Will the TM Warthog go out of production?

[guitarxe]

I find myself in a bit of a predicament, I want the TM Warthog but cannot currently afford one, and doesn't seem like I would until I've got more disposable income to throw around (few more years, plus my wife should be finishing college soon so that will help), but in any case I'm worried that it goes out of production and there will be no other product of the same quality to replace it, and it will go into legend and nothing as good will be available like it, kind of like the Logitech G27 Wheel and what was that Force Feedback Joystick from Microsoft, I forget the name now...

 

Am I being silly and paranoid, or should I cough up the dough now while it's readily available and supported?

[Dudikoff]

Can't help you with the inside information on TM plans, but I had a similar predicament years ago with the TM Cougar, being the only high end metal stick available (even though the gimbals were crappy) and it seemed the flight sims were done for. I bought it just for keeps and planned to upgrade it later, but then other joysticks popped up that I got used or on sale (e.g. Saitek X65 and Logitech G940) so I never got around to upgrading it because most of the upgrades are not available anymore and those that are cost as much as a new Warthog or more.

 

On the other hand, at least the TM Warthog is much better in its base form so you won't face the same problem, except if your throttle unit dies or something (not sure if that still happens with the later units).

[Vincent90]

VKB is not only staying in the business but is even expanding. And since Saitek is on life support, the chances are good that TM remains in the flight control business.

 

You should have no problem obtsining a high quality consuner stick in years to come :)

[Duckling]

My guess, thrustmaster will be there. Availibility of tmwh set a few years up ahead will never be guaranteed If a statement of such is not issued by TM. If you aim for the tmwh, if not availible some will be on the second hand market but cost will be comparable with current judging from the cougar history. Despite the compititors, its the best cost/performance device on the market (my opinion). No need to feberish if you not having the funds for it anyway

Edited March 24, 2016 by Duckling

[FeistyLemur]

If VKB successfully brings more sticks to market, you might even find there are used warthogs to buy should you still want a warthog specifically. Then again they sell a warthog adapter so that might not be the case if people hold on to them to be able to use the grip.

 

Who knows what will happen as manufacturing becomes easier for the average person to achieve and 3d printing / metal printing becomes more common. It's at the point where you can buy a really decent CNC mill for under 10k dollars I'm looking forward to the day I can buy my own cnc mill and just make my own stuff.

[Socket7]

TM Warthog isn't going anywhere. It's basically the gold standard.

 

There is no other joystick on the market that combines the quality and feature set at the price point it does.

 

CH products and Saitek have had their market for rudder pedals devastated by vastly superior products at a similar price point with the MFG crosswinds and that other rudder pedal system I don't remember because I don't own it. If saitek/CH pedals go away, they won't be missed by anyone.

 

As for joysticks, The X52/pro is ripe to be taken down by some better offering at the same price point, but that's going to be a high barrier to entry because the X52 really crams a lot of stuff in for what they charge. Feeling built down to a price is the main problem with the x52, so how do you make something also built down to a price, that can't feel like it is built down to a price.

 

The warthog could really use a version 2.0 to correct some of the longstanding minor issues, like the PWM for the LEDs causing the throttle friction slider to judder and some reliability tweaks, but I don't think they feel the need to spend a bunch of money on new tooling to make a 2.0, and it would probably require a price hike which would put off consumers.

 

And of course, people who are willing to spend $160 on a gimbal alone, will continue to have options available to them at higher price points, with the expected jump in materials quality and engineering that price point can afford.

[Headwarp]

Best pc flightstick I've ever owned, although I do miss the x52pro's short throttle throw for games like elite: dangerous and descent, I don't see this stick being discontinued anytime soon.

 

Mine had/has stiction issues out of the box unfortunately, but hopefully I can fix that with some grease and sandpaper. It's only noticeable when making very fine movements and trying to be extremely gentle with the stick. Otherwise it's got the perfect amount of tension, and I use the crap out of the afterburner detent when flying anything with afterburners.

[lokodehortaleza]

I have mixed feelings about my Warthog, same as Cyph3r above. The grip is awesome, the throttle is great except for the slew control, but the joystick gimbal...

 

I really regret not having informed me properly about the gimbal mechanism before buying it, I only did that after I noticed the problems. I haven't tried greasing it yet, maybe it'll help, but for the price tag I didn't expect a greased plastic ball gimbal.

 

I'm getting a VKB as soon as possible, and use it with the Warthog grip and throttle. Maybe someone will want to buy a warthog gimbal for spare parts.

[rrohde]

I'm getting a VKB as soon as possible, and use it with the Warthog grip and throttle. Maybe someone will want to buy a warthog gimbal for spare parts.

 

I have a VKB Black Mamba MkIII on order, and it should get here any day now. I cannot wait to bask in its all-steel-gimbal glory. :thumbup:

 

Needless to say, I cannot wait for VKB's own throttle quadrant; here's a first drawing of the WWII-inspired VKB throttle:

 

 

Eventually, there'll also be a modern split-throttle and modern grip (replacing the Mamba's grip) by VKB as well (rumor has it, it's based on the Su-35 controls)... So, the future for quality controllers is bright. :)

[Gladman]

Does anybody know if VKB plans on a Hornet stick/throttle?

[Sokol1_br]

Does anybody know if VKB plans on a Hornet stick/throttle?

 

High probable no, as are rumors that Tm maybe will make this model and VKB say don't plan make sticks that other brands already do.

 

Most probable - in a year or more - is a stick/throttle based on modern Russian fighter, something that don't exist on the market.

[lazduc]

I am also disappointed in the Warthog. I purchased it after listening to all the raves when it first came out. Then the failures started. Still a large choir of folks that were stuck 550.00 still insisted that the TM Wart was the best thing since sliced bread.

 

I guess its hard to swallow that you just blew a lot of money on a over-hyped-over priced-poorly designed, software challenged, quality control joke.

 

Mine still sits in the closet. I installed the newest firmware. I hooked it up and fired up A-10C. It was suppose to be plug and play....I would say more than half the controls did not operate....I unplugged it and put it in the closet....I guess it been about 2-3 years. I thought after all the hype and money spent I was not about to spend time configuring this item.

 

I have purchased numerous other Hotas controls and got pretty much what I had thought and did not feel like I got ripped off....the warthog by tm....I still wince when I think about it.

[Greekbull]

Love my Warthog! I agree with Jar, I think it's the best most realistic set you can get. I would guess that TM will go to the Hornet next as once it's released(if ever lol:D) that it only makes sense for the F-18 to be the next TM model...

[Headwarp]

I am also disappointed in the Warthog. I purchased it after listening to all the raves when it first came out. Then the failures started. Still a large choir of folks that were stuck 550.00 still insisted that the TM Wart was the best thing since sliced bread.

 

I guess its hard to swallow that you just blew a lot of money on a over-hyped-over priced-poorly designed, software challenged, quality control joke.

 

Mine still sits in the closet. I installed the newest firmware. I hooked it up and fired up A-10C. It was suppose to be plug and play....I would say more than half the controls did not operate....I unplugged it and put it in the closet....I guess it been about 2-3 years. I thought after all the hype and money spent I was not about to spend time configuring this item.

 

I have purchased numerous other Hotas controls and got pretty much what I had thought and did not feel like I got ripped off....the warthog by tm....I still wince when I think about it.

 

"All the hype" is that this is the best hotas currently available to the mass consumer market. The ability to replace most of the pieces of the stick and TM selling those parts is a major plus.

 

I'm sorry you plugged your stick in once and gave up on it. For the pricetag.. I would personally have been making sure mine worked.

 

As far as it working with the a-10c module it should work plug and play, I went the extra mile of deleting my control configs to reset the controls to default. As long as all the buttons are functioning in windows game controller properties correctly, all it should take is checking "sync hotas with cockpit" or whatever it is and all the switches on the throttle and the throttles themselves should be exactly as they are on the TM unit. Without checking it, you actually have to flip each switch to the position they're in in the sim before it will recognize inputs from the hotas.

 

I'm not saying the TM Warthog is perfect.. but, it's easier to take apart than plastic sticks.. so you can resodder wires when need be, there aren't any potentiometers to worry about cleaning.. and as long as your wires aren't pinched/broken and your circuit boards are functioning, the only maintenance the stick should require is regreasing the sadly plastic gimbal, that should've been smoothed and sanded before released to the market imo. It's awesome for use with the a-10c and jets.

 

There is not a piece of technology on the planet that doesn't require maintenance or come with a chance of failure.. at least not to my knowledge, and not available to the consumer market.

 

I'm not even saying the Hog is the best stick for every occasion. I use a cheap Logitech Extreme 3d pro for heli's/prop planes because there is way less center tension, but still a decent enough amount for me to enjoy it. I only bought it to hold me over until my Crosswinds arrive, but I think even when they do, and likely even after I do what I can to fix the Hog's "stiction" issues, I'll still use the Logitech for prop planes/heli's because it takes less muscle. But for jet's and the a-10C? Warthog stick every time. I use all of the hat switches for multiple functions..and I can't lie.. I like the feel of the cold metal. I also heavily use the afterburner detent in the throttle when flying fighter jets. I'll swap it out for planes that don't utilize burners, but, when the curves are adjusted right, I miss it when I forget to flip it back around for my su-27/f-15

Edited April 1, 2016 by Headwarp

[rocketsmith]

I've been wondering about that finish on the plastic gimbal. I was thinking of polishing it smooth to see if it improves operation at all. However, it's always a good idea to stop and consider whether TM (or any other manufacturer) had a reason (other than financial) for the product design they finally went with. While it's true that bearing surfaces are as smooth as we can make them, this is not always the case where reducing friction is the goal, especially in nature. Bird feathers, the fine hairs on insect bodies and the denticles of shark-skin have evolved to retain a layer of air or water next to the body of the animal so that movement through the medium is as "frictionless" as possible. In aerodynamics this surface efficiency is known as the Reynolds number. I wonder if TM's engineers didn't go with the same idea of using a "rough" surface to retain grease on the gimbal surface? What does the inner surface of the gimbal socket look like? Does it have a matching texture or is it smooth? At any rate, mine has no "stiction" issues so I'll leave that part of it alone for now. If anyone has polished the gimbal parts, please chime in with the results.

[Headwarp]

I've been wondering about that finish on the plastic gimbal. I was thinking of polishing it smooth to see if it improves operation at all. However, it's always a good idea to stop and consider whether TM (or any other manufacturer) had a reason (other than financial) for the product design they finally went with. While it's true that bearing surfaces are as smooth as we can make them, this is not always the case where reducing friction is the goal, especially in nature. Bird feathers, the fine hairs on insect bodies and the denticles of shark-skin have evolved to retain a layer of air or water next to the body of the animal so that movement through the medium is as "frictionless" as possible. In aerodynamics this surface efficiency is known as the Reynolds number. I wonder if TM's engineers didn't go with the same idea of using a "rough" surface to retain grease on the gimbal surface? What does the inner surface of the gimbal socket look like? Does it have a matching texture or is it smooth? At any rate, mine has no "stiction" issues so I'll leave that part of it alone for now. If anyone has polished the gimbal parts, please chime in with the results.

 

I haven't taken mine apart yet, but after watching the youtube video of people who've taken theirs apart and hit it with sandpaper, pretty much everything about the gimbal is smooth except for minor things...there's a thin edge sticking up out of the gimbal that just looks like someone didn't take the time to sand it out. It really is the one major flaw.. and the stiction on my stick is only noticable when barely applying pressure to the stick. It feels smooth until you try to make slow small motions and then it will get "stuck" until I release pressure and let it move on it's own. Moving in quick motions, it works as it should.. but trying to make fine adjustments is where I know I'm going to have to take the sucker apart and at the very least put some adequate grease on it.

[Sporg]

I haven't taken mine apart yet, but after watching the youtube video of people who've taken theirs apart and hit it with sandpaper, pretty much everything about the gimbal is smooth except for minor things...there's a thin edge sticking up out of the gimbal that just looks like someone didn't take the time to sand it out. It really is the one major flaw.. and the stiction on my stick is only noticable when barely applying pressure to the stick. It feels smooth until you try to make slow small motions and then it will get "stuck" until I release pressure and let it move on it's own. Moving in quick motions, it works as it should.. but trying to make fine adjustments is where I know I'm going to have to take the sucker apart and at the very least put some adequate grease on it.

I had the exact same problem.

 

In my case it was not only the thin edges though, the plugs that holds the inner gimbal had too tight a fit and was causing sticktion as well.

I had to sand these very carefully, so that they got a looser fit.

 

Same with the groove between the inner and the outer part of the gimbal.

 

Sad and a little bit annoying that you have to resort to such measures to get your stick to function properly.

[Socket7]

I am also disappointed in the Warthog. I purchased it after listening to all the raves when it first came out. Then the failures started. Still a large choir of folks that were stuck 550.00 still insisted that the TM Wart was the best thing since sliced bread.

 

I guess its hard to swallow that you just blew a lot of money on a over-hyped-over priced-poorly designed, software challenged, quality control joke.

 

Mine still sits in the closet. I installed the newest firmware. I hooked it up and fired up A-10C. It was suppose to be plug and play....I would say more than half the controls did not operate....I unplugged it and put it in the closet....I guess it been about 2-3 years. I thought after all the hype and money spent I was not about to spend time configuring this item.

 

I have purchased numerous other Hotas controls and got pretty much what I had thought and did not feel like I got ripped off....the warthog by tm....I still wince when I think about it.

 

When my coolie switch failed after a few months of use, TM shipped me a new coolie switch for free. When that one didn't work, TM shipped me another one for free. When that didn't work TM RMAed the entire throttle. When it came back, the coolie worked, but the throttles would not calibrate correctly. TM had me try and run a factory calibration and when that didn't work, They RMAed the RMAed throttle, and sent me a good one that has worked perfectly to this day.

 

When I mentioned that shipping the unit was a rather significant expense for me, They took my shipping receipts and cut me a check for the cost of mailing the broken units back to them.

 

This is what I call a the textbook definition of how to handle a customer service issue.

 

It sounds like you may have had a blank TARGET profile enabled. That would have the effect of linking the stick and throttle into a single USB HID instead of two. When you link them like that you no longer have enough directX inputs for all the buttons you have. Games will not see a lot of the buttons and switches on the base of the throttle, until you assign a command to that button in the TARGET profile. This is exactly why people do not use TARGET unless they absolutely have to, usually because a game doesn't support multiple directinput devices.

 

DCS sees multiple joysticks and throttles just fine, and has buil tin defaults for the warthog joystick and throttle, but it does not have any built in presets for a warthog with a TARGET profile enabled.

 

Maybe it's time you take it out of the closet and give it a second chance? :dunno:

[Headwarp]

Sad and a little bit annoying that you have to resort to such measures to get your stick to function properly.

 

Wholeheartedly agree. Especially at this price point.. you'd expect everything to be perfect. Considering the fate of all of my saitek gear which failed or broke within 3 years of purchase, and only moderate use until the start of this year, in 10 years when I am reapplying grease to the gimbal, I will probably be thanking myself for the money saved. Sure, I may have replaced some parts by then. But no plastic will come with screws when I take them out, that's for sure. So unless VKB gets as big as TM, I'll probably still be using this guy in a decade.