Unable to hit a bridge using CCRP

[Steggles]

Thanks everyone. Mucho success with GBU12's. I wasted a few taking out trucks to practice and they are pinpoint...now that I've provided them some laser to guide on. A couple of questions if I may... The initial lase (is that even a word?) is to establish range and accurately set the SPI...does Latch On impact this step or the post drop step? Does the Auto Lase option trigger the laser for guidance at the point of release for the specified number of seconds or the predicted time of impact minus the number of seconds specified? Either way surely an arbitrarily high number would seem sensible rather than trying to calculate the approx bomb fall time??

 

 

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Latch doesn't make a difference. Its only if you don't want to hold down the lase button to leave the laser on.

 

Auto Lase is XX seconds BEFORE weapon impact.

 

Edit: Oops, didn't see the 3rd page... Duh.

[marluk]

I used to do that too, but don't do it any longer (except for the CCRP part). If JTAC or other flight members want to do buddy lasing, I would either have to have two separate profiles at hand, or update the profile prior to my attack run. When the TGP is set to "Latch On", all it takes to lase myself is the flick of one button, and unlike other things, I don't usually forget to do that. ;)

 

In essence, a profile without auto lasing offers more flexibility and has almost no downsides IMO. :smartass:

 

Obviously, though, this is mostly relevant in MP. If I was flying SP exclusively, I'd probably do it exactly as you described because activating the laser is just one thing less to worry about then. :)

 

I agree with your statements.

 

Until recently I have not flown MP so there was no opportunity to do buddy lasing but I hope that will change soon. :)

[Lucky]

First of all, Lucky, I hate you because you have the same nick as me so I couldn't take it at the time I was creating forum account. ;)

 

Before dropping GBU-12, I always set up profile options AUTO LASE - ON and LS TIME - 10 seconds and CCRP mode. Works good for me.

Here is tutorial by Wags:

 

 

Tip: If you forget to turn laser on prior to dropping bomb, error messages will appear on MFDs. Don't panic! Just turn on laser switch and press Ins key on keyboard. This will turn laser on manually.

 

Good luck!

 

Sorry about the nick thing :music_whistling:

With a last name like mine (Luciano) you can understand why I have that nick. If you're not familiar with the name, Charles "Lucky" Luciano, he was a famous gangster back in the day.

 

I rarely change profile settings. Like Yurgon says, set "Latch ON" in the TGP screen and press the lase button after you drop the bomb. A simple process.

[pengjn]

It shouldn't however make sure you turn the laser off when dropping the bomb. You want it to fly ballistic at first because if you guide it right after release it will run out of energy and fall short.

 

This surprises me. I'd have thought that guiding as early as possible would enable the bomb to have a higher prob of hitting it's target than later because the amount that it can maneuver reduces with height. If it only guides for a few seconds before impact then it might not have time to correct for initial trajectory and wind errors.

 

 

 

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[marluk]

Sorry about the nick thing :music_whistling:

With a last name like mine (Luciano) you can understand why I have that nick. If you're not familiar with the name, Charles "Lucky" Luciano, he was a famous gangster back in the day.

 

I rarely change profile settings. Like Yurgon says, set "Latch ON" in the TGP screen and press the lase button after you drop the bomb. A simple process.

 

My friends sometimes called me Luciano because of my nick name ;).

 

Btw, I'm living near Italy (Trieste) so I'm often visiting Italian north. I'm planing to pay a visit to Sicily once. My friend was there last summer traveling on motorbike. He said it is beautiful and people are really nice also.

 

About manual lase... yea I'll give it a try. Seems as good idea to avoid picking profile settings while flying.

 

Buon volo mio amico!

[Yurgon]

This surprises me. I'd have thought that guiding as early as possible would enable the bomb to have a higher prob of hitting it's target than later because the amount that it can maneuver reduces with height. If it only guides for a few seconds before impact then it might not have time to correct for initial trajectory and wind errors.

 

What you describe sounds plausible, but to the best of my knowledge it's wrong nonetheless. ;)

 

Roughly 10 seconds of active steering should be more than enough for the bomb to hit its target. If not, it was probably too far off in the first place.

 

The idea behind LGBs is to have them fly ballistic first and only get guided late in their flight time. The entire computed release point is built around that, so as Blackeye said, if the bomb picks up the laser too soon, it's possible it'll miss.

 

Then again, as Lucky said, some people lase all the way from release and have no problems. Still, roughly 10 seconds of lasing would be closer to reality for all I know, and it's a good habit in case the Zombie apocalypse hits and you find yourself in a requisitioned A-10C, trying to save your friends out of a danger close encounter. :D

[McBlemmen]

It's quite simple really , the bomb is designed to fall in an arc and the on board computer that calculates the ccrp delivery knows this , if you lase as soon as you drop and the bomb picks up the laser right away (wich wont happen unless you'e a good 15 to 20 degrees nose down on weapon release) the bomb will try to fly in a straight line towards the target because that's what the laser seeker is telling it to do , wich will cause it to lose energy and fall short.

[pengjn]

What you describe sounds plausible, but to the best of my knowledge it's wrong nonetheless. ;)

 

 

 

Roughly 10 seconds of active steering should be more than enough for the bomb to hit its target. If not, it was probably too far off in the first place.

 

 

 

The idea behind LGBs is to have them fly ballistic first and only get guided late in their flight time. The entire computed release point is built around that, so as Blackeye said, if the bomb picks up the laser too soon, it's possible it'll miss.

 

 

 

Then again, as Lucky said, some people lase all the way from release and have no problems. Still, roughly 10 seconds of lasing would be closer to reality for all I know, and it's a good habit in case the Zombie apocalypse hits and you find yourself in a requisitioned A-10C, trying to save your friends out of a danger close encounter. :D

 

 

Google agrees: http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/lgb.htm

 

I think I get the problem now - if the bomb sees the target immediately it will try to steer at it in a straight line but that would make it cut the corner of the ballistic trajectory and run out of energy. Interesting that they haven't yet made the guidance smart enough to figure out optimal trajectory to achieve max range using all available ballistic energy even when target is being lased. GPS guided munitions know their exact target at launch and don't suffer the same issue so...erm...confused again.

 

 

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[Yurgon]

GPS guided munitions know their exact target at launch and don't suffer the same issue so...erm...confused again.

 

GBU-54 will probably behave like you describe, but they're not available in DCS yet.

 

Anyway, I think the whole procedure is pretty simple and it's just a matter of training the pilots to follow it closely. Which is something that pilots are usually good at, anyway - following procedures. :smartass:

[McBlemmen]

Google agrees: http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/lgb.htm

 

I think I get the problem now - if the bomb sees the target immediately it will try to steer at it in a straight line but that would make it cut the corner of the ballistic trajectory and run out of energy. Interesting that they haven't yet made the guidance smart enough to figure out optimal trajectory to achieve max range using all available ballistic energy even when target is being lased. GPS guided munitions know their exact target at launch and don't suffer the same issue so...erm...confused again.

 

 

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The difference is that GPS guided bombs have guidance computers on board that can calculate optimal trajectories and guide at the same time , where as laser guided bombs are pretty ****ing stupid and just know how to keep the laser centered , nothing else.

[pengjn]

The difference is that GPS guided bombs have guidance computers on board that can calculate optimal trajectories and guide at the same time , where as laser guided bombs are pretty ****ing stupid and just know how to keep the laser centered , nothing else.

 

 

That's the conclusion I came to just now. Must be a reason why they don't fit smarter guidance computers. Are laser guided bombs a lot cheaper than GPS or just old tech? If u had the choice you'd always pick GPS guidance wouldn't u because it doesn't require constant guidance. Mmm- moving targets would be a problem though. Interesting.

 

 

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[Xavven]

That's the conclusion I came to just now. Must be a reason why they don't fit smarter guidance computers. Are laser guided bombs a lot cheaper than GPS or just old tech? If u had the choice you'd always pick GPS guidance wouldn't u because it doesn't require constant guidance. Mmm- moving targets would be a problem though. Interesting.

 

 

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The retired A-10 pilot we talked to on Teamspeak a few weeks ago told us that he wasn't impressed with laser guided bombs' ability to hit moving targets. He had been retired for a few years, though (I think 4?). I don't know if their accuracy has improved since then but probably not.

 

In the game, though, they're dead accurate. You can even change targets in the last few seconds if they're close enough together and get perfect hits.

 

JDAMs, at least in DCS, have a higher CEP (meaning they're less precise). I don't even use them against stationary tanks -- only stationary soft targets and buildings.