StrongHarm Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Never thought I'd see cluster bombs dropped on a city in modern times. ROE seems to be as loose as this dispersal pattern. I wonder if the city was evacuated and confirmed to be combatants only. [ame=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86e_1455565360]LiveLeak.com - SU-34 attacks Haritan with two cluster bomb strikes[/ame] It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milli Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Various cities have been bombed with CBU's from the air and also from MRL's many times over the years. Its just that seeing it on a video makes it look rather shocking, which it is. Edited February 16, 2016 by Milli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 One of the reasons we are in the current predicament is the to restrictive RoE. Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Never thought I'd see cluster bombs dropped on a city in modern times It happens regularly, it just doesn't get much coverage. It's not a great photo, but it shows Haret Hreik in Lebanon pretty much wiped off the map by the IDF during the 2006 conflict. Haaretz quotes IDF officers to say the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets during that engagement. On our TV we see the Russians dropping cluster bombs on the militants fighting the government forces in cities in Syria. In Russia they're watching video of Saudi's dropping cluster bombs on militants fighting the Yemeni government forces in cities in Yemen. https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/07/yemen-coalition-drops-cluster-bombs-capital-0 I doubt "the city was evacuated and confirmed to be combatants only." in this case either. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrongHarm Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 I just remember my time in the U.S. Military where there was frustration over having to strike with expensive precision bombs multiple times, rather than heavy ordnance, in an effort to prevent collateral damage. If there was a mosque, hospital, or school within 5klicks forget about it. I guess it's a product of war weariness and unreasonable political oversight. Cluster bombs are definitely the way to get the job done... unless you're a civie in the wrong place at the wrong time.. but then again I personally would make sure my family was waaay behind the line at all times. This isn't the place to talk about the horrors of war though.. we're more interested in the technology of it. Which is good. :) It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weta43 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 :-) Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNice Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I just remember my time in the U.S. Military where there was frustration over having to strike with expensive precision bombs multiple times, rather than heavy ordnance, in an effort to prevent collateral damage. If there was a mosque, hospital, or school within 5klicks forget about it. I guess it's a product of war weariness and unreasonable political oversight. Cluster bombs are definitely the way to get the job done... unless you're a civie in the wrong place at the wrong time.. but then again I personally would make sure my family was waaay behind the line at all times. This isn't the place to talk about the horrors of war though.. we're more interested in the technology of it. Which is good. :) Hard to stay behind the 'line', when it's constantly being changed and brought to you. Also, if you watch more in-depth coverage, many city districts and towns under rebel/terrorist/ISIS rule in Syria have become ghost cities, and practically fortresses for them. Edited February 17, 2016 by DNice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Can anyone recognize the aircraft type? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyre Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Can anyone recognize the aircraft type? Looks like a Su-34 to me. Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills. If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! "If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Can anyone recognize the aircraft type? Su-24 ? Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoflSeal Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Su-24 ? Can't be Su-24, it clearly has canards, its either Su-30 or Su-34, though my bets hedge on the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyre Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 View it in full screen. The plane is only really identifiable for a few seconds. Its definitely a Su-34 Fullback. Identifying features are the wide front fuselage, canards, widely separated engines and long tail boom. Su-34 Su-24M Truly superior pilots are those that use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills. If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! "If at first you don't succeed, Carrier Landings are not for you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 That's interesting. Do they really risk their Fullbacks in such low level attacks? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Since their enemies are in most cases either unarmed, or armed with small arms only I wouldn't say it is very risky. They appear and disappear quickly. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardo7 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The use of CBU's is now banned by most armed forces now due to the friendly fire and collateral damage risk. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcatter Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The use of CBU's is now banned by most armed forces now due to the friendly fire and collateral damage risk. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That´s right. They are prohibited under the Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM) that prohibits the use, transfer and stockpile of CBUs. 108 countries has signed the CCM, it is a shame that China, Israel, The United States, India, Brazil and Pakistan aren´t part of it, basically for economics reasons. It is dreadful to see this arms used against a civilian target, and a cowardly behavior by those that order it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) No problem with the weapon it works as intended. The enemy doesn't follow the Geneva convention they are the cowards hiding within the civilian populace. Not a shame one bit, you obviously have no idea what's going on their and will do the typical lazy boy expert comment like above. Economic reasons Jesus Seriously Edited February 18, 2016 by NineLine 1.1 1 Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardo7 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 That´s right. They are prohibited under the Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM) that prohibits the use, transfer and stockpile of CBUs. 108 countries has signed the CCM, it is a shame that China, Israel, The United States, India, Brazil and Pakistan aren´t part of it, basically for economics reasons. It is dreadful to see this arms used against a civilian target, and a cowardly behavior by those that order it. That's it the CCM I couldn't remember the name of the treaty off the top of my head Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geert Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) No problem with the weapon it works as intended. The enemy doesn't follow the Geneva convention they are the cowards hiding within the civilian populace. Not a shame one bit, you obviously have no idea what's going on their and will do the typical lazy boy expert comment like above. Are you making a case for war crimes or genocide? Economic reasons Jesus Seriously Well, apparently there is this thing called the "military industrial complex" [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5jDi9WYsYs[/ame] Edited February 18, 2016 by NineLine 1.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probad Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Are you making a case for war crimes or genocide? maybe. one aspect of the modern concept of "war crime" came as a way to further solidifying the allies' support base in and after ww2, and then this later took on a life of its own. it is as silly as it is hypocritical to threaten an argument with the charge of it being a thought crime. anyways, as i see it, war is waged for an objective and so the only crime in war is not winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduro14 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Like I said you clearly have no concept of what is actually happening on the ground. That's the last I'll comment on it. Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cik Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) i'd have to know what city it is exactly but you have to remember that many of these "cities" have essentially zero civilians remaining due to how long the war has gone on. anyway, a blanket ban on cluster munitions seems dumb because what's the difference really between a clusterbomb and a few big HE ones? what means something is not the weapon you are using, but who you are pointing it at. the whole reason cluster was banned was not because it's a horrifically brutal weapon (it's basically just HE bomblets) where it pales in comparison to nuclear biological chemical, but because a percentage of the bomblets would fail to detonate and create minefields that would kill children and other noncombatants later when they accidentally picked one out of the ground at the site of an old battlefield. this is a technological problem that can be overcome, so designating cluster as some sort of proscribed entirely amoral seems silly. tl;dr i don't really see any proof that civilians were killed in this attack. i just see buildings being hit by a russian bomb which happens hundreds of times a day in the theater. maybe if it was recorded 3 years earlier would i worry about civilians being killed in bombing attacks against syrian cities, but as it stands most of the ones being bombed have long been under the control of military force(s) operating in the region. Edited February 18, 2016 by Cik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 ^And we have a winner...^ Lord of Salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svend_Dellepude Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 All weapons are brutal in case anyone should have missed it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cik Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 ^And we have a winner...^ >that >political if that's political the video and the whole thread is i'm talking about weapons used in war and the military situation in a country. it has nothing to do with politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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