside in the main area when I opened them up.

My cat (RIP) used to love sleeping under the desk on the pedals and I swear there was more cat hair in there than what was on the cat when he was around. The section with the toe brake pot is well sealed though, and the bits of dirt and stuff either get in there from manufacture or just wear and tear from movement.

The pedals are probably 4 or 5 years old I guess, but lots of dirt dust and stuff gets in from the slider area.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Vlerkies

[Hollywood_315]

Thanks for posting this stuff guys - very helpful. My Combat Rudders left toebrake has become noisy and it's jumping all over the place if I inspect it in DCS Config Axis Tune window. No wonder I keep skidding of the runway during landings lately lol.

 

Looks like I'll have to think of some way to dig a way to this pedal stuff deeply buried in my pit which will not be easy considering I forgot to place any kind of maintenance access there for this type of equipment failure :music_whistling:

[Vlerkies]

This is what mine (right toe) looked like before I got a bottle of brandy and stripped it :)

 

 

No solution just yet, but watch this space.

The 'flutter' on the center line main axis, although it seems to be smooth when moving, also doesn't bode well. Combated with deadzone.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Vlerkies

[Sokol1_br]

Do you check these tabs that connect the wires in pot'?

It is a poor contact point. Press then with pliers.

[Vlerkies]

Do you check these tabs that connect the wires in pot'?

It is a poor contact point. Press then with pliers.

 

Yes sir.

 

Although I never tested, they were very firmly attached and took some 'motivation' to remove from the pot. I don't think that was/is the problem.

 

Theres quite a bit of very fine dirt. My eyes are not what they used to be, but when I look at some images from my camera with the macro lense I see lots of stuff that needs to be cleaned up.

Main concern is scarring/marks on the black/carbon area. May just be the pot has said enough is enough.

 

Will clean tomorrow at work and then put it all back together and test.

:thumbup:

[Vlerkies]

A question sokol please.

 

If I cant find an identical match for pots, would it work if I got replacements (both left and right), also 50 ohms, and a similar range (like 50 instead of 40) or would there be a power issue somewhere?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

It wont be a 300 deg pot but something close like 50 or 60 range, then calibration should take care of it no?

[Hollywood_315]

This actually makes me wonder: doesn't some kind of software solution exist to stabilize the DirectX inputs i.e. filter out the noise / spikes from faulty joystick pots?

[Vlerkies]

This actually makes me wonder: doesn't some kind of software solution exist to stabilize the DirectX inputs i.e. filter out the noise / spikes from faulty joystick pots?

 

If the connections or signal from those inputs is so erratic, software wont help.

 

Flutter can be fixed with a deadzone, which is in most software packages, but when the controller is transmitting, then not, then transmitting again for whatever reason, you are largely swimming upstream.

[Vlerkies]

Not a good image, but gives some idea of the stuff on the contact surface.

 

Almost looks like lubricant.

 

[Hollywood_315]

If the connections or signal from those inputs is so erratic, software wont help.

 

Flutter can be fixed with a deadzone, which is in most software packages, but when the controller is transmitting, then not, then transmitting again for whatever reason, you are largely swimming upstream.

Gotcha - guess there'll be no avoiding the painful hardware route lol

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-P7300 met Tapatalk

[Vlerkies]

Gotcha - guess there'll be no avoiding the painful hardware route lol

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-P7300 met Tapatalk

 

The thing is, its not to painful at all. If I had a replacement pot, now that I know how to take this thing to pieces, maybe 30 minutes of my life will be spent on it.

I would just as a matter of course, replace all the pots at the same time, no more than 1 hour.

Why I have to look for workarounds, for hardware that is still in production, is, quite frankly, beyond comprehension. Thrustmaster would never do that.

 

I gather you have a pit and can't access easily from what you describe so yeah, some pain your way :)

 

Problem is, Saitek/madcatz, not seeming to offer the spares.

 

That's all fine, flight simmers have a memory better than any elephant and will vote with their feet.

[Hollywood_315]

Why I have to look for workarounds, for hardware that is still in production, is, quite frankly, beyond comprehension. That's all fine, flight simmers have a memory better than any elephant and will vote with their feet.

 

Hear hear :D

 

Thanks again for sharing this useful info - saving others lots of work

Will be following with interest

[Sokol1_br]

If I cant find an identical match for pots, would it work if I got replacements (both left and right), also 50 ohms, and a similar range (like 50 instead of 40) or would there be a power issue somewhere?

 

The 50 Kb not imperative, you can use a bit less or more (usually USB controllers are able to use pot in 10-100kb range), but this value in pot is easy to find.

 

The USB controller dont use the pot resistance - the 50Kb - but the voltage variation across the resistive trail, wheres the angle became a issue.

 

A little more angle (electrical travel angle) 50 or 60 instead 40 is not big issue, will reduce the resolution point but not significantly, but 270 (most commonly) is almost 7 times more.

 

The other factor is the pot axis, you need one with same diameter, same length and D recess position - if used - don't see the axis in your pictures.

 

Because you need fit the new pot in the same place, so the same dimensions, make adjustments in the pot "dock", or in the pot axis 'would be complicated.

 

Over the pot trail is applied some grease, to minimize pot wear, but the grease tend attract dirt. Why wash the pot with Isopropyl alcohol (or electronic cleanup spray) and test*, if are OK, apply some silicon grease after.

 

This thread - in R/C forum - is about the same "drama" , the lack of pot' for replace in R/C Transmitters (now they start use HALL sensor too).

 

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26779452&postcount=6

Edited February 8, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Vlerkies]

Sokol, gotcha buddy, that makes sense.

 

Thank you again for your input

:thumbup:

[Sokol1_br]

BTW - The pot used by Saitek is made by Polyshine in China, look the symbol:

 

http://www.polyshine.cn/default.aspx

 

But their "Joystick potentiometer" line dont have this metal case used in Saitek's...

 

http://www.polyshine.cn/Type_37.html

 

The F10KV model have the limited angles options:

 

[ame]http://www.polyshine.cn/uploadFile/F10KV-2013-12-23-03-27-55.pdf[/ame]

 

The "easy" way do deal with this:

 

 

Although "easy" in theory is PITA place the sensor in the right position, centered with magnet field, because they are minuscule (<2x2mm) and register even you

breath. :D

Edited February 8, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Headwarp]

:megalol:

Oh, and feel free to offer reasons why I should not cancel my crosswind order now:cry:

:music_whistling:

 

Because your crosswinds will be hall sensors, with insane resolutions and the spring tension being adjustable with it's magnificent around the center cam profile is going to blow those combat pedals away. :P Not to mention being adjustable by replacing the cam.. not to mention nothing's being held together by plastic.

 

If those combat pedals are anything like my pro flight pedals were.. Crosswinds will be miles ahead of them in construction and performance afaik tell. But if you want, I'll tell you more about how I feel about them when I get mine in March.