Brakes performance

[some1]

I did a little testing this evening and measured the distance needed to stop the aircraft from 80 knots (150 km/h).

 

M2000 600 m

L-39 360 m

MiG-15 350 m

MiG-21 330 m

A-10 330 m

Su-27 320 m (with pulse braking, otherwise tyres explode)

F-15 280 m

F-86 210 m

 

Looks like the brakes in the Mirage are of this type:

 

Doesn't matter if I use pedals or keyboard shortcut.

Edited March 12, 2016 by some1

[mattebubben]

Are those distances from Wheel breaks only or do they include break chute?.

[some1]

Wheel Brakes only, no airbrakes and no chutes. Accuracy I think +- 10 meters.

[spiddx]

This must be without chute, because that one is very effective.

I also noticed the very weak wheel brakes in the last iteration. You have to be extremly careful not to taxi a bit too fast or you can slam the brakes all you want and will land in the dirt anyways.

 

Don't know if this behaviour is all correct as the brake chute is only meant for emergency situations irl afaik...

[IvanK]

Not sure comparing other aircraft's brake performance is really a valid comparison. Must be some real Mir 2K braking charts out there.

 

AERODYNAMIC BRAKING

A study was done in the RAAF with the Mirage IIIO regarding aerodynamic braking and drag chute use. The conclusion was that yes without the chute aerodynamic braking was effective however with the chute deployed the benefits of aerodynamic braking were negligible.

[FSKRipper]

Wheel Brakes only, no airbrakes and no chutes. Accuracy I think +- 10 meters.

 

Agreed, most times I have the feeling trying to stop a Train than a lightweight fighter :lol:

 

Not sure comparing other aircraft's brake performance is really a valid comparison. Must be some real Mir 2K braking charts out there.

 

AERODYNAMIC BRAKING

A study was done in the RAAF with the Mirage IIIO regarding aerodynamic braking and drag chute use. The conclusion was that yes without the chute aerodynamic braking was effective however with the chute deployed the benefits of aerodynamic braking were negligible.

 

Correct so far but we are talking about speeds where your nosewheel is on the ground. You can even try it at 50 kts, every (DCS) plane is coming to stop in a matter of seconds while you make a sightseeing tour around the base with the 2K.

Edited March 12, 2016 by FSKRipper

[Harke]

"Doesn't matter if I use pedals or keyboard shortcut."

I don't think it's related

[atonium83]

Fix for this in internal development build :)

 

Did you planned to make taxi more realistic ? 'cause right now we're far from real aircraft...

[FSKRipper]

Did you planned to make taxi more realistic ? 'cause right now we're far from real aircraft...

 

Maybe you should add some details, descriptions and/or videos of what do you think should be revised. To expect a developer changing something by reading your mind isn't very helpful :music_whistling:

[atonium83]

Maybe you should add some details, descriptions and/or videos of what do you think should be revised. To expect a developer changing something by reading your mind isn't very helpful :music_whistling:

 

Yep but it's not the first time that I talk about that: The mirage 2000 (as many fighter jets), doesn't need to push the throttle to start taxiing. After start up, with throttle at 0% the plane have to start taxiing by himself. I talk about this problem here 'cause I've got the impression that's the brakes are always activated.

Edited March 14, 2016 by atonium83

[Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson]

atonium83 : True for the idle thrust. Without parking brakes, the mirage must move by itself, even with the throttle at ground idle. The nosewheel steering is well modeled in my opinion.

[AussieGhost789]

Fix for this in internal development build :)

 

Did this make it through to the latest update on the live version?

 

Edit: Did anything new actually go into the last update on the live version? Or is it just the things that were added to the beta version being moved over to the live version?

 

Edit 2: Answered by Zeus on another thread. Same as beta :(

Edited March 14, 2016 by AussieGhost789

[mattebubben]

yea did not realise how bad the breaking problem was before i tried to land at Gelendzhik

without a Brake chute xD.

 

I found it almost impossible to stop in time without the breaking chute without going onto the grass.

 

I found this out the hard way in Mp when i tried to land there...

 

Was landing without break chute

(as i had used in during my first landing and the Re-arm did not replenish it)

 

I did 3 attempts with every time i touched down at between 180-200 and when i reached within about 60-80 m of the runway end i will still doing around 100 knots (so since i realised i could not stop went full afterburner and did a go around)

 

I did that 3 times untill on the 4th time i set it down on the runway and about halfway up the runway i realised i would not stop this time either so i steered into the grass (edge of grass).

 

Still i only stopped about 30-40 meters away from the drop.

 

And its not like Gelendzhik is a super short runway =P

 

Its 5900Ft long (1800 meters)

 

So it feels like a small fighter jet should have no problem stopping withough a breaking chute.

 

So im looking foward to the fix in the next update.

 

And the first thing i will do when it comes out is best Gelendzhik.

Edited March 15, 2016 by mattebubben

[spiddx]

180-200 seems too high though. Were you not landing at ~14° AoA or were you super heavy?

[mattebubben]

180-200 seems too high though. Were you not landing at ~14° AoA or were you super heavy?

 

 

speed range was probably closer to 160-180 for touchdown.

 

With the First approach being a bit fast with touchdown at around 180 but the two other failed attempts the touch down was at around 160-170

 

And im not a pro when it comes to landings =P and i was eager to get down to re-arm after a fun dogfight (2 kills)

 

I was down to about 35% fuel (for first attempt) and 2x magics + empty centerline tank.

 

But also dont think it would have mattered if i touched down at 150 knots since the speed was so high (80-100) when i reached the point of no return

(The last moment where i have a chance to take off again by going full AB)

 

ive done tests later in SP with the same loadout / fuel quantity and if i dont abort the landing and only use wheel brakes i reached the end of the runway still traveling at 45-70 knots.

 

Even tried using the parking break without any difference.

 

On longer Runways (krymsk etc) i would get to a stop ok (maby 60-100 meters to go) but on Gelendzhik or Novorossiysk or on other shorter runways i would always go off the end of the runway.

 

The lowest speed landing i did on Gelendzhik i think was 140-145 knots and touch down was on the Runway Threshold (with the wheels touching the first few meters of runway) and with no bounces or anything i still went of the end of the runway at almost 50 knots (even with some jinking back and forth to loose even more speed)

Edited March 15, 2016 by mattebubben

[spiddx]

Well thanks for the challenge! ;)

 

I managed to do it a couple of times with 35% and 4 missiles, but just barely. You really have to be on the spot with the touchdown (50m down the runway and you've lost) and be very effective with the aerobraking (which isn't easy either with the nose up tendency atm). Definitely not something you want to concern yourself with after a stressful sortie. :)

 

The best way of action is probably to just wait for the patch and divert to Krymsk in the meantime. ^^

Edited March 15, 2016 by spiddx

[Sarge55]

If you guys are good at landing now and keeping her straight and managing to stop her in time, you will have no problem when the new update comes out...braking power will be where it should be and the tendency for it to lose directional control won't be there anymore unless you turn off anti-skid :)

 

Nice. Looking forward to the update, I'm not up to spiddex or mattebubben's skill level.