No NVG's

[petertheduke21]

No NVG's Have been implemented for the M2000 and im sick of using mods please add NVG's to your module

[mattebubben]

In reality the M2000s cockpit was not NVG compatible .

 

And to my understanding Pilots were not Issued with NVGs

Thus they have not implimented NVGs with the M2000 module.

 

And also this should not be in the Bug Reports section as its not a bug.

 

If you want NVGs added you should make the suggestion in the general Section of the M2000 forum.

 

or in a Suggestions Thread.

[AG-51_Razor]

Does the Mirage have an NVG compatible cockpit??

[Vedexent]

Does the Mirage have an NVG compatible cockpit??

 

I don't think that an NVG comparable cockpit came along until the Mirage 2000D variant - so, so far as I know, no.

 

This is not a bug.

[Azrayen]

Does the Mirage have an NVG compatible cockpit??

 

Not the one modelized by Razbam.

 

I don't think that an NVG comparable cockpit came along until the Mirage 2000D variant - so, so far as I know, no.

Then there has been retrofits. 2000Ns are NVG-compatibles for a few years. And it was recently discussed that even some 2000Cs have now begun to use NVGs (a few monthes back).

 

This is not a bug.

Agreed.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Azrayen

[KEULE]

NightVisisionCompatible Cockpit?

 

What does it mean to made a cockpit compatible for night vision? Night vision simply intensifies the light which is still there. So you may simply reduce cockpit lights and nothing glares you. There is still no modification to the cockpit neccessary. On the other hand...if its thats easy why not using it? So what am I missing?

Edited March 24, 2016 by KEULE

[Enduro14]

What does it mean to made a cockpit compatible for night vision? Night vision simply intensifies the light which is still there. So you may simply reduce cockpit lights and nothing glares you. There is still no modification to the cockpit neccessary. On the other hand...if its thats easy why not using it? So what am I missing?

 

This is true but some seem to think only way you are allowed to fly aircraft with nvg's is to have a compatible certified cockpit. This is simply not true but it's pissing in the wind around here.

[Eddie]

What does it mean to made a cockpit compatible for night vision? Night vision simply intensifies the light which is still there. So you may simply reduce cockpit lights and nothing glares you. There is still no modification to the cockpit neccessary. On the other hand...if its thats easy why not using it? So what am I missing?

 

Even with the cockpit lighting at its lowest level you'd still bloom out the NVG and be unable to see much of anything. And with the cockpit lighting off altogether you wouldn't be able to read your instruments to fly the aircraft.

 

NVG compatible cockpits use green lighting which is filtered out by NVGs such that it doesn't cause this.

 

And this is not to mention that the Mirage 2000C is primarily a fighter aircraft, and NVGs and Air to Air combat don't mix very well. So even if you had NVGs you'd be removing them before you got into a fight anyway.

[Eddie]

This is true but some seem to think only way you are allowed to fly aircraft with nvg's is to have a compatible certified cockpit. This is simply not true but it's pissing in the wind around here.

 

Actually in most air forces, it is very much true. Pilots can't just do whatever they fancy you know, everything has to be tested, certified, and released to service before the regular pilots get to use it.

[Vedexent]

Googling a bit, it looks like NVG modification involves:

 

" ... a combination of ANVIS compatible filters, bezels, internal modifications, post-lighting, bulb replacements and floodlighting to modify all instrumentation in both the cockpit and cabin."

 

So, no, it's not a major overhaul - but it's a retrofit, and it's an upgrade project.

 

If your airforce has a couple of hundred combat aircraft, it can add up. Again, not a horrible expense - but it might not be a needed one; only multi-role, close air support aircraft, and helos are likely to have any use for NVGs.

 

I believe the M2000 was originally conceived primarily as an interceptor, with some strike capabilities - but even with strike aircraft, only your targeting systems need to see the target; the pilot being able to see them with the Mk1 eyeball isn't as important.

 

So a combination of "would we use it?", and "is it worth the expense?" probably keeps NVG compatibility from being the default configuration.

[QuiGon]

NVG compatibility was pretty huge in our national news media in January, because after the terrorist attacks on Paris we send some of our Tornados to fight ISIS as part of Operation Inherent Resolve and it became public, that they can't do night missions, because their cockpit wasn't NVG compatible. I'm still baffled, that this problem hasn't occured before, but in the end they had to change all the white and red LEDs with green ones to keep the pilots from beeing blinded. Now in the Mirage cockpit I can see a lot of red lights, so it seems reasonable, that it isn't NVG compatible.

[KEULE]

NVG compatibility was pretty huge in our national news media in January, because after the terrorist attacks on Paris we send some of our Tornados to fight ISIS as part of Operation Inherent Resolve and it became public, that they can't do night missions, because their cockpit wasn't NVG compatible. I'm still baffled, that this problem hasn't occured before, but in the end they had to change all the white and red LEDs with green ones to keep the pilots from beeing blinded. Now in the Mirage cockpit I can see a lot of red lights, so it seems reasonable, that it isn't NVG compatible.

 

I'm not sure if that is actually the only real problem. If I remember correct, the problem is caused because the instruments can't dimmed down to a level to use NVG's even though the instruments are supposed to be able to. So this is more of a production issue. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

However I was wondering why not to turn off all lights in cockpit. Because the residual light of the moon is sufficient enought for NVG. Shouldn't this wok in a jet too?

Edited March 24, 2016 by KEULE

[Sid6dot7]

I'm still baffled, that this problem hasn't occured before [...]

 

It didn't because it was a result of soft- and hardware updates, which now prevent the proper dimming levels for the cockpit lightning until the issues are resolved.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Sid6dot7

[Eddie]

However I was wondering why not to turn off all lights in cockpit. Because the residual light of the moon is sufficient enought for NVG. Shouldn't this wok in a jet too?

 

It'd work fine for seeing outside through the NVGs, but how would you see your cockpit instruments?

 

Don't forget that us being able to see into the cockpit in DCS is not realistic at all. In reality everything would be severely out of focus. IRL you glance below the goggles to read anything in the cockpit.

[KEULE]

It'd work fine for seeing outside through the NVGs, but how would you see your cockpit instruments?

 

Don't forget that us being able to see into the cockpit in DCS is not realistic at all. In reality everything would be severely out of focus. IRL you glance below the goggles to read anything in the cockpit.

 

I see. Thats a point.

[Enduro14]

Actually in most air forces, it is very much true. Pilots can't just do whatever they fancy you know, everything has to be tested, certified, and released to service before the regular pilots get to use it.

 

Actually it depends, not going to drag this on, ive been in multiple airframes in the past when nvgs where sort of the "new" thing and pits where not to what todays standards are. Im fully aware of why things are the way they are today. You have made good points but the reality is different for all services and even within those services. AKA the regular part versus the SOF Part sort of things... but thats a whole new cat to skin

Back to the sim, if dcs world would get the ambient like factors correct in reference to real world well it would be very easy to fly at night without nvg's just like it is in real life.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Enduro14

[Azrayen]

Guys,

 

Using Google, it's easy to find this picture of a M-2000N K3 cockpit:

 

This bomber version of the aircraft is NVG-able.

 

Look for the differences with the one we have:

- AP buttons

- Terrain following controls (just under the AP buttons)

- PCA

- trailing devices indicator

- RWR

- Fire warning lights

- Fuel tanks empty lights

- PPA

- Alarm panel

 

All those are "greenish" because specifig NVG filters have been incorporated. And that's just what's instantly visible on this pic (which doesn't show the whole cockpit, and is from a cold & dark aircraft).

 

Don't forget that us being able to see into the cockpit in DCS is not realistic at all. In reality everything would be severely out of focus. IRL you glance below the goggles to read anything in the cockpit.

+1000 :)

 

++

Az'

[gospadin]

Doesn't make sense to me that color would matter for NVG-compatible instruments. It should just be reduced brightness. That's how all my NVG-compatible optics work today.

 

Now, if they happened to be using LEDs that were especially inconsistent in the IR spectrum then it might matter, but the color of your instrument shouldn't matter at all.

 

Focal length through goggles would be a different problem, though it doesn't seem to me like an especially hard problem to solve either.

[Eddie]

Doesn't make sense to me that color would matter for NVG-compatible instruments. It should just be reduced brightness. That's how all my NVG-compatible optics work today.

 

Unless you work in avionics design or maintenance, the fact that is doesn't make sense to you is inconsequential.

 

Aircrew NVGs are different to infantry NVGs, for starters they're binocular and more advanced to include filtering out specific wavelengths of light which cheaper commercially available stuff doesn't do so well at they also cost 5 to 10 times as much and the newest use technology that is protected.

 

Aircraft cockpits are not weapon optics. Weapon optics are designed such that they are visible through NVGs on the NVG setting(s), aircraft cockpit lighting must provide an environment where the cockpit is visible to the naked eye and not through NVGs, while also permitting the use of NVGs at the same time.

 

Try using your NVGs to look through your living room window at night with the lights on in the room, you'll quickly see the issue, no matter how dim you have those lights.

 

And if you think the focus "problem" is easy to solve, then I suggest you patent your solution quickly and then approach BAE Systems/Boeing/Lockheed Martin et al, as I'm sure they'd pay handsomely for your designs. ;)

 

EDIT:

 

The key point is that NVIS compatible cockpit lighting is entirely invisible through NVGs (something DCS doesn't have right), not merely very dim light.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Eddie

[Sid6dot7]

[...] that color would matter for NVG-compatible instruments. It should just be reduced brightness. [...]

 

You can find a very concise description in the introduction/background part of this document: Methods of implementing NVIS compatible cockpit lighting.

[Eddie]

Incidentally the HUD should be in the case of some aircraft invisible/greatly dimmed through NVGs where there is no NVIS compatible functionality built in as NVGs will filter out the green light. This is why some aircraft make use of colour/near-IR filters as a night setting.

[Enduro14]

True but do realize even us on the ground do use the aviation nvgs also.

[AlphaOneSix]

I started out in aviation using F4210's (AN/AVS-6) goggles, but have since switched to F4949's (AN/AVS-9). Now we are switching from green phosphor to white phosphor goggles (they are black and white instead of green). Very weird (in a good way), but I have yet to do a lot of testing with them. I have a little over 1,000 hours of flying with goggles (maybe 1,100-1,150).

 

I think people should pay more attention to what Eddie is saying.

 

And yes, most serious ground pounders these days are wearing AN/PVS-15 (or better) goggles that are definitely on par with (or better than) aviation-grade goggles.

[gospadin]

Thx everyone for the links, fascinating stuff

[Enduro14]

Current "mainstream" shiny for us is the pvs-31, many hours in the avs-6 my self but they are very fragile and break very easily.