Jump to content

Ground handling


Reflected

Recommended Posts

One of the weak points of DCS IMO is ground handling. But perhaps I`m doing something wrong:

 

I find it weird that even a tiny amount of throttle makes the P-51 taxi at relatively high speeds. As if it had no weight on the ground.

 

When the tailwheel is locked, the Mustang behaves OK when taxiing.

 

When I unlock the tailwheel and give rudder input, the plane doesn`t start to turn. This is weird. When I tap on one of the brakes, it starts turning, but then the turn is unstoppable with the rudder.

 

It all feels a little unnatural to me, what about you guys?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the weak points of DCS IMO is ground handling. But perhaps I`m doing something wrong:

 

I find it weird that even a tiny amount of throttle makes the P-51 taxi at relatively high speeds. As if it had no weight on the ground.

 

When the tailwheel is locked, the Mustang behaves OK when taxiing.

 

When I unlock the tailwheel and give rudder input, the plane doesn`t start to turn. This is weird. When I tap on one of the brakes, it starts turning, but then the turn is unstoppable with the rudder.

 

It all feels a little unnatural to me, what about you guys?

 

I hear you reflected....

 

Honestly, and after having had the chance to taxi our PA18.... and based on many other factors and information accumulated along years of flightsimming and rw flying ( in gliders only ) I guess the correct handling is somewhere between DCS and that other sim you also used reflected.... None does, IMO, a "perfect" job at recreating the tail surface authority due to propwash at taxi speeds and power settings, specially in the p51d... One shows less authority than I would expect, the other way too much IMO... Something in between would be great to have....

 

As much as FSX's flight dynamics can be considered in some aspects inferior to whatever we have in these ww2 sims, truth is the way, for instance, my A2A p51d behaved while taxiing was more credible / plausible to me...

 

reflected, I believe the "problem" is not on you ;-)

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To stop a wheel brake turn, you have to tap the opposite wheel's brake.

 

If you are turning right and tapping the right wheel brake, once the turn has been completed you should stop the turn by tapping the left wheel brake.

 

Thanks, this part is clear. What I find strange is how I cannot initiate a ground turn without brakes, only rudder even with the tailwheel unlocked. And also the fact that a tiny bit of throttle is enough to make the Mustang lurch forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, this part is clear. What I find strange is how I cannot initiate a ground turn without brakes, only rudder even with the tailwheel unlocked. And also the fact that a tiny bit of throttle is enough to make the Mustang lurch forward.

 

Oh my apologies.

Could it be maybe because the rudder is cloth? I know almost nothing about aerodynamics I don't know if that would make a difference. The engine wants to lurch on the ground because you should have your prop rpm advanced all the way on the ground. Could have something to do with the governor taking over as well?

 

Once again, I don't know the answer for sure, just throwing out my best guess.

Hardware: Saitek X56, TrackIR, HP Reverb G2

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is not enough airflow over the control surfaces, including the tail rudder, to affect steering while taxiing. You must use the brakes to steer while taxiing with the tail wheel unlocked and freely castoring.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is not enough airflow over the control surfaces, including the tail rudder, to affect steering while taxiing. You must use the brakes to steer while taxiing with the tail wheel unlocked and freely castoring.

 

There should be some, because of the prop wash. Is it not modeled in DCS?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well "some" is a pretty inexact amount :smilewink:. There may be some affect of prop wash over the tail, but remember you have to overcome inertia plus ground friction, so the affects may be completely lost on those.

 

This is not a phenomena with the P-51D; this is how it is with all tail-draggers. In fact, from what I've read, it's even worse on some aircraft like the T-10 trainer, which doesn't have a locking tail wheel and has a tendency to be unstable while taxiing too, so you have to learn to be constantly aware of the airframe's motion and keep it under control with small taps to the brakes at all times while taxiing.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the tailwheel unlocked and the rudder fully pushed the plane should start turning when some throttle is applied. In DCS they don`t. This is the wrong part. It`s too stable.

 

If the turn cannot be stopped by rudder only, that is somewhat believable.

 

Again, it`s as if the prop wash effect was totally missing.

Just like ground friction. The FSX Accu Sim Mustang requires 20-30% of throttle when taxiing. This matches my experience too. In DCS, 3-4% is enough to move. I findi t highly unbelievable.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1

 

-*

With the tailwheel unlocked and the rudder fully pushed the plane should start turning when some throttle is applied. In DCS they don`t. This is the wrong part. It`s too stable.

 

If the turn cannot be stopped by rudder only, that is somewhat believable.

 

Again, it`s as if the prop wash effect was totally missing.

Just like ground friction. The FSX Accu Sim Mustang requires 20-30% of throttle when taxiing. This matches my experience too. In DCS, 3-4% is enough to move. I findi t highly unbelievable.

 

 

I share your thoughts reflected.

Just as I did with Klaus Plasa, I also exchanged a few messages with Dudley Henriques, and he confirmed pretty much what you pointed out above, and I also think...

The same sensation of "lightness" also applies to the 109 K-4. I can taxi it more or less acceptably only with te stick pulled full back, when I believe the tail heavy Bf109s required stick ahead for tighter turns in order to unload the tail wheel...


Edited by jcomm

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ground handling here seems closer to real than other sims IMO. If you're going straight down a taxiway, there's no reason to unlock the tailwheel. Only unlock it to make sharp turns.

 

Also, what are you calling 3-4%? Give us a MP setting that gets the plane rolling. I see that I have to give myself 20-25" to get rolling, not 3-4%.

I9 9900k @ 5ghz water cooled, 32gb ram, GTX 2080ti, 1tb M.2, 2tb hdd, 1000 watt psu TrackIR 5, TM Warthog Stick and Throttle, CH Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Well first, if you are judging the release P-51, I would note there is an issue with it currently that may or may not effect that ground handling feeling. You should be able to find the thread in here about it.

 

Secondly, the P-51 was tested, and input given by real P-51 pilots, I am fine with ED telling me thats the way it handles because I wont ever taxi a real P-51 and I have no reason to believe they would shortcut the ground handling after so much work into the FM.

 

I hope the P-51 fixes make it into 1.5.3 (I havent checked 2.0.1 to see if they are there yet thought )

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ground handling here seems closer to real than other sims IMO. If you're going straight down a taxiway, there's no reason to unlock the tailwheel. Only unlock it to make sharp turns.

 

Also, what are you calling 3-4%? Give us a MP setting that gets the plane rolling. I see that I have to give myself 20-25" to get rolling, not 3-4%.

 

Interesting pint! I tested it vs FSX. Both Mustangs start rolling at around 20" and at 30" they lurch forward quite a bit. In FSX this occurs with my slider axis around 40%, in DCS I only have to open it to ~5%. That's what got me confused. :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting pint! I tested it vs FSX. Both Mustangs start rolling at around 20" and at 30" they lurch forward quite a bit. In FSX this occurs with my slider axis around 40%, in DCS I only have to open it to ~5%. That's what got me confused. :thumbup:

 

Yes reflected - make the axis "slider" instead of a normal axis, in the axis tuning menu - it will travel more closely to what we have in FSX :-)

 

I also set the toe brakes to a "slider" type axis, and set a curve at 60%, to avoid having a very brisk response when I apply them during taxi, specially in the K4 that easily prop strikes.

 

K4 toe brakes really require some fine tuning - I believe they're modeled to effective, and RL descriptions mention ( including Eric Brown's words ) that full brakes could be applied during takeoff rollout without fearing a prop strike.

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

K-4 got higher tailwheel maby these is a reason for easly prop strikes? Higher or longer tailwheel could casue more drift effect during taxi? Generally 109 got heavy tail on the ground and pilot could use full brakes without too much risk of prop strike contrary to e.x. Spitfire.

 

BTW found suprisly that 109 ground turns in BOS is very accurate done - it required proper technik - add throttle, kick rudder and stick forward ( too lightened tail)


Edited by Kwiatek
Link to comment
Share on other sites

K-4 got higher tailwheel maby these is a reason for easly prop strikes? Higher or longer tailwheel could casue more drift effect during taxi? Generally 109 got heavy tail on the ground and pilot could use full brakes without too much risk of prop strike contrary to e.x. Spitfire.

 

BTW found suprisly that 109 ground turns in BOS is very accurate done - it required proper technik - add throttle, kick rudder and stick forward ( too lightened tail)

 

I agree Kwiatek, but let's wait for the final fine tuning of the k4 release version ....

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...