HUD issues

[Swordfish]

Since the latest patch and switching to standalone, im fiding my hud font to be incredibly large, so that all the data does not appear on it, I have to shift my view side to side to see my waypoint info for example.. Is there a setting to alter this?

[Wrecking Crew]

Reset it with Num-5 and Num-Enter.

 

WC

[Swordfish]

I think you misunderstand. My camera view is no problem. The actual hud text is very large. in IFFC test. there are some line that dissapear off the hud as they do not fit in the space. All I see looking forwards is the ladder, ALT and speed indications are off to the side, forcing me to my my camera horizontally to see them

[Zabuzard]

I don't have this problem, maybe try a repair.

[lawsjr]

I know what you are talking about. When you get the pilot head position where it should be you can't see all of the hud. The way DCS has the pilot in the seat is way to forward. If you look at the seat back where your butt sits you should not have to look behind you to adjust the radio. Also when sitting in the plane you should be able to see most of the front panel not just the upper portion. Not sure how to fix this, but wish someone would

[guitarxe]

Various elements of the HUD can be re-positioned and the HUD itself can be scaled.

Let me clarify I am understanding the problem correctly, is this below what you are referring to?

https://i.imgur.com/1ek4Nre.jpg

And if we move it to the left a bit, will that be better for you?

https://i.imgur.com/8pT8oyi.jpg

[lawsjr]

well I have a 3 monitor set up and yes I would like to know how to scale it and move it but don't know were to do that. Where is that at?

[guitarxe]

Right, so this is all assuming DCS 1.5, if you are using DCS 2.0 let me know I will have to download it and check if it's all the same, but it probably is.

 

It looks like HUD scale can be controlled by a single value in this file:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\HUD\Indicator\HUD_definitions.lua

 

Someone had actually made a sort of "mod" for it - http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=95797 , but that's not really required, you can make the changes on your own. Just be sure to backup any of the files you'll be modifying.

 

For the HUD scale, open the HUD_definitions.lua file at the above path (use a text editing software like Notepad++ or similar for much easier use).

 

Find this line

 

old_K = 73.5
new_K = 73.5

 

It will be at the top of the file. The value you want to change is "new_K". Bigger values produce a smaller HUD font size. Smaller values produce a bigger HUD font size. For example:

 

old_K = 73.5

new_K = 90

 

Will make the HUD font even smaller than default. And this:

 

 

old_K = 73.5

new_K = 49

 

Will make it much larger, which is what I personally use. You can try a value in-between or whatever you want really, just play around with it until you feel it comfortable.

 

 

Now to change the positioning of the elements on the HUD you need to modify different file. That whole info block at the bottom right of the HUD is actually two parts - waypoint information as well as the Radar Altimeter, and they are separate things in different files. The Radar Altimeter info doesn't really get cut-off so you can ignore it if you want to, but if you want the whole block to all line-up then you'll have to move it as well.

 

Open this file:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\HUD\Indicator\HUD_NOCLIP_SYM_page.lua

 

Find this block of code, it starts on line 70 and ends on line 104:

 

AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Steer_Point_Number_ID", 
			  {{"steer_point_number_id_txt", 0.1667}},
			  {[b][color="Red"]70[/color][/b], -76.5, 0.0}, 
			  nil,
			  HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
			  "LeftCenter")

AddHUDTextElement_Pos_Formats("SPDis_to_go_Num_Targ_Elev", 
			  {{"SPDis_to_go_Num_Targ_Elev_txt", 0.1667}}, 
			  {[b][color="red"]70[/color][/b], -89, 0.0}, 
			  nil,
			  HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
			  "LeftCenter",
			  {"%s", "/", "%d", "DTS", "XXXX"})		  
			  
AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Time_on_Target", 
			  {{"Time_on_Target_txt"}}, 
			  {[b][color="red"]70[/color][/b], -101.5, 0.0}, 
			  nil,
			  HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
			  "LeftCenter")				  				  

AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Current_Time", 
			  {{"hack_mode", 1}, {"Current_Time_txt"}}, 
			  {[b][color="red"]70[/color][/b], -114, 0.0}, 
			  nil,
			  HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
			  "LeftCenter")

HackTime		= AddHUDTextElement_Pos("HackTime",
			  {{"hack_mode", 2}, {"Time_to_Target_txt"}}, 
			  {[b][color="Red"]70[/color][/b], -114, 0},
			  nil,
			  HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
			  "LeftCenter")		

 

What you are interested in here is the number I've bolded and colored red, which is "70" for all. This is the x-coordinate for the position of the element on the HUD. 0 in the middle of the HUD. So smaller numbers will move it to the left, and bigger numbers will move it to the right. If you fancy moving it to the left side of the HUD, then continue below zero into negative numbers.

The value that I used to show on the screenshot was "55" for each. So in my file it looks like this:

{55, -114, 0}

 

Also if you fancy moving it up or down, then modify the second value. Again, the center of the HUD is 0 and by default it sits below the center so it's negative. To move up use bigger numbers, to move down use smaller numbers.

 

 

Now after you move that, your Radar Altimeter reading will still stay where it was and this might bother you because then it won't align nicely with the waypoint info below it, so you may want to move it to the same horizontal position.

To do this, open this file:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\HUD\Indicator\HUD_COMMON_page.lua

 

Then find this code, it's on lines 1022 to 1027:

 

AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Radar_Altitude_Numerics", 
			  {{"radar_altitude_numerics_txt"}}, 
			  {[b][color="red"]70[/color][/b], -64, 0.0}, 
			  nil,
			  HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
			  "LeftCenter")

 

And again change the value of the bolded, red-coloured part, which is 70 by default (same as the waypoint elements were). Change that to be the same value that you used for the waypoint values to make it align exactly on the HUD. I had mine at 55 for the screenshot, but you can use whatever values you want. Smaller numbers will move it to the left, and bigger numbers will move it to the right.

 

Save all files and start the game and you should see your changes once the HUD is active and showing info (just use create fast mission and start at runway for a quick check).

[lawsjr]

Is there a way to scale the pitch ladder as well?

[guitarxe]

From what I was seeing it doesn't look like you can scale individual HUD elements independently, but maybe there is another way, I will see what's possible. Are you trying to make it bigger or smaller?

[lawsjr]

Smaller to match the other items in the hud.

[lawsjr]

This is what I am looking at. The head position seems more normal for me from a flying stand point. You do not sit on top of the front panel.

[guitarxe]

Ah ok, yeah, but you want to keep all the other parts of the HUD the same size as it is? You don't want them any smaller? Because if you set the "new_k" value that I showed in the previous post to 73.5 or bigger, like 80, then the pitch ladder I think will be a good size, can you give that a try?

 

I also can't actually see the pitch ladder on that screenshot, I think it's off to the site, a bit, you're flying in a strong cross-wind?

[lawsjr]

Yea it was a strong cross wind.. That is with everything set at

old_K = 73.5

new_K = 75.5 --44.

 

The heading should be lower and not sure how to move that. and the text on the left and right should be smaller and moved in some.. the Pitch ladder wasn't really that bad. Next time will try to get it more in the center

[Windsortheater]

I know what you are talking about. When you get the pilot head position where it should be you can't see all of the hud. The way DCS has the pilot in the seat is way to forward. If you look at the seat back where your butt sits you should not have to look behind you to adjust the radio. Also when sitting in the plane you should be able to see most of the front panel not just the upper portion. Not sure how to fix this, but wish someone would

 

+1+1+1... same thing on A-10A. I just went to 4K and this is a big problem now. If I position eye point at the actual eye point of the virtual pilot using CTRL -ALT-/ OR * I get a perfect FOV and positional awareness. But the HUD image is blown up beyond the borders of the HUD frame

 

I tried the text scaling mod but it just shrinks the text of each element keeping its positon, it does not actually make the overall HUD projected image / area any smaller.

 

Can someone help (PeterP?). This is a must have for 4K.

[=Mac=]

I sit just a bit too far back to get the entire HUD correctly. When I zoom in, I get zoomed properly but the HUD also gets zoomed. What I need to do is sit closer to my monitor. I can, but I'm a bit uncomfortable doing it.

 

It being too high or too low: that can easily be remedied just like a real cockpit does! Seat height adjustment (switch up and down on the left, just under the canopy sill.)

 

It being too much left or right: if you have centered your view correctly (TrackIR, etc.) any deviation from the center is usually crosswind. Rudder or rudder trim will fix that.

[Windsortheater]

Right, so this is all assuming DCS 1.5, if you are using DCS 2.0 let me know I will have to download it and check if it's all the same, but it probably is.

 

It looks like HUD scale can be controlled by a single value in this file:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\HUD\Indicator\HUD_definitions.lua

Someone had actually made a sort of "mod" for it - http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=95797 , but that's not really required, you can make the changes on your own. Just be sure to backup any of the files you'll be modifying.

 

For the HUD scale, open the HUD_definitions.lua file at the above path (use a text editing software like Notepad++ or similar for much easier use).

 

Find this line

 

old_K = 73.5
new_K = 73.5

It will be at the top of the file. The value you want to change is "new_K". Bigger values produce a smaller HUD font size. Smaller values produce a bigger HUD font size. For example:

 

old_K = 73.5

new_K = 90

 

Will make the HUD font even smaller than default. And this:

 

 

old_K = 73.5

new_K = 49

 

Will make it much larger, which is what I personally use. You can try a value in-between or whatever you want really, just play around with it until you feel it comfortable.

 

 

Now to change the positioning of the elements on the HUD you need to modify different file. That whole info block at the bottom right of the HUD is actually two parts - waypoint information as well as the Radar Altimeter, and they are separate things in different files. The Radar Altimeter info doesn't really get cut-off so you can ignore it if you want to, but if you want the whole block to all line-up then you'll have to move it as well.

 

Open this file:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\HUD\Indicator\HUD_NOCLIP_SYM_page.lua

Find this block of code, it starts on line 70 and ends on line 104:

 

AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Steer_Point_Number_ID", 
                 {{"steer_point_number_id_txt", 0.1667}},
                 {[b][color=red]70[/color][/b], -76.5, 0.0}, 
                 nil,
                 HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
                 "LeftCenter")

AddHUDTextElement_Pos_Formats("SPDis_to_go_Num_Targ_Elev", 
                 {{"SPDis_to_go_Num_Targ_Elev_txt", 0.1667}}, 
                 {[b][color=red]70[/color][/b], -89, 0.0}, 
                 nil,
                 HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
                 "LeftCenter",
                 {"%s", "/", "%d", "DTS", "XXXX"})          
                 
AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Time_on_Target", 
                 {{"Time_on_Target_txt"}}, 
                 {[b][color=red]70[/color][/b], -101.5, 0.0}, 
                 nil,
                 HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
                 "LeftCenter")                                    

AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Current_Time", 
                 {{"hack_mode", 1}, {"Current_Time_txt"}}, 
                 {[b][color=red]70[/color][/b], -114, 0.0}, 
                 nil,
                 HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
                 "LeftCenter")

HackTime        = AddHUDTextElement_Pos("HackTime",
                 {{"hack_mode", 2}, {"Time_to_Target_txt"}}, 
                 {[b][color=red]70[/color][/b], -114, 0},
                 nil,
                 HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
                 "LeftCenter")        

What you are interested in here is the number I've bolded and colored red, which is "70" for all. This is the x-coordinate for the position of the element on the HUD. 0 in the middle of the HUD. So smaller numbers will move it to the left, and bigger numbers will move it to the right. If you fancy moving it to the left side of the HUD, then continue below zero into negative numbers.

The value that I used to show on the screenshot was "55" for each. So in my file it looks like this:

{55, -114, 0}

 

Also if you fancy moving it up or down, then modify the second value. Again, the center of the HUD is 0 and by default it sits below the center so it's negative. To move up use bigger numbers, to move down use smaller numbers.

 

 

Now after you move that, your Radar Altimeter reading will still stay where it was and this might bother you because then it won't align nicely with the waypoint info below it, so you may want to move it to the same horizontal position.

To do this, open this file:

\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C\Cockpit\Scripts\HUD\Indicator\HUD_COMMON_page.lua

Then find this code, it's on lines 1022 to 1027:

 

AddHUDTextElement_Pos("Radar_Altitude_Numerics", 
                 {{"radar_altitude_numerics_txt"}}, 
                 {[b][color=red]70[/color][/b], -64, 0.0}, 
                 nil,
                 HUD_DEFAULT_LEVEL,
                 "LeftCenter")

And again change the value of the bolded, red-coloured part, which is 70 by default (same as the waypoint elements were). Change that to be the same value that you used for the waypoint values to make it align exactly on the HUD. I had mine at 55 for the screenshot, but you can use whatever values you want. Smaller numbers will move it to the left, and bigger numbers will move it to the right.

 

Save all files and start the game and you should see your changes once the HUD is active and showing info (just use create fast mission and start at runway for a quick check).

 

 

this is great info. Do you know if there is a similar config file for A-10A ? I looked but could not locate. I'd like to modify overall text size as well as X and Y position of the heading tape, Navigation block and the airspeed and altitude boxes in the A-10A and maybe F-15

[lawsjr]

I can move and get the stuff on the right of the hud where I want it. How do I move the stuff on the left of the hud and also how do I lower the compass tape to the bottom of the hud.

[JLX]

Right, so this is all assuming DCS 1.5, if you are using DCS 2.0 let me know I will have to download it and check if it's all the same, but it probably is.

 

It looks like HUD scale can be controlled by... <snip>

 

Just wanted to add my thanks for great info!

 

The fact that you cannot see the entire contents of the HUD when your head is in a normal position seems like an obvious bug - no? As other's have also pointed out, in order to get the proper field of view required, you're head position has to be moved WAY forward from it's normal spot on the headrest.

 

The contents of the HUD are not visible with my head on the headrest in a "normal" position:

 

 

In order to fully see the contents of the HUD:

 

 

...I have to move my head forward and sit like granny with her chin on the steering wheel:

 

 

I use close-up snap views as a workaround when I want to read the HUD. However, it would be really nice if ED it got sorted for 2.5 as it's really important for VR!

 

Does anyone know if this is an acknowledged issue? Is ED even aware of this?

Edited July 28, 2016 by JLX
Additional Info

[Windsortheater]

Is there any recognition of this from the dev's?

 

I looked in to the mod highlighted earlier in this thread and it does not apply to A-10a and is not ideal for A-10C.

 

In short the 'eye box' as they call it in the HUD industry is too far forward.

 

Is this done to accommodate VR setups? Is it done to accommodate pixel density at 1080P? The F-15C seems to be OK, it is largely an A-10A and A-10C problem.

 

Hoping someone from the dev side or the mod community can help. It's a real problem at 4K.

 

Note - here's a great video that shows real life head position in an A-10. I think this shows really well the natural FOV in the cockpit. As the poster above says putting the head position in the right spot in DCS gives a pretty good representation of this. But the HUD is blown up way too big.

 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZON5gqGHsA[/ame]

Edited August 2, 2016 by Windsortheater

[Hba8103]

I think it is done because it is the correct FOV and I'm not sure you can change or scale things on the HUD without messing up the correlation. This game does a poor job of enabling 3 screen setups and proper FOV. Our monitors are 16:9 for the most part. You might not be able to see your MFCD's for example, as the screen height is too shallow to provide that view. Yiu should be able to tell by looking at the scale of the cockpit around you. For example, if you have a 24" monitor, does the entire width of the cockpit fit on the center screen? More than likely it shouldn't (depending on how far away you sit). If you look at the pic above from the video, you can tell the the MFCD's and the portions outlined in black/yellow decals stick out further than your shoulders. The components in game should be the same size as they are IRL.

 

It seems too close, but is probably the right distance. You're probably trying to see your MFCD's and ADI in the screen at the same time as you look through the HUD. You can see them IRL, but you can't focus on them (i.e. you can't see them) without tilting your head down. Same way when driving and focusing down the road you can't read your speed from the speedometer (unless you have HUD in car). You have to tilt your head down to see accurate speed. If your monitors are larger and you have Vertical coverage, then you will see the MFCD and ADI,but even then you won't read them without shifting focus.

 

I have 3 screens at 60 degrees apart. I send separate signal to each monitor. I used iRacing FOV calculator to determine FOV and then divided by 3. Ended up with 60 for FOV. This gave the proper view in game for A-10c. Fairly certain the setup is dimensionally correct. If I adjust to something too big or small, there are skewed objects on my side monitors. If my FOV is not correct, there is a bend in the horizon near the bezels of my monitors. When set correct, the horizon stays flat as I move my head left to right. If I shift my POV back slightly, I can see the wings of the plane almost ahead of me at ta strange angle.

 

I'm fairly certain this is the correct view, meaning that the HUD should be in the proper place on your screen without modifying the HUD file.

 

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Hba8103

[Hansolo]

Very nice thread with lots of good info. Just found it.

 

IMHO the issues is caused by what appears to be incorrect projection of the HUD image. HUD image appears to be projected in front of the aircraft and not on HUD glass itself.

This is why if you move you head sideways you loose some of the image behind the support pillars for the beam, why you have to move you head closer to the get support beam bigger and then being able to see the HUD image.

It may also be the reason why heat blur for other aircrafts affect you HUD which I presume it shouldn't.

 

Anyway its just my belief.

 

Cheers

Hans

[Razor18]

IMHO the issues is caused by what appears to be incorrect projection of the HUD image. HUD image appears to be projected in front of the aircraft and not on HUD glass itself.

This is why if you move you head sideways you loose some of the image behind the support pillars for the beam, why you have to move you head closer to the get support beam bigger and then being able to see the HUD image.

 

This is totally representing real life view. If the HUD incl. the pipper would be projected in the plane of the HUD, then you would throw your aim off with every bit of your head movement vertically and horizontally. That's why the HUD symbology is projected and focused into "infinity", that's why it moves out of sight with your head movement. It works like a red dot aiming device on a rifle. If you can't see (through) the dot, you can't aim with it.

[Hansolo]

This is totally representing real life view. If the HUD incl. the pipper would be projected in the plane of the HUD, then you would throw your aim off with every bit of your head movement vertically and horizontally. That's why the HUD symbology is projected and focused into "infinity", that's why it moves out of sight with your head movement. It works like a red dot aiming device on a rifle. If you can't see (through) the dot, you can't aim with it.

 

Oh I stand corrected Sir. Didn't know that. Thanks for the explanation. I assume this is the phenonemem you are talking about;

[ame]

[/ame]

 

Cheers

Hans

[majapahit]

Just wanted to add my thanks for great info!

 

The fact that you cannot see the entire contents of the HUD when your head is in a normal position seems like an obvious bug - no? As other's have also pointed out, in order to get the proper field of view required, you're head position has to be moved WAY forward from it's normal spot on the headrest.

 

The contents of the HUD are not visible with my head on the headrest in a "normal" position:

 

 

In order to fully see the contents of the HUD:

 

 

...I have to move my head forward and sit like granny with her chin on the steering wheel:

 

 

I use close-up snap views as a workaround when I want to read the HUD. However, it would be really nice if ED it got sorted for 2.5 as it's really important for VR!

 

Does anyone know if this is an acknowledged issue? Is ED even aware of this?

 

If you're using TrackIR,

I had same happen to me,

it turned out I could 'fix' this

 

TRACKIR_Z

I had to 'AXIS TUNE"

 

I set 'Curvature' to '46'

and my head was placed correctly to see full HUD

it's really a 'work around' of course

 

2 cts