R73, R27ET, HVA Hunt don't lock

[lockon2015]

Hi all,

 

I'm having some trouble getting the R-73, R 27 ET to lock on or fire. I can't get the R73 missile to fire at all. I uploaded two tracks from this mission. It takes about a literal minute or two in until we get to where I try to fire missiles at the blue dots.

 

I do understand that when I fire R73 in this mission, I am just on the outskirt of their range, so they may fail, but the R27-ET should be good to go, as 10 km from where I first see targets is well within its 30 km range.

The radar R-27 EP doesn't seem to lock on or fire much either, even holding buttons down more than a few seconds.

 

Its okay if it turns out that maybe I have to fly high and fast to launch these, or that the enemy has chaff, or some other reason. Perhaps in sneaking around the mountains and trying to surprise the enemy, the ground heat and/or weather interferes with these missiles ability to lock and hit. If this is how it is supposed to be from all simulated factors, I'm fine with that, I'll just keep working at it. I'm just making sure I'm not doing something obviously wrong with how I attempt to fire missiles.

 

 

When the blue dots appear in both tracks, I am actually punching the lock button and trying to fire missiles. I haven't gone suicidal; the track can't record my pressing of joystick buttons or holding them down.

 

As far as the rest of my flying, yes, I know, still trying lots of things out. Just focusing on launching and firing missiles for now.

R27ETnotLockV2.trk

R27ETnotLockradarEither.trk

Edited March 2, 2016 by lockon2015

[holimoli]

Your bandits are about 25km away on the first spot ("blue dot"). Thats ER range. And considering your launch parameters (alt & speed) that ER wont hit either most probably.

The vertical scan mode can only lock up targets at 10-15km range.. There are moments you will lock targets further away with it but usually the rule of thumb is: about 10km=switch to vertical, hold the lock button. The lock ranges depend on the target aspect/heat signature...If the target is hot (flying straight towards you) you will get a lock at around 10-15km

 

BTW there is no point in flying with EO when the enemy knows already that you are there. :).. You should read the manual again about systems :).

 

 

LockV2:

The first ET is locked on the enemy's AIM120B.

2nd ET is just dead off the rail...It was a valid shot actually

Edited March 2, 2016 by holimoli

[DarkFire]

Some general points first:

 

1. When both missions started it looked like you were at idle throttle. I'd very strongly recommend turning on "Synchronise cockpit controls with HOTAS controls at mission start" under Options --> Misc. That way before clicking the "fly" button you can push up your throttles and have stick-neutral conditions and be sure that the aircraft will start in a condition that mirrors what your actual HOTAS setup is doing. Hope that makes sense.

 

 

2. It looked like you were fighting the controls. Firstly I'd highly recommend between 15 - 20 axis curvature for both pitch and roll. This will give you the ability to carry out smooth, accurate control whilst avoiding drastic pitch or roll changes. You'll still have the ability to command strong pitch or roll movements but small inputs will be much smoother and more accurate. Secondly, the Flanker doesn't respond happily to sudden large control inputs. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

 

 

3. It looked like you were fighting with a mis-trimmed aircraft. At mission start give the aircraft a few moments to stabilise in pitch, roll and throttle, i.e. speed. Then you can trim for stable level flight. Of course trim will change with speed but this will give you a known, stable position to start adjusting from.

 

 

4. The mission is a bit unfair in that when the track started you were both lower and slower than the bandits. This is a very bad position to be in as you have drastically lower energy than they do. Their missiles will enjoy longer range whereas yours will have shorter range and the AWACS escort fighters will have more energy to use in avoiding your missiles or gaining tactical advantage over you.

 

Some of the problem comes down to poor mission design. For that scenario - HVAA kill - you'd either want to come in high and fast to give yourself the energy and missile range advantage, difficult enough against F-15s; or otherwise approach low and fast using terrain masking to hide you from the AWACS radar before performing a hard climb to engage within your missile WEZ. Being low (but not really down in the weeds) and slow and having been detected by the AWACS radar already is the worst possible position to be in. Not your fault at all there because it looks like the mission is set up that way.

 

Given the starting conditions I'd be tempted to hit the burners and climb to at least the target altitude and also reach at least corner speed for the Flanker (maybe 800 Km/h) before turning in to engage.

 

 

5. As Holimoli said, at ~25Km target range you should be using BVR radar mode (2 key) with your R-27ER missiles. Launching an R-27ER at just under Rmax at a slow, non-evading target like an AWACS may just work. Launching at that distance against an F-15 is unlikely to result in a kill. The escort fighters were able to launch much earlier because they had a significant altitude & speed advantage. Launching when a target reaches the second range caret (maximum launch range against a manoeuvring target) is much safer and results in higher Pk when attacking fighters.

 

One of your R-27ET missiles actually targeted and hit an incoming AIM-120. That's pretty impressive!

 

Vertical scan mode will start to see targets at between 10 - 15 Km, depending on their RCS, and is best used at under 10 Km in turning fights.

 

Anyway, good luck with getting to grips with the Flanker. It takes quite a while to get used to flying and fighting in it, and until you are used to it the thing can feel like a giant pain in the backside just to fly around. Persevere though, it's definitely worth it when everything does come together :thumbup:

Edited March 2, 2016 by DarkFire

[lockon2015]

Ah, okay, I see it. Yes, I just started this mission a few days ago, a bit of read this part of the manual, try that, read something else, try that also. Still got a ways to go before its as automatic as driving a car. The important thing is that I got some new ideas from everyone to try. Its really fun so far! Thanks for giving me those tips; I will try them out immediately.

 

One quick question, in the EOS, he does know I'm there, but if I fly around the mountains won't I have stealth then? I'm in the vicinity, but will he know exactly which mountain I am behind?

Edited March 3, 2016 by lockon2015

[holimoli]

One quick question, in the EOS, he does know I'm there, but if I fly around the mountains won't I have stealth then? I'm in the vicinity, but will he know exactly which mountain I am behind?

 

EOS does not give away your position - It's infared. No radar waves are emitted -> He will not see you on his RWR.

You can hide behind mountains... Radar waves are not going through it. So..no he will not know where you are...he has to visually spot you or guesstimate

 

..hope i got your question right :P

[lockon2015]

yes, that's the right question. I understand.