Reflected Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 One of the weak points of DCS IMO is ground handling. But perhaps I`m doing something wrong: I find it weird that even a tiny amount of throttle makes the P-51 taxi at relatively high speeds. As if it had no weight on the ground. When the tailwheel is locked, the Mustang behaves OK when taxiing. When I unlock the tailwheel and give rudder input, the plane doesn`t start to turn. This is weird. When I tap on one of the brakes, it starts turning, but then the turn is unstoppable with the rudder. It all feels a little unnatural to me, what about you guys? Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 One of the weak points of DCS IMO is ground handling. But perhaps I`m doing something wrong: I find it weird that even a tiny amount of throttle makes the P-51 taxi at relatively high speeds. As if it had no weight on the ground. When the tailwheel is locked, the Mustang behaves OK when taxiing. When I unlock the tailwheel and give rudder input, the plane doesn`t start to turn. This is weird. When I tap on one of the brakes, it starts turning, but then the turn is unstoppable with the rudder. It all feels a little unnatural to me, what about you guys? I hear you reflected.... Honestly, and after having had the chance to taxi our PA18.... and based on many other factors and information accumulated along years of flightsimming and rw flying ( in gliders only ) I guess the correct handling is somewhere between DCS and that other sim you also used reflected.... None does, IMO, a "perfect" job at recreating the tail surface authority due to propwash at taxi speeds and power settings, specially in the p51d... One shows less authority than I would expect, the other way too much IMO... Something in between would be great to have.... As much as FSX's flight dynamics can be considered in some aspects inferior to whatever we have in these ww2 sims, truth is the way, for instance, my A2A p51d behaved while taxiing was more credible / plausible to me... reflected, I believe the "problem" is not on you ;-) Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I agree about the Accu sim Mustang. That one behaves in a very plausible way on the ground...but not in the air :) Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 IMO, nothing compares to the level of detail we get in DCS, overall - it's by far my preferred flight dynamics sim... Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DblAAssassin Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 To stop a wheel brake turn, you have to tap the opposite wheel's brake. If you are turning right and tapping the right wheel brake, once the turn has been completed you should stop the turn by tapping the left wheel brake. Hardware: Saitek X56, TrackIR, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 To stop a wheel brake turn, you have to tap the opposite wheel's brake. If you are turning right and tapping the right wheel brake, once the turn has been completed you should stop the turn by tapping the left wheel brake. Thanks, this part is clear. What I find strange is how I cannot initiate a ground turn without brakes, only rudder even with the tailwheel unlocked. And also the fact that a tiny bit of throttle is enough to make the Mustang lurch forward. Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DblAAssassin Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Thanks, this part is clear. What I find strange is how I cannot initiate a ground turn without brakes, only rudder even with the tailwheel unlocked. And also the fact that a tiny bit of throttle is enough to make the Mustang lurch forward. Oh my apologies. Could it be maybe because the rudder is cloth? I know almost nothing about aerodynamics I don't know if that would make a difference. The engine wants to lurch on the ground because you should have your prop rpm advanced all the way on the ground. Could have something to do with the governor taking over as well? Once again, I don't know the answer for sure, just throwing out my best guess. Hardware: Saitek X56, TrackIR, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Orso Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 There is not enough airflow over the control surfaces, including the tail rudder, to affect steering while taxiing. You must use the brakes to steer while taxiing with the tail wheel unlocked and freely castoring. When you hit the wrong button on take-off System Specs. Spoiler System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27" CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 There is not enough airflow over the control surfaces, including the tail rudder, to affect steering while taxiing. You must use the brakes to steer while taxiing with the tail wheel unlocked and freely castoring. There should be some, because of the prop wash. Is it not modeled in DCS? Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Orso Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Well "some" is a pretty inexact amount :smilewink:. There may be some affect of prop wash over the tail, but remember you have to overcome inertia plus ground friction, so the affects may be completely lost on those. This is not a phenomena with the P-51D; this is how it is with all tail-draggers. In fact, from what I've read, it's even worse on some aircraft like the T-10 trainer, which doesn't have a locking tail wheel and has a tendency to be unstable while taxiing too, so you have to learn to be constantly aware of the airframe's motion and keep it under control with small taps to the brakes at all times while taxiing. When you hit the wrong button on take-off System Specs. Spoiler System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27" CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 With the tailwheel unlocked and the rudder fully pushed the plane should start turning when some throttle is applied. In DCS they don`t. This is the wrong part. It`s too stable. If the turn cannot be stopped by rudder only, that is somewhat believable. Again, it`s as if the prop wash effect was totally missing. Just like ground friction. The FSX Accu Sim Mustang requires 20-30% of throttle when taxiing. This matches my experience too. In DCS, 3-4% is enough to move. I findi t highly unbelievable. 1 Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) 1 -*With the tailwheel unlocked and the rudder fully pushed the plane should start turning when some throttle is applied. In DCS they don`t. This is the wrong part. It`s too stable. If the turn cannot be stopped by rudder only, that is somewhat believable. Again, it`s as if the prop wash effect was totally missing. Just like ground friction. The FSX Accu Sim Mustang requires 20-30% of throttle when taxiing. This matches my experience too. In DCS, 3-4% is enough to move. I findi t highly unbelievable. I share your thoughts reflected. Just as I did with Klaus Plasa, I also exchanged a few messages with Dudley Henriques, and he confirmed pretty much what you pointed out above, and I also think... The same sensation of "lightness" also applies to the 109 K-4. I can taxi it more or less acceptably only with te stick pulled full back, when I believe the tail heavy Bf109s required stick ahead for tighter turns in order to unload the tail wheel... Edited February 11, 2016 by jcomm Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSS_Sniper Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 The ground handling here seems closer to real than other sims IMO. If you're going straight down a taxiway, there's no reason to unlock the tailwheel. Only unlock it to make sharp turns. Also, what are you calling 3-4%? Give us a MP setting that gets the plane rolling. I see that I have to give myself 20-25" to get rolling, not 3-4%. I9 9900k @ 5ghz water cooled, 32gb ram, GTX 2080ti, 1tb M.2, 2tb hdd, 1000 watt psu TrackIR 5, TM Warthog Stick and Throttle, CH Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted February 11, 2016 ED Team Share Posted February 11, 2016 Well first, if you are judging the release P-51, I would note there is an issue with it currently that may or may not effect that ground handling feeling. You should be able to find the thread in here about it. Secondly, the P-51 was tested, and input given by real P-51 pilots, I am fine with ED telling me thats the way it handles because I wont ever taxi a real P-51 and I have no reason to believe they would shortcut the ground handling after so much work into the FM. I hope the P-51 fixes make it into 1.5.3 (I havent checked 2.0.1 to see if they are there yet thought ) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflected Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 The ground handling here seems closer to real than other sims IMO. If you're going straight down a taxiway, there's no reason to unlock the tailwheel. Only unlock it to make sharp turns. Also, what are you calling 3-4%? Give us a MP setting that gets the plane rolling. I see that I have to give myself 20-25" to get rolling, not 3-4%. Interesting pint! I tested it vs FSX. Both Mustangs start rolling at around 20" and at 30" they lurch forward quite a bit. In FSX this occurs with my slider axis around 40%, in DCS I only have to open it to ~5%. That's what got me confused. :thumbup: Facebook Instagram YouTube Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Interesting pint! I tested it vs FSX. Both Mustangs start rolling at around 20" and at 30" they lurch forward quite a bit. In FSX this occurs with my slider axis around 40%, in DCS I only have to open it to ~5%. That's what got me confused. :thumbup: Yes reflected - make the axis "slider" instead of a normal axis, in the axis tuning menu - it will travel more closely to what we have in FSX :-) I also set the toe brakes to a "slider" type axis, and set a curve at 60%, to avoid having a very brisk response when I apply them during taxi, specially in the K4 that easily prop strikes. K4 toe brakes really require some fine tuning - I believe they're modeled to effective, and RL descriptions mention ( including Eric Brown's words ) that full brakes could be applied during takeoff rollout without fearing a prop strike. Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwiatek Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) K-4 got higher tailwheel maby these is a reason for easly prop strikes? Higher or longer tailwheel could casue more drift effect during taxi? Generally 109 got heavy tail on the ground and pilot could use full brakes without too much risk of prop strike contrary to e.x. Spitfire. BTW found suprisly that 109 ground turns in BOS is very accurate done - it required proper technik - add throttle, kick rudder and stick forward ( too lightened tail) Edited February 13, 2016 by Kwiatek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 K-4 got higher tailwheel maby these is a reason for easly prop strikes? Higher or longer tailwheel could casue more drift effect during taxi? Generally 109 got heavy tail on the ground and pilot could use full brakes without too much risk of prop strike contrary to e.x. Spitfire. BTW found suprisly that 109 ground turns in BOS is very accurate done - it required proper technik - add throttle, kick rudder and stick forward ( too lightened tail) I agree Kwiatek, but let's wait for the final fine tuning of the k4 release version .... Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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